uh oh - she's whining . . . . . .

[cruisermark]

So my LS430 with 167k miles has started to make a whining noise. The noise is present on cold started and gets better as the engine warms - and almost goes away eventually. The noise pitch increases with engine revs. It also gets louder when turning the steering when driving and stationary. The steering also feels slightly heavier.

So with a bit of googling I am LED to believe its the power steering pump failing? or it could be the reservoir at fault - a partially blocked filter on the flow pipe?

Do you guys agree? 

There power steering pumps are not known for failing . . . .

So I guess I'm asking is should I buy a fit a pump or start with the reservoir

many thanks in advance

 

[donkmeister]

Possibly teaching your grandmother to suck eggs but... Have you checked the steering fluid level is correct? Low fluid causes noisy PAS too.

ETA obviously if the fluid is low you have a leak somewhere! 

[Malc1]

16 minutes ago, donkmeister said:

Possibly teaching your grandmother to suck eggs but... Have you checked the steering fluid level is correct? Low fluid causes noisy PAS too.

ETA obviously if the fluid is low you have a leak somewhere! 

For sure check and monitor the reservoir level 🤞

Or could there be some prone evaporation over the years ? 

I have experienced this over the decades and never noticed even any perception of a leak 🤔

Malc 

[donkmeister]

Just another thought to rule out the cheaper/easier possibilities: see if the noise reduces temporarily when you spray the serpentine belt with water. If so then could just be the belt (belt gets loaded up when the pump does too).

Could also try detensioning (crank the tensioner anticlockwise with a socket and look for holes now lining up where you can jam a drift to hold it in the detension position) or removing the serpentine belt altogether and seeing if any of the pulleys have excessive play.

[BigBoomer]

Definitely check the PS fluid level, but make sure that you remove the cap and put a stick in there to gauge the depth.
The reservoir gets stained so you can't see the actual fluid level.
 

[cruisermark]

Hi Guys

I panicked a bit and was thinking of worst case scenarios (above) and did'nt think of simpler checks.

So today I have check the fluid and it is at max - it does appear black though and could do with a change - I check the outlets underneath and could'nt see any leaks

So next step is to check the belts, remove the reservoir and check for blockage.

I also intend to change the fluid

Pump is last resert

Drove her today and still noisy

[steve2006]

The LS PS pumps are built to last, the main shaft bearing is massive ( the internal diameter of the pump body and the impeller is all metal construction with stainless steel fin inserts.

The main bearing is not lubricated by the fluid as there is an oil seal between it and the fluid pump section.

I would firstly suggest a couple of fluid changes ( turkey baster helps remove the fluid from the reservoir) and then fully bleed the system by turning the steering lock to lock a few times ( put a glossy magazine under each tyre to make it easier)

[cruisermark]

2 hours ago, steve2006 said:

The LS PS pumps are built to last, the main shaft bearing is massive ( the internal diameter of the pump body and the impeller is all metal construction with stainless steel fin inserts.

The main bearing is not lubricated by the fluid as there is an oil seal between it and the fluid pump section.

I would firstly suggest a couple of fluid changes ( turkey baster helps remove the fluid from the reservoir) and then fully bleed the system by turning the steering lock to lock a few times ( put a glossy magazine under each tyre to make it easier)

I have had a look and realised what I thought was fluid level was in fact old staining on the reservoir - I have added a little bit of dexron but cannot really tell the level.

I am going to drain the reservoir, remove and attempt to clean it - this will also allow me to inspect for debris or blockage.

Its reassuring to know the pumps are robust.

Will keep you posted

[cruisermark]

So after topping up the fluid I can confirm the noise has gone away and he steering is all smooth.

The inlet and outlet on the reservoir is dry and I have'nt noticed any patches below to indicate a leak so will be keeping an eye on the fluid.

Weather permitting I do still need to clean the reservoir  as at the moment I canot see the level

[Malc1]

When I took delivery of my 91 Mk1 last August 23 there too was a noticeable “ drag - stiffness” slight “ heaviness” to the steering …….. I just topped up the reservoir a smidgen to a more correct level on the reservoir dipstick …….. it solved the issue instantly ……. It really was just a smidgen tiny amount I put in ……. made that world of difference and instantly ……. thankfully 😅 

Malc 

[donkmeister]

Result!

