Battery Died and AA has advised a "Battery Maintainer"

[suedenim]

We got into the car last night and everything died so we couldn't even open the doors, but the fire brigade found a way to let us out....

thank goodness for Utube.

We do short, infrequent journeys and leave the car in the street; AA man got the car going and suggested we buy a Battery maintainer which plugs into the cigarette lighter. 

In total ignorance, I've found CTEK CONNECT CIG PLUG and MXS 5.0 feel like what we need and would be really grateful for advice, please.

My research says "Please note that the socket must be powered even when ignition is in the ‘Off’ position."

Is this the case with the LBX? It is still dark so I haven't even been able to hunt for the lighter socket yet.

AA man suggested I take it to Halfords but I see that they don't have the adapter in stock.

We had loved the car and all the gimmicks but really regret buying it now and are scared this will happen again.

Thanks so much for your time and advice.

 

[EEH]

Hi Elaine.

Common across most hybrids due to the small 12v Battery. A better option would be to look for a small solar charger which you can plug into the OBD port or as my dealership did, wired it directly to my 12v Battery with an extension cable which looks awful but, I have had my car for 6 weeks now with around 370km done, and do very little driving and all is fine. I would explore this option as well

[Goodplan53]

As with all hybrids, Elaine, it's advisable to put the car into 'Ready' mode (start the 'engine' basically) whenever you open the doors or sit waiting in the car, even for a few minutes.  This will avoid the tiny 12V Battery from being drained.  It is only designed to start the onboard computer systems, and will drain quickly if you run any accessories from it. 

Whereas the traction Battery will keep the 12V Battery charged in Ready mode and will itself get topped up from the petrol motor.

Forgive my non-technical explanation, but that's my understanding.  Hope you get it sorted.

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, suedenim said:

We got into the car last night and everything died so we couldn't even open the doors

That's poor from your dealer if they didn't explain how to operate the doors in your handover.

 

4 hours ago, suedenim said:

Is this the case with the LBX? It is still dark so I haven't even been able to hunt for the lighter socket yet.

There should be one in the centre console and another in the boot. However, they do need the ignition to be turned on so they won't be of use to you.

 

4 hours ago, suedenim said:

I've found CTEK CONNECT CIG PLUG and MXS 5.0 feel like what we need and would be really grateful for advice, please.

This is a Battery charger - not sure if you would be able to charge your Battery for an hour or so with wires trailing across the pavement? As above, you may be better off with a solar charger (although it isn't going to be that useful in winter), or just carry a power pack that will enable you to get the car going again if the Battery were to go flat. e.g. 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/jump-starters/noco-gb20-500a-jump-starter-721880.html

(cheaper alternatives are available on amazon etc.).

 

 

I would possibly consider turning off smart enter/exit and use the key fob buttons to lock/unlock the vehicle which will save a bit of Battery drain.

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

1 hour ago, Goodplan53 said:

As with all hybrids, Elaine, it's advisable to put the car into 'Ready' mode (start the 'engine' basically) whenever you open the doors or sit waiting in the car, even for a few minutes.  This will avoid the tiny 12V battery from being drained.  It is only designed to start the onboard computer systems, and will drain quickly if you run any accessories from it. 

Whereas the traction battery will keep the 12V battery charged in Ready mode and will itself get topped up from the petrol motor.

Forgive my non-technical explanation, but that's my understanding.  Hope you get it sorted.

Wee Tip Tim.. If You don,t Need to Switch your Auto interior lights On Keep them switched Off.. Conserves Voltage on 12v Battery..Buy A DB2  Tracker from Rewire Security Not Only Does it monitor Your Car 24/7 But It Gives you daily Updates on the State of your 12v AND Hybrid Battery.. Best Gadget I Have EVER Bought..!!!

[suedenim]

Really grateful to you all for the really helpful information.

Much to consider - won't bother with Halford's for now and will have to wait till Monday to

speak to Lexus as only sales staff are in today.

