2006 400H looking at series 4 (2020+) or series 5 (2023)

[06_400_h_se]

Hi all,

I'm starting to look at replacing my 2006 RX400h in the next 6 months or so with a newer model. I don't really have any issues with the current car and it's still like new, but I think in the next 12 months or so, it's time too move on. I'm currently looking at getting a late series 4 (post 2020) so I at least have apple connectivity, but one thing I noticed is the insurance costs on these is significantly more than a series 5 (2023+), even though the latter would cost around 50% more. 

That aside, the series 5 does look much improved over the series 4 (although either is going to be much improved over my current car). It also looks like the series 5 has plug-in EV capability, albeit limited. But on the downside it seems to be a 4 cyl engine vs the V6 on the series 4.

Any thoughts on which is the better way to go all things considered? Is the extra ~15-20k worth it for the series 5?

Pros/cons as I see it:

series 4: Cheaper to buy, V6, L option (would be useful for me, but not essential)

Series 5: Cheaper to run, better interior ?, more full electric range 

Thanks. 

[ColinBarber]

Series 5 cannot be easily stolen, series 4 is an insurance nightmare even though Lexus is starting to mitigate the theft issue.

Given that the RX has grown with each iteration, you might want to look at a current generation NX (which the same 450h+ plug-in drivetrain as the RX) which is more comparable size wise with the 400h.

[Malc1]

3 hours ago, 06_400_h_se said:

Hi all,

I'm starting to look at replacing my 2006 RX400h in the next 6 months or so with a newer model. I don't really have any issues with the current car and it's still like new, but I think in the next 12 months or so, it's time too move on. I'm currently looking at getting a late series 4 (post 2020) so I at least have Apple connectivity, but one thing I noticed is the insurance costs on these is significantly more than a series 5 (2023+), even though the latter would cost around 50% more. 

That aside, the series 5 does look much improved over the series 4 (although either is going to be much improved over my current car). It also looks like the series 5 has plug-in EV capability, albeit limited. But on the downside it seems to be a 4 cyl engine vs the V6 on the series 4.

Any thoughts on which is the better way to go all things considered? Is the extra ~15-20k worth it for the series 5?

Pros/cons as I see it:

series 4: Cheaper to buy, V6, L option (would be useful for me, but not essential)

Series 5: Cheaper to run, better interior ?, more full electric range 

Thanks. 

So then Mr Lexus ……… what’s the burning need for you to change your existing car ?

Your opening gambit, the need for apple connectivity ….. a NEED ? 

And fulfilling this you’re opening yourself up to …….
,…… Greater capacity for electronic glitches, potential for theft  ? 

Spending that money burning that hole in your pocket maybe 🤔

Are you really expecting issues with your existing ……. Or just have that itch to scratch to change ? 

Rationality should play a role here ……. maybe 🤣 

Malc 

 

[06_400_h_se]

12 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

So then Mr Lexus ……… what’s the burning need for you to change your existing car ?

Your opening gambit, the need for Apple connectivity ….. a NEED ? 

And fulfilling this you’re opening yourself up to …….
,…… Greater capacity for electronic glitches, potential for theft  ? 

Spending that money burning that hole in your pocket maybe 🤔

Are you really expecting issues with your existing ……. Or just have that itch to scratch to change ? 

Rationality should play a role here ……. maybe 🤣 

Malc 

 

🙂 I agree completely. There is pressure coming from "the other driver". My view is that the car is still as good as brand new, but apparently the ICE is no good. My other option is to re-invest in the current car. A good new ICE system would be about 2k but that is just a few months' depreciation on a newer model. The only other justification I really have is better MPG. I get around mid to low 20s, but again that's hardly the biggest cost of ownership especially on low mileage. I've also had the cat stolen already and gone with straight through (there are two more cats on the manifold) - don't really want to go through that again and not sure that's an option on the newer ones.. so yes lots of downsides if you are truly rational. But who is when it comes to cars!?

[06_400_h_se]

28 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Series 5 cannot be easily stolen, series 4 is an insurance nightmare even though Lexus is starting to mitigate the theft issue.

Given that the RX has grown with each iteration, you might want to look at a current generation NX (which the same 450h+ plug-in drivetrain as the RX) which is more comparable size wise with the 400h.

I hadn't even considered the NX, thank you I will take a look.

[Trefor]

Or save £20k and add an Android head unit and get all the connectivity you need. Works great (wireless Android Auto in my case, but Carplay also supported). See my recent post on this.

[Malc1]

16 minutes ago, 06_400_h_se said:

But who is when it comes to cars!?

Possibly boring 'ol little me 😂

I would say if a £2k   " investment "   in new ICE solves the crisis then I know which way I'd be going .....  jeez that's pssibly far less than any capital loss you'll incur the first month of a changeover 

[ColinBarber]

41 minutes ago, 06_400_h_se said:

I've also had the cat stolen already and gone with straight through (there are two more cats on the manifold) - don't really want to go through that again and not sure that's an option on the newer ones

This isn't really a concern with newer vehicles. The cat stealing craze seems to have died down, and newer models use cats with less precious metals in them so they aren't as valuable. For the current RX and NX, there is no cat underneath the vehicle as there is now a Gasoline Particulate Filter in that location, with the only cats in the manifold downpipes which are difficult to get to. 