PAS leaks can be hard to track down, and sometimes are so slow as to be not worth fixing. Controversial perhaps, but if it's a very slow weep of fluid then you'd use more volume of brake cleaner and so on in the process of replacing than the system would ever leak fluid.

[BigBoomer]

On 9/28/2024 at 4:57 PM, cruisermark said:

So after topping up the fluid I can confirm the noise has gone away and he steering is all smooth.

The inlet and outlet on the reservoir is dry and I have'nt noticed any patches below to indicate a leak so will be keeping an eye on the fluid.

Weather permitting I do still need to clean the reservoir  as at the moment I canot see the level

Excellent. 
Don't bother trying to clean the reservoir. It won't clean up because it's stained by the fluid. 
I understand that a new reservoir can be had pretty cheaply (44360-22170, £100 on eBay) and is simple to fit.
In the meantime you can judge the level with a makeshift dipstick (pencil? bit of wooden dowel?).

[steve2006]

The LS400s had a metal reservoir so I would assume that was the reason why the cap had an integrated dip stick.The LS430 has a plastic reservoir so no dipstick required as you can see the level until of course it gets stained.

[Razor61]

5 hours ago, BigBoomer said:

Don't bother trying to clean the reservoir. It won't clean up because it's stained by the fluid. 
I understand that a new reservoir can be had pretty cheaply (44360-22170, £100 on eBay) and is simple to fit.

And maybe worth replacing the power steering fluid at the same time, I'll bet the existing fluid isn't like new anymore 😉

 

[cruisermark]

So I do have a leak - the whine returned yesterday - the return pipe infront of the radiator is leaking

A brief search reveals Rock Auto to be the cheapest - anyone know any other suppliers I can check?

RockAuto

Does anyone know how involved the job is?

[Malc1]

that looks a very similar set-up to my  N  reg Ls400 down there ............  if it is then it's simply a leaking water pipe that's replaceable with ordinary copper tubing, albeit an odd diameter size .  if that's all it is ............ just a water cooling pipe 

Happened to me a few years ago now and the Lexus replacement part was about £80/100 then BUT it's just a run of copper tube  .  cost about £2.50 in tube  plus someone's an hour labour 

Maybe I’ve got that wrong about being a water pipe tho’   Bit too teccy for me tbh 

 

Malc

[BigBoomer]

That is one of the two Power Steering Fluid coolers.
It's really just a U shaped piece of metal pipe in front of the radiator but that's enough to keep the PS fluid cool.
There is one between the Pump and the Rack, and the return one between the Rack and Reservoir.
https://lexus-europe.epc-data.com/ls430/ucf30r/5111/chassis/4503/?color=8P8&trim

[Malc1]

17 hours ago, Malc1 said:

that looks a very similar set-up to my  N  reg Ls400 down there ............  if it is then it's simply a leaking water pipe that's replaceable with ordinary copper tubing, albeit an odd diameter size .  if that's all it is ............ just a water cooling pipe 

Happened to me a few years ago now and the Lexus replacement part was about £80/100 then BUT it's just a run of copper tube  .  cost about £2.50 in tube  plus someone's an hour labour 

Maybe I’ve got that wrong about being a water pipe tho’   Bit too teccy for me tbh 

 

Malc

Please everyone, just read Power Steering Fluid pipe in place of my irreverent " water " wordage   .  all else was the same 👍

Thank you 

Malc

[cruisermark]

I am leaning towards the Rock Auto replacement

[Malc1]

6 minutes ago, cruisermark said:

I am leaning towards the Rock Auto replacement

But it's under a fiver for the length of copper tube .......  assuming that's the issue !

Malc

[Razor61]

20 hours ago, cruisermark said:

Does anyone know how involved the job is?

This Car Care Nut video on YouTube may help, he's replacing the complete power steering system including the pump, he removes the radiator (for more room to remove the pump) and loosens the condenser so the pipework can be taken out.
 

 

[cruisermark]

Update: Ordered Power Steering Cooler Pipe from Rock Auto on Thursday and it arrived today via Fedex - all fitted and back to normal - straight forward swap

Below are pictures of the old and new pipe

Rock Auto speed of delivery was amazing ! - I ordered oil for my car on the same day and both arrived today

 

[Malc1]

Can you share the price delivered ? 

Malc 

[cruisermark]