I'll keep checking in here, hoping someone else has something to add and also keep you updated.

Thanks very much

 

[Spock66]

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

That's poor from your dealer if they didn't explain how to operate the doors in your handover.

Surely that should be clearly labelled in the car, what if the car is submerged or on fire.

[S.H.]

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

That's poor from your dealer if they didn't explain how to operate the doors in your handover.

 

There should be one in the centre console and another in the boot. However, they do need the ignition to be turned on so they won't be of use to you.

 

This is a battery charger - not sure if you would be able to charge your battery for an hour or so with wires trailing across the pavement? As above, you may be better off with a solar charger (although it isn't going to be that useful in winter), or just carry a power pack that will enable you to get the car going again if the battery were to go flat. e.g. 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/jump-starters/noco-gb20-500a-jump-starter-721880.html

(cheaper alternatives are available on Amazon etc.).

 

 

I would possibly consider turning off smart enter/exit and use the key fob buttons to lock/unlock the vehicle which will save a bit of battery drain.

I took off all my smart mods also. I got sick when washing the car then it was always lock unlock..... + it is also a theft security coz the car is not always scanning for signal.

P.S. I use smart charger and connected a plug from the Battery to the floor with fuse and the cable of the C-tek is so thin that I can close the trunk without harming the seal, but then I got a garage.   P.S. READ THE MANUAL and then you know how the system works unfortunately Toyota/Lexus have not yet grown up... some manufacturers have a system that when the small Battery gets low it got a small charge from the hybrid Battery.

[stepppy]

12 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

Surely that should be clearly labelled in the car, what if the car is submerged or on fire.

There are actually removable stickers on the internal releases that show how to pull them in the normal electric operation does not work. I took them off my NX once I got home as I found them unsightly. 

[Alan Salisbury]

What a truly awful experience!  Having spent probably upwards of £30k on a brand new car, no-one should be put in this position.  This 12v issue has been extensively discussed elsewhere in this forum and while I understand all the ‘work-arounds’ that people have offered, the fact remains that you should not have to buy all sorts of equipment, disable facilities and put your new car on charge just to make sure it works next day!

Given all the whizz-bang technology in this car, surely Lexus could have designed the system so that the the traction Battery took over the duties of the 12volt Battery if the latter’s voltage dropped below a certain figure. At the very least they should have included a means of checking the state of charge of said Battery - after all it keeps telling us how much charge there is in the traction Battery.

Sorry to waffle on about this but I feel strongly that there is little to no information about this either pre or post sale from dealers.  The little I know about it has been gleaned from these pages.

[Herbie]

7 hours ago, suedenim said:

We got into the car last night and everything died so we couldn't even open the doors, but the fire brigade found a way to let us out....

thank goodness for Utube.

We do short, infrequent journeys and leave the car in the street; AA man got the car going and suggested we buy a battery maintainer which plugs into the cigarette lighter. 

In total ignorance, I've found CTEK CONNECT CIG PLUG and MXS 5.0 feel like what we need and would be really grateful for advice, please.

My research says "Please note that the socket must be powered even when ignition is in the ‘Off’ position."

Is this the case with the LBX? It is still dark so I haven't even been able to hunt for the lighter socket yet.

AA man suggested I take it to Halfords but I see that they don't have the adapter in stock.

We had loved the car and all the gimmicks but really regret buying it now and are scared this will happen again.

Thanks so much for your time and advice.

 

Not having a pop at you Elaine so please don't think that, but all this could have been avoided by simply reading and familiarising yourself with the Owner's Manual.

If the dealership didn't supply one with the car then you can download one free of charge, from here https://www.lexus.co.uk/owners/about-my-lexus/manuals

[Herbie]

5 minutes ago, Alan Salisbury said:

What a truly awful experience!  Having spent probably upwards of £30k on a brand new car, no-one should be put in this position.  This 12v issue has been extensively discussed elsewhere in this forum and while I understand all the ‘work-arounds’ that people have offered, the fact remains that you should not have to buy all sorts of equipment, disable facilities and put your new car on charge just to make sure it works next day!

