Lexus Insurance RX450h+ (Gen 5) want an immobilizer

[PeterI]

I've been insured with Lexus Insurance as their quotes weren't too far from everyone else and they use OEM parts and Lexus garages for repairs.

When I bought my RX450h+ I was told via their chat system as I swapped insurance from my gen 4 RX I wouldn't need an immobilizer (as I expeced since the CANBUS theft issue is solved by encryption). I got an email shortly after the policy going live saying that I would need to fit an immobilizer. After a few back and forth phone calls the end result is that they are insisting....

As a result I've cancelled my policy with them and gone over to Aviva who are happy to insure the RX450h+ without me needing an immobilizer, I'm reluctant on a brand new car as I'm a little unhappy with folks messing with the wiring and creating a Battery drain

I'm wondering if anyone else with a RX450h+ has insurance with Lexus Insurance and been asked to fit an immobilizer? My suspicion is that as the policy was "copied" from the gen 4 documents the "needs an immobilizer" flag got copied over rather than being reset and I'd love to know.

(My next task is probably getting the NCD documentation which is probably going to be painful.... sigh...)

[Xez]

Hi, is Lexus insurance requiring you to get a physical immobiliser like a steering wheel lock? Only when I look at the brochure (extract below) it shows all RXs come with a Thatcham approved Category 1 alarm and immobiliser system. 

[Ken R]

I'm also insured with Aviva and have been for a few years now. Always competitive. 

Can't comment on Lexus Insurance other than they refused to give me cover on my RX450h+! Have max no claims, drive up to 12000 miles per annum, Social Domestic and pleasure, two named drivers.

Thatcham approved alarm and immobiliser should be sufficient for them to continue your cover.

[PeterI]

It seems like Lexus insurance don't want my business too. Insisting on adding a cat 2 Thatcham immobilizer seems a bit off, time for a letter to Lexus HQ I feel it's not "providing the best possible customer ownership experience" as advertised on the Lexus website.

I'm surprised they didn't want to insure you Ken, unless the kingdom is now a hot bed of car thefts, and yes I agree on the OEM fitted security, so far the only security issue with the new toyota / lexus system I've seen requires access to the security module after digging through the dash and reprogramming a new key.

[PeterI]

22 hours ago, Xez said:

Hi, is Lexus insurance requiring you to get a physical immobiliser like a steering wheel lock? Only when I look at the brochure (extract below) it shows all RXs come with a Thatcham approved Category 1 alarm and immobiliser system.

For me they were insisting on a cat 2 immobilizer with this wording from the email:
 

Quote

Please provide a copy of the installation certificate confirming a secondary Thatcham Category 2 Electronic Immobiliser, or a Tracking and Aftermarket Security System Association (TASSA) approved immobiliser has been installed to your vehicle by an installer approved by the device manufacturer.

With links to both websites, when I swapped vehicles I was told in a chat message that I didn't need an immobilizer on a Gen5 RX and to be honest I suspect a database cockup that no-one wants to fix and "tell the customer to fit an immobilizer" is the easier solution. I had an issue at renewal since the immobilzer fitted to my Gen 4 RX by Lexus Insurance wasn't noted in the system, I have a feeling the company running the insurance stuff on Lexus behalf has changed and the IT infrastructure hasn't really caught up.

[Mukesh Sejpal]

Please provide a copy of the installation certificate confirming a secondary Thatcham Category 2 Electronic Immobiliser, or a Tracking and Aftermarket Security System Association (TASSA) approved immobiliser has been installed to your vehicle by an installer approved by the device manufacturer.

I am owner of Lexus RX450h Luxury and last year my insurers (Direct Line) declined to renew cover. Many other insurers were not willing to offer cover. I spoke to Lexus Hatfield and they suggested speak to Lexus Insurance. I was shocked to be told that unless the factory fitted immobiliser was upgraded by installing a secondary Thatcham Category 2 unit (see above) they would not offer insurance. When I asked whether the factory fitted immobiliser was therefore unfit for its purpose they declined to answer. When I called Lexus Hatfield and spoke to a Customer Team member she refused to answer and cut me off. Shocking behaviour from a reputable manufacturer! 

