I drove the Lexus LM 350h Takumi (in Scotland)

[TomLC500h]

Hey everyone,

Toyota UK invited me out to drive the new Lexus LM 350h Takumi. I can honestly say it is the most expensive Lexus that I have drive (more than any of LC), coming in at over £113k. The LM feels like a private jet for the road. The rear cabin is where all the attention is, 2 luxurious seats that feel akin to a first class plane seat than something in an automobile. There is a huge 48" screen for the rear passengers to enjoy, as well as shades that close at a touch of a button. Plenty of phone chargers, 3 pin UK sockets and mood lighting to accompany the fridge (and wishful thinking champagne that should be in it).

Up front it does feel more van like, you sit up high like in a Transit. There is no heads up display however you are treated with a blend of soft materials and copper piping. The technology is pretty much the same as you would find in a Lexus NX 350h. The main feature difference is a special rear passenger button that can help reduce dive under braking and acceleration.

I will attach some photos to this post for you all to enjoy. If anyone wants to see my video on the LM, feel free to check it out on CarsofGlasgow YouTube channel.

 

[Linas.P]

It would be interesting to know your opinion... what sort of person you would need to be to buy it? I assume one would buy it to sit in the back of it and the driver is more of hired employee... somehow can't see any vip taxi drivers spending £113k on something that customers may not appreciate over say S-Class.

Then assuming you buying one to be in the back of it... would you rather be in the back of say RX or LS, or the same old S-Class, or rather get out from LM?

I guess the point I am getting to... what is this car for? Especially in UK! I understand in some south-eastern Asian countries this body style is appreciated, but what kind of person one would need to be to have one in UK? What is the value proposition?

So one would have to be the person that spends a lot of time on the road, something in excess of 2 hours a day, somebody who needs basically an office space whilst on the move, yet somebody very rich to pay £100k+ price for the car and hire a driver for it... I just don't believe there are such people in UK, not more than 10 of them anyway. No matter how comfortable and impressive are back seats I just can't see any utility in them, certainly no more utility then one can get from 45min ride in S-Class or Range Rover from their office in London to their Private Jet... and then they can do work in the Jet... or if they have their Jet in regional airport (say something like EMA)... then they probably will get into helicopter and fly there... so their ride will be 15 min to closest London Heliport and then 25 min flight to regional airport. Where does LM fit in all this? For popping into Harrods? Again apart very few Asian ambassadors who used to this type of body style... most people would be embarrassed stepping out of one of these if impressing others is their goal. 

LM is impressive in many ways (it is impressively ugly for one), but I just can't wrap my head around their target market in UK. It is even less desirable than luxury pick-up truck in UK. Just not the type of car witch people would like to be seen in the back of and considering the price very few would want to drive one either.

I don't know, maybe I am missing something here, and maybe as you have been in one you could enlighten me - who is it for? 

[TomLC500h]

Do you know, at first I thought it was very expensive. However a S class with the 2 first class style chairs are much more expensive. In the rear the LM is much more impressive than any other Lexus (or car) that I have been. I loved the rear blinds, the table and all the comforts back there. Driving wise it drove closer to a van than NX.

Interestingly they have sold the first 18 months allocation of LM in the UK, it has been quite popular apparently. 

I would say it is for chauffeur companies. If you want a further look, I did make a video of this LM for my YouTube channel, CarsofGlasgow.

 

Any other questions, just ask and I will do my best to answer.

[Linas.P]

It does not really compete with S-Class, but rather much cheaper Mercedes Vito.

The problem I have with LM is not how impressive is the car in isolation... sure in case where price is not a consideration, the LM itself may be quite impressive. I am sure to be impressed by Royce Royce Cullinan at the car show, but would I be willing to spend nearly £400k on it assuming I had the money? Suddenly it is not so impressive after all. Likewise, if we look from perspective of person who has that £113k and who is willing to spend that money on the car where they will be either service provider or the passenger... would they do it and why would they do it? What other alternatives they have?

The current VIP MPV market in UK is quite different from the configuration Lexus offers - usually they are configured as 7-9 seat passenger vans to move low-ranking delegates, staff or security detail around, they are considered lower class, whereas the actual principal is usually put into Range Rover, S-Class (or similar) car. NOBODY uses the MPV itself as VIP transport, they are auxiliary vehicles to motorcade. In theory I guess there is some security benefit if all the cars are the same (but UK isn't really such a dangerous country where it matters, perhaps consideration in something like Mexico, Lebanon or Columbia) and both 2-seater and 7-seater versions can can be used in same convoy without making it clear which car is principal's one. So in some sense 7-seater version perhaps have some limited market in UK, however at £90k it is double the price of more spacious Mercedes Vito which starts at £45k. 