I mostly agree with that but come on, owners have to take some responsibility because they are failing to do some research and failing to read the Owner's Manual.

If anyone is buying brand new then they have months to prepare for its arrival. I was only buying a used car but from saying, "Yes, I'll have it" to actually picking it up, it spent a week at the dealership being prepped. I used that time to read the manual from cover to cover and was completely familiar with the car even before I owned it.

Even before that, people should be considering if a hybrid car is even for them. There's a huge amount of difference between hybrid and conventional cars and they just are not suitable for some people and their driving style/driving habits. For instance, I wonder how many people realise (before buying the car) that if you run out of petrol then you'll need a minimum of 10-litres to be put in before even attempting to restart, and if you have three failed attempts the hybrid system can lock out and it needs to be transported on a flatbed (definitely not towed) to the dealership (or other hybrid specialist) to be reset?

I wonder how many know that hybrids don't have starter motors or alternators before they buy the car?

26 minutes ago, Alan Salisbury said:

Given all the whizz-bang technology in this car, surely Lexus could have designed the system so that the the traction battery took over the duties of the 12volt battery if the latter’s voltage dropped below a certain figure.

There are cars that do that but it's different technology. Lexus uses two 12V relays as a safety interlock. The 12V Battery has to have enough power to operate the interlock in order to 'get access' to the hybrid system. Given that it's the hybrid system that charges the 12V Battery by means of a DC/DC converter (takes the 288V from the traction Battery and drops it to around 14.4V), it just can't happen. Not enough power to operate the interlock means no hybrid system, which means that it can't charge the 12V Battery.

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

1 hour ago, Herbie said:

Not having a pop at you Elaine so please don't think that, but all this could have been avoided by simply reading and familiarising yourself with the Owner's Manual.

If the dealership didn't supply one with the car then you can download one free of charge, from here https://www.lexus.co.uk/owners/about-my-lexus/manuals

Absolutely Agree Herb Second That..!!!

[dutchie01]

Sorry but i have to disagree. One has to remember that the vast majority of car buyers are not interested in the technical background of the car they are buying. Moreover, if you buy a brandnew Toyota or Lexus you EXPECT it will work, always. Reading a manual is something from the age when cars went blip when you did not follow it. I find it remarkable that Lexus has approved the car for release with this 12v dead Battery problem. I fully understand Elaines disappointment. My brandnew Lexus is dead and now they tell me i had to read the manual like its my fault? It clearly is a Lexus issue nothing else.

[Herbie]

2 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Sorry but i have to disagree. One has to remember that the vast majority of car buyers are not interested in the technical background of the car they are buying. Moreover, if you buy a brandnew Toyota or Lexus you EXPECT it will work, always. Reading a manual is something from the age when cars went blip when you did not follow it. I find it remarkable that Lexus has approved the car for release with this 12v dead battery problem. I fully understand Elaines disappointment. My brandnew Lexus is dead and now they tell me i had to read the manual like its my fault? It clearly is a Lexus issue nothing else.

Disagree all you like Bernard but it won't change my mind.

A hybrid car is just SO very different to a conventional one in so many ways. Even the way you drive it is different (if you want to get the best out of it), let alone the technicalities of it. These cars are basically computers on wheels and you wouldn't dream of buying a new laptop or tower without research first.

Even some people in these very forums have admitted to not knowing that a hybrid doesn't have a starter motor or an alternator for instance. They've been asking for help to fix a problem, saying that they suspect the alternator and then they're completely gobsmacked to be told that it doesn't even have one!

