06 IS250 Sport in "Shed of the Week" on Pistonheads...

[Mincey]

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=2092341

Responses mostly favourable!

[mk_lon]

Whenever I read reviews on the 2nd gen IS like this it always makes me smile. It is a brilliant car in so many ways that car journalists simply don't understand. 

Ride quality, reliability, comfort, equipment, safety and build quality. 

Whenever I see it parked next to a e90 3 series or a w204 c class or the early 2000s a4 it is better looking and more modern, in fact it has aged well over the years compared to them. 

As with any car, colour, interior colour, wheels and spec make a big difference. 

[H3XME]

On 8/31/2024 at 10:14 AM, Mincey said:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=2092341

Responses mostly favourable!

Not bad, although the interior was standard as Microsuede on the Sport model and that was the only option you'd have on that trim. You had the option of cream or black colours though. Leather was standard on SE & SE-L. Base model & SR had cloth manual seats, but the base models are very very rare. It had smaller 16" wheels, smaller/solid brakes etc. 

[Linas.P]

I would definitely agree with it being shed of... many years now. Value for money is hard to beat, but also it is still 19 years old car now... so yes it is little bit of shed, but still very good shed, very well equipped shed and to most part still very reliable. It is good buy for a cheap.

On 8/31/2024 at 10:37 AM, mk_lon said:

It is a brilliant car in so many ways that car journalists simply don't understand. 

I see this statement often and I just don't agree with it, I don't believe there is anything wrong with journalism, the problem is that their criteria is much different from what we used car buyer is looking for. Nowadays we have "new format" journalists who reviews used cars, also this "shed of the week" column which specifically caters to used and older car buyers.

I completely agree with you that compared to same year BMW E90 generation or Mercedes W204, I much rather be in IS250, I agree with you that it aged better than any of those cars, better than Audi, it was better built, better equipped car. However, this is what we know with hindsight, we not paying £30k+ for brand new car, we not specifying option out of catalogue in the dealership... we see something that costs £4000 and has a lot of value in it, many options that even modern cars lack (like cooled seats). The value proposition todays is very different from that of 19 years ago when car was brand new and compared against brand new BMWs and MBs.

First thing - journalists do not care and should not care about long term reliability. Why? Because manufacturers do not care about it and most of the customers do not care about it either. Remember - the only people that matters in it's life cycle are the original buyer that buys it new. Second hand market is irrelevant, that is basically an afterlife from the perspective of manufacturers and original buyers. So yes - IS250 is way more reliable long term than any other car, I would easily put it in maybe top 100 most reliable cars ever made category (which by the way would be filled with Lexus/Toyota models and maybe few Hondas and Mazdas), yet it is irrelevant for somebody who bought the car 19 years ago on 3 years long lease and did 40k miles in it, BMW, Mercedes and Audi - all would have been just fine within those 3 years and 40k, or 60k miles. And again to be fair - all revies I have seen said "it is not the most potent car in the world, but it is likely to last million miles". So they do say it, however for new car that is just one of 100s of criteria and nowhere near as important as it is for say 15 years old car. 

Second thing - performance and choice (and to some degree taxation). When IS was new, there was very limited choice of engines available, with limited options. In short - when advising potential customers on the overall choice between 3-Series, C-Class and Lexus IS, the only logical choice for journalist is to say - "germans have it all, they have any engine you may want, any option you may want and you can build perfect car for yourself, Lexus has only this specific, borderline anaemic V6, mostly auto, manual is kind of agricultural, or IS220d which only has manual for some inexplicable reason". So it was niche car, for a niche buyer... if you exactly wanted NA V6 with smooth auto and if you were buying cash and planning to keep the car for 10 years + only then the car was perfect for you and you probably represented 0.1% of market. Also what killed it was the taxation, also UK buyers prejudice "2.5L V6is huge engine" (no it is not!)... so basically it was unfairly judged as "gas guzzler" in the times when diesels were the first choice for everyone. Could be said bad timing as well. And IS220d without auto just absolutelly idiotic (although I am happy about it, the last thing we want is more of those turds). BMW and MB is easy to recommend, because they know the market and they play the game - they have every engine displacement in 0.1L increments from 1.6L all the way to 6.2L, they have any gearbox with any engine, you can have fast car, you can have economical car, there is car for everyone in the line-up. With Lexus you just get same V6, which is great if you looking for that particular size, but only if you looking for that particular size.

All this flips upside-down when the car is 10+ years old and you are buying it as 3rd owner after 90% depreciation. It does not matter anymore that it was £3000 more expensive than BMW 320d 10 years ago, because now maybe it is £500 cheaper. Also it does not matter than road tax is £415 compared to £115 or even £30 on BMW, because you know BMW will be endless trouble costing thousands just to stay on the road... and on IS you most likely only going to replace oils and filters and consumables like tyres and brake pads... and that is it. Then suddenly it is totally different value proposition, totally different perspective. That is how we end-up with paradoxical situation where "SC430 is voted worst car of the century", yet nowadays it is fairly decent car compared to competition like BMW 645Ci... but in 2002 it was horrible value proposition. Not worst car of the century for sure, but I would not want to be parting with my £62k back in 2002 to buy it either. And journalist simply never even pretend to cover it... it is just something one needs to be mindful of when reading reviews - they are not for used car buyers, they not for long term ownership. They are for most common type of buyer (3 years lease) on new car, considering the qualities of new car. As long as you know that, the reviews are generally quite accurate and fair.