Again - let's look at first perspective... we are VIP transport company operating from the airport to provide premium transportation... what do we choose? 5x S-class limos + 10x Vito MPVs for total cost of ~£1 million? That would give nice and diverse fleet for all occasions. Or we spend £1.5 million for 5x LM 2-seaters and 10x 7-seaters, giving the impression to everyone that we may be just a weird branch of Pimlico Plumbers in Luton? Not to mention that average VIP would assume they are being kidnapped when asked to get in the back of the van... before they can even appreciate really impressive appointments of LM... and I am not even joking here as much as it could be impressive once you get in, it may as well be VIP transport concealed as garbage truck... first impressions matters. 

Then we can look at it from perspective of VIP themselves, buying the car to be driven in... they can have S-Class at comparable cost, why would they choose van... where exactly do they need drive in UK, far enough that added comfort of LM would matter. Also even from perspective of "flying under the radar", S-Class is much less noticeable that Mr. Optimus Prime himself driving on the British roads.

As for them "selling the allocation the the year"... that doesn't tell much when we don't know what was that allocation... If they had 3 cars available... it may well be sold... they also need at least dozen of demonstrators, that dealers buys... so also it matters who was the customer that bought them? Lexus UK itself? Also that is age old marketing trick - they always say they have "pre-sold" to make people that would consider it to feel the rush to buy and to get in the line. On the serious note - I have said that perhaps there is market for initial 100 cars, Malaysian, Indonesian embassies surely going to want some of them... but what is the business case after each of South Asian Embassy get's their 10 cars? 

I have said in the past - if I book an Uber to take me home from Airport and Lexus LM is the car that picks me up... I would be very happy... but I am equally happy to get into the back of Mercedes E-Class or BMW 5-Series... they do the job just as well. So from the taxi/VIP transport business perspective... why spend £113k, where £45k would do? Chauffeur companies do not need such high quality cars, they only need the cars that look expensive on the surface, they have always bought poverty line E-Class and S-Class, because from 10 meters away and during 30 min drive, nobody is going to tell the difference between S600 and S350d. Chauffeur company is margin business, car cost is an expense which they want to minimise where possible. So I would argue opposite - it suppose to be for VIPs themselves, who would appreciate the comfort and features of LM... but UK VIPs won't appreciate MPV. 

[TomLC500h]

On 9/24/2024 at 12:33 PM, Linas.P said:

It does not really compete with S-Class, but rather much cheaper Mercedes Vito.

The problem I have with LM is not how impressive is the car in isolation... sure in case where price is not a consideration, the LM itself may be quite impressive. I am sure to be impressed by Royce Royce Cullinan at the car show, but would I be willing to spend nearly £400k on it assuming I had the money? Suddenly it is not so impressive after all. Likewise, if we look from perspective of person who has that £113k and who is willing to spend that money on the car where they will be either service provider or the passenger... would they do it and why would they do it? What other alternatives they have?

The current VIP MPV market in UK is quite different from the configuration Lexus offers - usually they are configured as 7-9 seat passenger vans to move low-ranking delegates, staff or security detail around, they are considered lower class, whereas the actual principal is usually put into Range Rover, S-Class (or similar) car. NOBODY uses the MPV itself as VIP transport, they are auxiliary vehicles to motorcade. In theory I guess there is some security benefit if all the cars are the same (but UK isn't really such a dangerous country where it matters, perhaps consideration in something like Mexico, Lebanon or Columbia) and both 2-seater and 7-seater versions can can be used in same convoy without making it clear which car is principal's one. So in some sense 7-seater version perhaps have some limited market in UK, however at £90k it is double the price of more spacious Mercedes Vito which starts at £45k. 

Again - let's look at first perspective... we are VIP transport company operating from the airport to provide premium transportation... what do we choose? 5x S-class limos + 10x Vito MPVs for total cost of ~£1 million? That would give nice and diverse fleet for all occasions. Or we spend £1.5 million for 5x LM 2-seaters and 10x 7-seaters, giving the impression to everyone that we may be just a weird branch of Pimlico Plumbers in Luton? Not to mention that average VIP would assume they are being kidnapped when asked to get in the back of the van... before they can even appreciate really impressive appointments of LM... and I am not even joking here as much as it could be impressive once you get in, it may as well be VIP transport concealed as garbage truck... first impressions matters. 

Then we can look at it from perspective of VIP themselves, buying the car to be driven in... they can have S-Class at comparable cost, why would they choose van... where exactly do they need drive in UK, far enough that added comfort of LM would matter. Also even from perspective of "flying under the radar", S-Class is much less noticeable that Mr. Optimus Prime himself driving on the British roads.

As for them "selling the allocation the the year"... that doesn't tell much when we don't know what was that allocation... If they had 3 cars available... it may well be sold... they also need at least dozen of demonstrators, that dealers buys... so also it matters who was the customer that bought them? Lexus UK itself? Also that is age old marketing trick - they always say they have "pre-sold" to make people that would consider it to feel the rush to buy and to get in the line. On the serious note - I have said that perhaps there is market for initial 100 cars, Malaysian, Indonesian embassies surely going to want some of them... but what is the business case after each of South Asian Embassy get's their 10 cars? 