 

 

[steve2006]

Their refusal to answer the question posed and their requirement to have a Cat 2 system would certainly suggest that the current factory system is not therefore fit for purpose.

Have a look at the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which amongst other things requires goods or services purchased by a consumer to be “Fit for purpose”

If, as in this case the factory system is apparently not you surely have a legal claim against the retailer i.e. Lexus UK under the act.

If you have legal cover on either your car or house insurance it may be worth asking them for advice. It may take a court case to get results here but if you were to win it then sets a precedent in law which in turn may help many other owners in the same situation.

[Toyota Owner]

The factory fitted security system is Thatcham Cat 1 - unfortunately since it was certified newer theft methods now mean its easily beatable from outside the vehicle. 

Lexus do now offer free protection plates for RX & a Thatcham Cat S7 tracker device FOC to affected vehicles including a 3 year free subscription. 

[PDM]

13 minutes ago, Toyota Owner said:

The factory fitted security system is Thatcham Cat 1 - unfortunately since it was certified newer theft methods now mean its easily beatable from outside the vehicle. 

Lexus do now offer free protection plates for RX & a Thatcham Cat S7 tracker device FOC to affected vehicles including a 3 year free subscription. 

Hi Lee, are you sure that the Gen 5 RX security has also been compromised?  The Gen 4 unfortunately has the well known CANbus exploit but do you think/know the Gen 5 is now vulnerable in some way too?

[steve2006]

26 minutes ago, Toyota Owner said:

The factory fitted security system is Thatcham Cat 1 - unfortunately since it was certified newer theft methods now mean its easily beatable from outside the vehicle. 

Lexus do now offer free protection plates for RX & a Thatcham Cat S7 tracker device FOC to affected vehicles including a 3 year free subscription. 

Fair enough but if you can’t still get the car insured all it will be is a driveway ornament with a better chance of it still being there each morning, at least you can get cover for your garden gnomes!
 

Going on previous posts regarding the security updates I think “offer” may be the wrong word when dealers either tend to avoid the issue or claim to know nothing about it. Have all owners of affected vehicles been contacted by Lexus UK to notify them of the offer or has a recall been announced?

[Toyota Owner]

21 minutes ago, PDM said:

Hi Lee, are you sure that the Gen 5 RX security has also been compromised?  The Gen 4 unfortunately has the well known CANbus exploit but do you think/know the Gen 5 is now vulnerable in some way too?

I never mentioned Gen 5 RX. 

[Toyota Owner]

2 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

Fair enough but if you can’t still get the car insured all it will be is a driveway ornament with a better chance of it still being there each morning, at least you can get cover for your garden gnomes!
 

Going on previous posts regarding the security updates I think “offer” may be the wrong word when dealers either tend to avoid the issue or claim to know nothing about it. Have all owners of affected vehicles been contacted by Lexus UK to notify them of the offer or has a recall been announced?

Its not eligible to qualify for a recall under DVSA regulations so Lexus cannot access the DVLA records to contact vehicle owners. 

[steve2006]

Has a TSB been raised or does that just relate to safety issues?

[Toyota Owner]

24 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

Has a TSB been raised or does that just relate to safety issues?

TSB or Technical Service Bulletin isn't just related to safety issues.

Toyota / Lexus now very protective over vehicle security information on the technical portal. 

[Sybaris]

Nothing is perfect,  I suspect with enough time and resource, the Gen 5 will be exploited and vulnerabilities found

[Ken R]

4 hours ago, Sybaris said:

Nothing is perfect,  I suspect with enough time and resource, the Gen 5 will be exploited and vulnerabilities found

I guess that will be the same across all manufacturers.