They are attracted to the colour, styling, comfort and other things that we take into account when buying a car, but that's all they're doing - just buying a car. They have no understanding or concept of what "Hybrid" means and how different it is and/or what those differences mean. What makes them think they can just jump in and drive without doing some research, especially on whether a hybrid car will meet their needs and fit in with their driving habits?

To take Elaine's case in point (sorry Elaine, I'm really not having a go at you) she states: "We do short, infrequent journeys" which is complete anathema to a hybrid car.

Of course, we don't know if Elaine did any research beforehand but, without being nasty about it and not having a pop at her, I would hazard a guess that maybe she didn't? If that was the case it would be interesting to know if she would make a different decision or stick to her first choice?

Elaine - you also said:
 

13 hours ago, suedenim said:

We had loved the car and all the gimmicks but really regret buying it now and are scared this will happen again

A very quick and dirty calculation can illustrate the problem.

The capacity of the Battery is measured by the Ah rating on the label. Ah stands for Amp-hours but unfortunately I don't know what the Ah of the Battery in the LBX is, although I think someone mentioned 40Ah. This means it can supply 40Amps for one hour, or 20A for two hours, or 10A for four hours and so on. Now, there's always a draw of power from the Battery even in the middle of the night when both you and the car are asleep. This is to keep alive things like the clock, the radio presets, seat memory and so on, and it usually measures around 50mA to 70mA-ish. That's 0.05A to 0.07A.

If we assume a brand new and fully charged Battery and we also assume the higher of the two figures, ie, 0.07A, we can say:

40Ah divided by 0.07A = 571.4 hours for the Battery to go from fully charged to fully discharged if the car isn't used or kept on a trickle charger. That's just 23.7 days or 3.38 weeks. However, this is the theoretical maximum and you'll not see it in reality. Also, the Battery will not be able to start the car long before it becomes fully discharged, so that will reduce the useable time as well.

[suedenim]

I tried to avoid joining this conversation and am grateful to those who have offered empathy and advice. I can't believe others need me to defend myself. We admit we are ignorant but husband downloaded and studied the 600+ page manual before the car arrived. Also, we've driven hybrids without a problem since 2004 - had one of the first Prius in the country, followed by a Lexus CT200H. One reads the manual to discover the functions etc and though we know of people who find their Battery is flat after it hasn't been driven for weeks, we never imagined our new supercar could create last night's trauma. 

 

[lexuswannabe]

I'm with Suedenim and Dutchie01 on this one. When I buy a car I don't consider it should be routine to buy a solar charger or smart charger just to have the car working properly during "normal" use.

I don't think I should have to remember to put it in ready mode.

I don't think I should have to remember to turn off Smart enter/exit.

Same with switching off Auto interior lights.

If these things are important why doesn't Lexus provide a built in solar charger or a built in "Noco Battery booster".

Call me an idiot if you like, but should a car not be idiot proof? 

Maybe Lexus should say- if you drive your car once a month to church one Kilometer away- then don't buy this car.

And I consider a manual is for finding out about its features and what to do if something goes wrong. Do you read the manual of a courtesy car before you drive it? At 600+ pages you are getting up to War and Peace dimensions.

Or maybe Lexus could just provide a normal  12v Battery like most other cars,

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, suedenim said:

I tried to avoid joining this conversation and am grateful to those who have offered empathy and advice. I can't believe others need me to defend myself. We admit we are ignorant but husband downloaded and studied the 600+ page manual before the car arrived. Also, we've driven hybrids without a problem since 2004 - had one of the first Prius in the country, followed by a Lexus CT200H. One reads the manual to discover the functions etc and though we know of people who find their battery is flat after it hasn't been driven for weeks, we never imagined our new supercar could create last night's trauma. 

 

Well in that case, I unreservedly apologise and wish you well with the car.

[Chas G]

I have a Toyota Yaris Cross which is prone to exactly the same 12 volt Battery issues affecting owners that use the car infrequently. NB what matters is not how often but for how long the car runs or us in ready mode.