I have said in the past - if I book an Uber to take me home from Airport and Lexus LM is the car that picks me up... I would be very happy... but I am equally happy to get into the back of Mercedes E-Class or BMW 5-Series... they do the job just as well. So from the taxi/VIP transport business perspective... why spend £113k, where £45k would do? Chauffeur companies do not need such high quality cars, they only need the cars that look expensive on the surface, they have always bought poverty line E-Class and S-Class, because from 10 meters away and during 30 min drive, nobody is going to tell the difference between S600 and S350d. Chauffeur company is margin business, car cost is an expense which they want to minimise where possible. So I would argue opposite - it suppose to be for VIPs themselves, who would appreciate the comfort and features of LM... but UK VIPs won't appreciate MPV. 

Over 200 LM's have been sold in the UK so far, so hope that helps

[Linas.P]

18 minutes ago, TomLC500h said:

Over 200 LM's have been sold in the UK so far, so hope that helps

Certainly relevant, I am surprised... both that they managed to sell 200 of them and also that they bothered to bring the model to UK with only 200 cars allocation. 

Type approval can cost anywhere from ~£1 million to something like £5 million. Considering they only have LM350 FWD and AWD, it may be considered just one model, max 2... so their cost to bringing it to UK is closer to £ 1 million (+ obviously spares, marketing, demo cars, technician training etc. will be millions as well). 

So let's just assume they somehow managed to do all this for just £2 million... the margins on the cars are very low in general, but perhaps on LM they have high margin. In auto industry high-margin is 10%... meaning they would be making £10k per car sold. Meaning - selling 200 cars are required just to break-even.

Now thinking about that more, maybe it is not so bad if they can break-even on year one, perhaps that 200 cars number is not coincidence, but exactly the number that was needed to make it economically viable to introduce the model in the country. Generally, speaking companies never do that apart of flagship model, which exists more a halo car/loss-leader. It is kind of weird when Lexus has a van as their "flagship"... but hey, if they can at least break-even on it then it probably works out. 

I guess what I am saying - they either have ridiculous margin on them, or they are not making any profit selling just 200 cars. In other hand all sales after this point will be profit... which is kind of surprising that they could bring such car here and manage to turn profit... perhaps there is more about the market that I thought.

I am still afraid to even think of how badly these will depreciate. 

[dutchie01]

Its an interesting car. Styling is Asian in the extreme and likely to be difficult for the western eye. I find the outside horriffically ugly. However it seems the car is to be judged from the interior as a passenger and there it does stand out. Its like nothing else on the road and i guess there will be a niche market for these. Aimed at top end chauffeur services in city environments it could well make sense. Some will prefer to walk into this, close the door and be transported some blocks away to the next apppointment then judoing yourself in the backseat of an S class. Its basically a reworked Toyota Alphard that seems pretty successfull with over 100.000 sold each year in Japan alone. Production is very lean without options, one drivetrain only so development costs for the LM will be relatively low and looking at the salesprice that is higher than last years LS600H i expect the margins to be exceptional. It will look cool in any dealership as well. Just hope you will not be hit from behind as the captainseat finds itself in the crumple zone..

[DavidCM]

No.I still see this--

[Ken R]

I personally think it looks better in the metal than it does in photographs and videos!

[dutchie01]

I have seen one in traffic and am still recovering! Oh Boy this thing is ugly.  I cannot imagine designing something as horrid as this let alone building it. Truly bizarre proportions form the side. A front that appears to be bolted on and the back surely must belong to another car? I am now thinking if i have seen a car uglier than this but i still cannot come up with one. Anyone?

[Linas.P]

To be fair I think the same when I see all the JDM Alphards, Estimas etc. There are certainly people who like that body style, but every time I see one parked or in the traffic I just think of how ugly they are. Also I guess I have similar feeling when I see pick-up trucks that are not meant for work, basically the US imported ones... I just find them ugly and pointless. It is fine if I see say work "truck" that has some equipment in the back... basically a van equivalent, but perhaps with better off-road capability. Yes that is fine, it is work vehicle. But when you see shiny pick-up truck it is just something odd about it. And it would not be odd at all for somebody in US, but it is certainly odd for me like European. And same here - MPVs are just not the thing we really appreciate here, and "luxury" MPV is like oxymoron.

[Ken R]

On 11/9/2024 at 8:35 PM, dutchie01 said:

 I am now thinking if i have seen a car uglier than this but i still cannot come up with one. Anyone?

Ssangyong Rodius

Ford Scorpio 

Renault Vel Satis 

Ssangyong Rexton 

Fiat Multipla 

Nissan Cube 

Renault Avantime