12V battery - thoughts on variability of the issue

[LBX2024]

I'm expecting my LBX in December and have been following the threads about the 12V Battery issues on here and on FB, and wondering why some people seem to have issues while others (with apparently similar usage patterns and common sense being applied re not drawing power while not in Ready mode) do not.

I've noted the (welcome - thank you) information around the background drain on the Battery when the car is locked and unused.  But the results that people are seeing do not seem to reflect this consistently, with many instances being reported where the Battery seems to have failed long before the period that the drain would have implied (while others do not experience this).

I saw a comment about batteries degrading which sent me off into Google to look at what happens when lead acid batteries are fully discharged, and then (worse) left in that state.  Not good news - potentially permanent damage, perhaps to the point of no repair.

To my theory about the variability that is being seen.  I've seen reports of people having issues with their car after e.g. a service.  I've seen reports of dealers not warning people about needing to be in Ready mode while playing with settings, lock the car while washing it, etc.  So what are the chances that some cars have batteries that have been damaged by being drained to flat (possibly more than once) before they are ever delivered?  This would explain why some seem to be okay and others not.

And if that it something which resonates with people on here - anyone know how we can check on the health of the Battery on collection, or very soon thereafter?  Deliberately running it to zero to see how long that takes seems more than a little self defeating!

Any thoughts anyone?  Or am I barking?  I don't pretend any great understanding of this stuff, just putting two and two together and quite possibly making five...

[Herbie]

Some good observations and questions there Red.

The problem is that, by its very nature, it's very difficult to make accurate comparisons because there are so many variables. Things like temperature, how many times it's been flattened, how long it was left in a discharged state etc., etc., will all take their toll on the Battery.

1 hour ago, LBX2024 said:

anyone know how we can check on the health of the battery on collection, or very soon thereafter? 

There is a good test that can show the state of the Battery but you'd have to get the car home to do it, because to be accurate it needs to be charged up first. You'll need to buy a load tester or drop tester as they're sometimes known, like this one from Amazon. I'd stay away from the modern digital ones because they measure various parameters and then calculate what they think the result should be. They don't actually do a real load test at all and in my opinion, there's no substitute for a real test.

So, charge the Battery up using a proper charger (not a trickle charger), then run the drop test and the tester will indicate the true state of the Battery.

[Tel]

Red,

Ensure you get a good H/Over even if it means you asking the majority of Questions.

The LBX is the latest Lexus Hybrid but I have found it no different to my previous Hybrids,

Tel

[ikarian999]

On 5/11/2024 at 9:40 ΠΜ, Tel said:

Κόκκινος,

Βεβαιωθείτε ότι έχετε ένα καλό H/Over ακόμα κι αν αυτό σημαίνει ότι κάνετε τις περισσότερες ερωτήσεις.

Το LBX είναι το πιο πρόσφατο Lexus Hybrid, αλλά δεν το βρήκα διαφορετικό από τα προηγούμενα υβριδικά μου,

Τηλ

 

On 3/11/2024 at 10:59 ΜΜ, LBX2024 said:

Περιμένω το LBX μου τον Δεκέμβριο και παρακολουθώ τα θέματα σχετικά με τα προβλήματα μπαταρίας 12 V εδώ και στο FB και αναρωτιέμαι γιατί κάποιοι φαίνεται να έχουν προβλήματα ενώ άλλοι (με προφανώς παρόμοια μοτίβα χρήσης και την κοινή λογική που εφαρμόζονται δεν σχεδιάζουν τροφοδοσία ενώ δεν βρίσκεται σε κατάσταση ετοιμότητας) όχι.

Σημείωσα τις πληροφορίες (καλώς ήρθατε - ευχαριστώ) γύρω από την αποστράγγιση του φόντου της μπαταρίας όταν το αυτοκίνητο είναι κλειδωμένο και αχρησιμοποίητο. Αλλά τα αποτελέσματα που βλέπουν οι άνθρωποι δεν φαίνεται να αντικατοπτρίζουν αυτό με συνέπεια, με πολλές περιπτώσεις να αναφέρονται όπου η μπαταρία φαίνεται να έχει αποτύχει πολύ πριν από την περίοδο που θα υπονοούσε η αποστράγγιση (ενώ άλλοι δεν το αντιμετωπίζουν αυτό).