Never sit in your car with the radio/ac etc on unless the car is in ready mode or the 12 volt Battery will die. 

You may benefit from reading the posts on the Yaris Cross forum.

The YC solutions which may also be useful on the  LBX:-

1. Leave the car in ready mode for at least an hour every week to charge the 12 volt Battery from the hybrid Battery. The engine will start occasionally to top up the hybrid Battery.

2. Use an intelligent charger like the Ctek 5 which on the yaris cross can be connected under the bonnet to a red capped connection under the bonnet in the fuse box and any earth point or use a permanent connection to the Battery located under the back seat (+ve terminal and earth point) On the YC the door seals are so big and soft they don't nip the cable so I can close the door.

3. Photocell trickle charger but not much use in winter or if you park in a garage.

4. Reduce the load on the 12v Battery when the car is parked eg make sure the dash cam doesn't run 24/7, turn the automatic headlight setting to minimum, check boot light goes off when tailgate is closed etc.

5. Keep a fully charged Battery jump pack in the car. I use a Noco gb20 which must be  accessible from the drivers seat, not in the boot.....on the YC the drivers door is the only door which can be opened when the 12v Battery goes flat. 

6. Fit a BM2 blue tooth Battery monitor, cost about £15, on to 12v  Battery so that you can see when it's below 12v and needs an hour in ready mode or to be driven for at least an hour.

7. Get a Battery voltage monitor which plugs into accessory socket cost about £7. When you get in the car put it in accessory mode and it should show about 12 .3v+. In ready mode it will show the hybrid Battery charging the auxiliary Battery at 14v. Driving the voltage may drop back to about 13v showing Battery is charged.

There are other suggestions on the YC forum which you might find helpful.

[Chas G]

 

Hardys Car Battery Tester - 12V/24V Plug & Go Voltmeter, Lit LCD Display, Easy Readability, Measure and Drop Tester shown below

[kevinc23]

A Bluetooth monitor sounds like a good idea for infrequent winter drives. I can see and remove a couple of pushpins from the rear seat area, but how do you get access to the Battery terminals?

[DaveGoddard]

Once the push pins are removed from the Battery cover (by pushing the center of the pins in until they click) the Battery cover can be prised off (there are two clips at the other end) just pull it off. 

The positive Battery terminal connections are under a red plastic cover held with two clips, a bit fiddly, but it does come off. Be careful as this exposes a live terminal. There is some spare thread on a bolt, so if you can find a nut to fit, it's the ideal fixing point. For the negative there is a bolt in the floor.

I have put a Bluetooth monitor here & the connector that comes with my Ctec charger. 

You will see there is a small box with cover in the Battery cover, there is no back to this & the Ctec plug fits in there nicely, then replace the Battery cover, locating the fixed clips first, then push the center pins in the push pins out, until they click & put push pins into the cover, lastly pushing the center pins back in. 

The Ctec plug can be accessed by removing the small, square cover in the Battery cover for easy charging of the 12v Battery.

I hope this is not too long winded & helps someone, just be careful not to short out the positive terminal.

 

[kevinc23]

Thanks Dave, not sure if I want to attempt all that dismantling on a new car before any issues .

Bought a monitor and leave it in the 12v accessory point in the boot and check that now and again after starting the car. Sitting at 14.3v in ready mode 

[DaveGoddard]

Kevinc23

Having the Battery monitor in the accessory socket is a waste of time, because that socket doesn't become live until the car is in 'Ready' so the only voltage you will read is the charging voltage (14.3v) from the traction Battery.

To check the state of charge of the 12v Battery, you need to have a direct connection to the 12v Battery, either directly on the Battery (under the rear seat) or from the jump start point in the fuse box under the bonnet.

Getting to the 12v Battery is not difficult, it's only one cover. If you're not too confident doing it yourself, I'd find a local auto electrician, it'll be much cheaper than a main dealer.

[kevinc23]

Thanks, I didn't realise that.