[Trefor]

19 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Possibly boring 'ol little me 😂

I would say if a £2k   " investment "   in new ICE solves the crisis then I know which way I'd be going .....  jeez that's pssibly far less than any capital loss you'll incur the first month of a changeover 

More like £250 for a decent head unit on Ali Express (get the more expensive ones with more RAM and better Android version).

 

[DAN@ADRIAN FLUX]

Hi.

If you need any help with insurance at all then please feel free to drop me a line.

Regards,

Dan.

[GSLV6]

I will throw my tuppenceworth in here having owned three generations of Lexus vehicles and disagree that they've "got better with every iteration" because that's patently untrue without proper context. 

If you want bombproof reliability and possibly the best built RX, the earlier models from 3rd to 4th gen are built like tanks albeit with a few issues, but these are now well known about and documented, and you can plan for those things to keep them going. Do they handle as well as later ones or give as refined a ride?  Not really.   If better toys is the pre-requisite and you want the best driving most comfortable ones, I'd argue in favour of a post facelift 4th gen, insurance issues to one side. 

Anything can be stolen, and anything can be made harder to steal, so the only fly in the ointment is the insurance costs.  It's not so bad in lower risk areas and for later 4th gen cars.   I'd argue all day long that they are the "best" RX's going because they 1) retain the best iteration of the stunningly reliable and long lived powerful and buttery smooth 3.5V6 petrol engine;  2) give (imho) the most refined ride and 3) are (I think) better finished internally with I think higher quality interiors to the newer models. 

They also don't rely (thankfully) on cheap to manufacture touchscreens to do most of the customising and use of electronics and retain buttons for most things, just using less cost cutting, unlike 5th gen models where it's evident in several areas within the cabins.  They (4th gen)  are the last of the true luxury Lexus RX's, 5th gen being made cheaper to produce and highlight where lexus are going.  They are planning to "downgrade" Lexus in the Toyota brand to being no longer their premium luxury brand as that is now reserved for their next high end models under a different Toyota brand, and have been working towards this for some years, with Lexus cars being made ever more mainstream.

No longer are 12 year apprenticeships by master craftsmen called for making the hand stitched seats..these are now done in the main factory using "inferior" leather substitutes and that unfortunately goes for the 4th gen as well as the 5th. 

In that respect, you'd be better off saving cash and buying a decent late generation top spec Toyota model which are really not that far behind many Lexus cars in refinement or internal finish.  There are other worthy mentions here too with up to date "ICE" including Mazda's own CX range which are really rather good and much cheaper than the Lexus.

If only a Lexus will do, then a 21/22 plate RX will tick all of your boxes and you'll save ££££'s over a 5th gen.  By the 4th gen, the top tier models (F-Sport and Takumi) had handling well sorted and engines optimised for better power and economy, combined with pretty sumptuous interiors.

 

 

[ColinBarber]

20 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

Anything can be stolen, and anything can be made harder to steal, so the only fly in the ointment is the insurance costs.  It's not so bad in lower risk areas and for later 4th gen cars.

As nice as the Series 4 RX is, the OP is in London. I wouldn't dream of recommending one in that location. You can spend all you want on trackers and other anti-theft devices but they won't stop a thief trying to steal it and doing ££££ of damage at each attempt. Until Lexus do a compulsory fix where it then becomes a certainty that each RX can no longer be stolen with a simple CAN bus attack (which they don't appear to have any intention of doing), then unfortunately insurance premiums will remain sky high.

[javadude]

My 2008 RX400h was really nice. I changed to a 2015 NX300h and it was similar sized. The newer RX is bigger (and wouldn't fit in our garage). NX had newer tech than the RX400h and was nicer in many respects. Handling was better round corners but a hit harsh after the RX. Seats were still good but not as comfortable as the RX. Comfort: RX won, Toys: NX won.

[Malc1]

and the “  Toys NX Won “  cost you ……..,, £££ for the changeover ?? 
Malc 

[GSLV6]

On 9/24/2024 at 9:48 PM, ColinBarber said:

As nice as the Series 4 RX is, the OP is in London. I wouldn't dream of recommending one in that location. You can spend all you want on trackers and other anti-theft devices but they won't stop a thief trying to steal it and doing ££££ of damage at each attempt. Until Lexus do a compulsory fix where it then becomes a certainty that each RX can no longer be stolen with a simple CAN bus attack (which they don't appear to have any intention of doing), then unfortunately insurance premiums will remain sky high.

Good point, in which case a low miles F-Sport 3rd gen with all the extras might be the way to go...Some very good ones with under 60K miles are around for between  £15K and £19K on late 2014 or 2015 plates