[mk_lon]

On 9/2/2024 at 1:04 PM, Linas.P said:

I would definitely agree with it being shed of... many years now. Value for money is hard to beat, but also it is still 19 years old car now... so yes it is little bit of shed, but still very good shed, very well equipped shed and to most part still very reliable. It is good buy for a cheap.

I see this statement often and I just don't agree with it, I don't believe there is anything wrong with journalism, the problem is that their criteria is much different from what we used car buyer is looking for. Nowadays we have "new format" journalists who reviews used cars, also this "shed of the week" column which specifically caters to used and older car buyers.

I completely agree with you that compared to same year BMW E90 generation or Mercedes W204, I much rather be in IS250, I agree with you that it aged better than any of those cars, better than Audi, it was better built, better equipped car. However, this is what we know with hindsight, we not paying £30k+ for brand new car, we not specifying option out of catalogue in the dealership... we see something that costs £4000 and has a lot of value in it, many options that even modern cars lack (like cooled seats). The value proposition todays is very different from that of 19 years ago when car was brand new and compared against brand new BMWs and MBs.

First thing - journalists do not care and should not care about long term reliability. Why? Because manufacturers do not care about it and most of the customers do not care about it either. Remember - the only people that matters in it's life cycle are the original buyer that buys it new. Second hand market is irrelevant, that is basically an afterlife from the perspective of manufacturers and original buyers. So yes - IS250 is way more reliable long term than any other car, I would easily put it in maybe top 100 most reliable cars ever made category (which by the way would be filled with Lexus/Toyota models and maybe few Hondas and Mazdas), yet it is irrelevant for somebody who bought the car 19 years ago on 3 years long lease and did 40k miles in it, BMW, Mercedes and Audi - all would have been just fine within those 3 years and 40k, or 60k miles. And again to be fair - all revies I have seen said "it is not the most potent car in the world, but it is likely to last million miles". So they do say it, however for new car that is just one of 100s of criteria and nowhere near as important as it is for say 15 years old car. 

Second thing - performance and choice (and to some degree taxation). When IS was new, there was very limited choice of engines available, with limited options. In short - when advising potential customers on the overall choice between 3-Series, C-Class and Lexus IS, the only logical choice for journalist is to say - "germans have it all, they have any engine you may want, any option you may want and you can build perfect car for yourself, Lexus has only this specific, borderline anaemic V6, mostly auto, manual is kind of agricultural, or IS220d which only has manual for some inexplicable reason". So it was niche car, for a niche buyer... if you exactly wanted NA V6 with smooth auto and if you were buying cash and planning to keep the car for 10 years + only then the car was perfect for you and you probably represented 0.1% of market. Also what killed it was the taxation, also UK buyers prejudice "2.5L V6is huge engine" (no it is not!)... so basically it was unfairly judged as "gas guzzler" in the times when diesels were the first choice for everyone. Could be said bad timing as well. And IS220d without auto just absolutelly idiotic (although I am happy about it, the last thing we want is more of those turds). BMW and MB is easy to recommend, because they know the market and they play the game - they have every engine displacement in 0.1L increments from 1.6L all the way to 6.2L, they have any gearbox with any engine, you can have fast car, you can have economical car, there is car for everyone in the line-up. With Lexus you just get same V6, which is great if you looking for that particular size, but only if you looking for that particular size.

All this flips upside-down when the car is 10+ years old and you are buying it as 3rd owner after 90% depreciation. It does not matter anymore that it was £3000 more expensive than BMW 320d 10 years ago, because now maybe it is £500 cheaper. Also it does not matter than road tax is £415 compared to £115 or even £30 on BMW, because you know BMW will be endless trouble costing thousands just to stay on the road... and on IS you most likely only going to replace oils and filters and consumables like tyres and brake pads... and that is it. Then suddenly it is totally different value proposition, totally different perspective. That is how we end-up with paradoxical situation where "SC430 is voted worst car of the century", yet nowadays it is fairly decent car compared to competition like BMW 645Ci... but in 2002 it was horrible value proposition. Not worst car of the century for sure, but I would not want to be parting with my £62k back in 2002 to buy it either. And journalist simply never even pretend to cover it... it is just something one needs to be mindful of when reading reviews - they are not for used car buyers, they not for long term ownership. They are for most common type of buyer (3 years lease) on new car, considering the qualities of new car. As long as you know that, the reviews are generally quite accurate and fair.

I could not have put it better myself, thank you for summarizing this perfectly. I would also add that living in London where roads are full of potholes, speed humps and speed cameras. The Lexus IS far better ride than a BMW with sports suspension, massive alloys and low profile tires... 

[Micholas]

He's right about the MPG.. I'm doing a full tank a week on mine 😪