Είδα ένα σχόλιο σχετικά με την υποβάθμιση των μπαταριών, το οποίο με έστειλε στο Google για να δω τι συμβαίνει όταν οι μπαταρίες μολύβδου οξέος είναι πλήρως αποφορτισμένες και μετά (το χειρότερο) αφήνονται σε αυτήν την κατάσταση. Δεν είναι καλά νέα - πιθανώς μόνιμη βλάβη, ίσως σε σημείο μη επισκευής.

Στη θεωρία μου για τη μεταβλητότητα που φαίνεται. Έχω δει αναφορές ανθρώπων που έχουν προβλήματα με το αυτοκίνητό τους μετά από π.χ. ένα σέρβις. Έχω δει αναφορές για αντιπροσώπους που δεν προειδοποιούν τους ανθρώπους ότι πρέπει να είναι σε κατάσταση ετοιμότητας ενώ παίζουν με ρυθμίσεις, να κλειδώνουν το αυτοκίνητο ενώ το πλένουν κ.λπ. Ποιες είναι λοιπόν οι πιθανότητες ορισμένα αυτοκίνητα να έχουν μπαταρίες που έχουν καταστραφεί λόγω της αποστράγγισης (ενδεχομένως περισσότερες από μία φορές) πριν παραδοθούν ποτέ; Αυτό θα εξηγούσε γιατί κάποιοι φαίνεται να είναι εντάξει και άλλοι όχι.

Και αν αυτό είναι κάτι που έχει απήχηση στους ανθρώπους εδώ - ξέρει κανείς πώς μπορούμε να ελέγξουμε την υγεία της μπαταρίας κατά τη συλλογή ή πολύ σύντομα μετά; Το να το μηδενίζεις σκόπιμα για να δεις πόσο χρόνο χρειάζεται φαίνεται κάτι παραπάνω από λίγο αυτοκαταστροφικό!

Καμιά σκέψη κανείς; Ή γαβγίζω; Δεν προσποιούμαι ότι καταλαβαίνω καλά αυτά τα πράγματα, απλά βάζω δύο και δύο μαζί και πιθανότατα να κάνω πέντε...

I bought a hybrid car for the first time in my life. I have seen countless videos but on the forum I saw the possible "problem" with the 12v Battery. So even though the car is a month old (amazing but I'll write my impressions at some point) I periodically charge the Battery from the engine compartment

[Ed the Ted]

14 hours ago, ikarian999 said:

 

I bought a hybrid car for the first time in my life. I have seen countless videos but on the forum I saw the possible "problem" with the 12v battery. So even though the car is a month old (amazing but I'll write my impressions at some point) I periodically charge the battery from the engine compartment

I’m curious to know your technique for charging the 12volt Battery from the engine compartment. These batteries are usually mounted in an inaccessible place within the car. 

Do you connect your charger using the positive connector in the fuse box and ground the earth onto bare metal?

[GMB]

If you have not got the car yet, get the dealer to fit one of these. This is the CTEK one but other manufacturers do them. Under £10.

 

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, Ed the Ted said:

Do you connect your charger using the positive connector in the fuse box and ground the earth onto bare metal?

Yes, that's it.

You can either connect directly to the Battery (wherever it may be) or you can connect via the 'jump start point' in the fuse box in the engine bay.

The black (negative) lead can be connected to any unpainted bare metal nut, bolt, screw or bracket, anywhere in or on the car, whether that be at the front, back, top or bottom.

[Ed the Ted]

1 hour ago, Herbie said:

Yes, that's it.

You can either connect directly to the battery (wherever it may be) or you can connect via the 'jump start point' in the fuse box in the engine bay.

The black (negative) lead can be connected to any unpainted bare metal nut, bolt, screw or bracket, anywhere in or on the car, whether that be at the front, back, top or bottom.

Thank you.....I have the CTEK connector shown in the post prior to your response fitted to my UX 12v Battery which is easily accessible under the rear floor panel and connect my charger to it. We have a 2nd car a 2021 Toyota Yaris and the Battery is under the rear seat cushion making the Battery terminals inaccessible and wondered if l could connect via the "jump start point" in the fuse box in the engine bay and top up the 12v Battery via this route which you have confirmed as plausible. 

I read Spiridons post above that he'd charged his Battery from the engine compartment on his LBX and being similar in design assumed his Battery would not be in the engine bay (and mounted elsewhere like the Yaris) and used the jump start point. I have posted on the Yaris forum.