LS600hL update - Rear seats, suspension, battery, MOT

[Jon Evans]

Hi all - I seem to have gone a bit quiet on this forum lately, but I've been doing a fair amount of work in the background so I thought it was time for an update post.

First of all I'm happy to say it passed its MOT today with no advisories. It's on 197.5k miles.

I took it for an oil change service at ITS Autos in Milton Keynes a couple of weeks ago. My first time there, and I can highly recommend them. They were very knowledgable and friendly. As well as the service, I asked them to give the car a general look over, and in particular see if they can work out where the front right rattle and the rear left tapping noises are coming from. For the front right they said all of the suspension arms look to be in great condition, so unfortunately it's probably the air suspension. The rear left they said there was nothing obvious but it sounded like it was coming from inside the car, not the suspension.

I spent the next day stripping everything out the back of the car - seat backs & bases, seat mechanism, centre console (it's the 4 seat version), parcel shelf, rear blind, C-pillar trim, etc.

With everything out, the noise was a lot louder. I set up a Gopro to see if it would help to narrow it down, and it seemed to be coming from the top of the left shock. I thought I'd fixed it TWICE:

1. the shock actuator motor seemed a little bit loose on the metal clip, so i bent the metal slightly to eliminate the wobble. No joy.
2. there was a plastic gearbox hanging off the side of the seatbelt reel, which had a little plastic pawl rattling around in it. It was the gears that implement the feature for child seats where if you pull the belt all the way out, it locks it into a mode where it will only retract and can't be pulled out again until it's fully retracted. I fixed it but the tapping noise was still present.

Finally I worked out it was coming from the shock itself.

I reassembled everything the next day.

After considering the "Made In China" aftermarket copies, and going down the reconditioning route, I decided to order 4 new OEM Lexus air suspension struts from Amayama, I'm expecting delivery some time this week. I also ordered some sundry nuts and bolts, plus the anti roll bar links and new bushes for the anti roll bar. I don't think mine are particularly bad, it's just easy to do while I'm in there. The struts and sundries are two separate orders so the other bits might not be here for another couple of weeks.

About a week after taking the rear seats out, I accidentally popped the boot open for no more than 2 or 3 hours while I was working in the house, and it flattened the 12v Battery. I already suspected the Battery is on its way out, I would hope it has enough power to run an LED interior light bulb for considerably longer than 2 hours. It let me down again a few days later, so the upshot is I bought one of those 12v lithium jump start packs from the local Halfords ready for the next emergency, and ordered a replacement OEM / Panasonic Battery. I'm hoping that will arrive this week as well.

I will attach some photos of the back of the car from when I took the seats out.

Fixing the seat belt mechanism:

The seat bases, C-pillar trim, door side threshold mouldings, air ducts from parcel shelf, rear table, rear DVD console, rear seat media and seat controls, and one of the seatbelts

Parcel shelf and rear blind

Rear centre console

Sound deadening cloth and seat base mechanisms

Seat back brackets (left seat has tilt motor)

Seat backs and the piece of parcel shelf that goes between the rear blind and the window

[The-Acre]

I have to say, that amount of work and enthusiasm has made my head spin! Can I ask how much the shocks were?

[Malc1]

Nigh on 200k miles is brilliant 👍 …… an outstanding car for sure 

How many miles in your ownership Jon ? 

And if we dare ask …… the financials 🤔

Thanks 

Malc 

[GEN]

My Ls600hl will be needing air shocks soon (not to mention control arms) so would love to know the cost of the shocks from Amayama.

[Jon Evans]

Not cheap! But cheaper than Lexus in the UK (I hope).

The initial price for the 4 shocks was £2,401. Postage was originally £567, but once they had the parts in stock they reduced that to £310. So I've paid Amayama £2,712 so far (they quickly refunded the delivery overpayment). I'm expecting to pay either 2% or 4% import duty, and VAT, but I haven't had that bill yet.

My estimate fot the total cost is around £3,400, which is a lot, but about £1k cheaper than buying them locally.

The additional nuts, bolts, anti roll bar bushes & links I ordered came to about £175.

The 12v Battery was £351.

17 hours ago, Malc1 said:

How many miles in your ownership Jon ? 

I'm annoyed at myself for not making a note of the exact mileage when I bought it, but I estimate 190,364 miles based on a photo I took of the dashboard the day after, and the approximate distance I would have driven it home. So I've done just over 7k miles since last October.

[Jon Evans]

I've just received the invoice for the VAT + Duty + admin fee: £639.38. So the total price for the 4 shocks is £3,351.20. They shipped from the UAE, they were cheaper from that warehouse than they were from the Japan warehouse when I placed the order.

[Malc1]

Gulp …… lots of ££££ spent but probably good for another 100k +  miles 🤔

and if you’re keeping her for a while then a sound investment ( if ever a car can be ) that will give you many years of superb motoring …… at overall economic average annual cost 

Well done 👍 

Malc 

[CQHall]

Hi, Jon. Nice documentation and photos!

(Long-ish post to provide context below, but my three questions are in bold.)

As luck would have it, next week I'm having coilovers installed on my new-to-me 185K mile LS600h L (with executive package). Tomorrow I plan to remove the rear center console and seats so that I don't have to pay my mechanic to do so. I'm fairly handy. This weekend I removed the front bumper cover to replace a crushed parking sensor (by previous owner). And I've done similar fiddly jobs on the interior of cars like dropping head liners and replacing sunroofs and whatnot.

To remove the rear seats, I have downloaded the instructions from Toyota/Lexus. But, I've found that sometimes such manufacturer instructions can be a bit superfluous. Since you seem to have recent, intimate knowledge of this area on the same car, I have a few questions that I hope you can/will answer for me:

• I only need to reach the top caps of the rear struts. Do I really need to remove the center console as per the OEM instructions?
• If I were so inclined, would it be reasonable to cut a rectangular "service access panel" in the rear deck directly over the strut tops big enough to access the nuts for the removal and installation? Is there anything sensitive between the rear strut tops and the proposed access flap? This solution would make the job a lot easier.

The coilovers that I'm ordering have adjustable dampening, so I would love to have ready access to the strut tops to take advantage of that feature if needed. My mechanic did something similar when installing coilovers on an LS430 years ago. But, that was a small access flap for the adjustment knob. I'm considering a bigger one to facilitate installation as well. I know that this may be blasphemous to some to cut directly into the deck, but the scars would be minimal, out of sight, and most importantly, functional.

[Malc1]

CQ hi.       sounds amazing what you’re doing   Well done 

I’ve not yet read of Coilover substitution for the Ls600 ……. It could make a huge difference to the on-going life expectancy of these amazing cars ……… to make older cars just affordable for many and ensure their use going on for years to come 

Have you a comparative  pricing structure for the coil overs and likely changeover 

very interesting following how this pans out

Goid luck

Malc 

[CQHall]

6 hours ago, Malc1 said:

CQ hi.       sounds amazing what you’re doing   Well done 

I’ve not yet read of Coilover substitution for the Ls600 ……. It could make a huge difference to the on-going life expectancy of these amazing cars ……… to make older cars just affordable for many and ensure their use going on for years to come 

Have you a comparative  pricing structure for the coil overs and likely changeover 

very interesting following how this pans out

Goid luck

Malc 

Thanks, Malc.

I ordered the coilovers from Ceika for around $1,300 USD! : (had to remove the direct URL as the server thinks I'm a spammer. The domain is ceika-store dot com ). 

I found out about the brand from a Porsche forum where I'm a member (I also have a < 50K mile 996 Carrera 4S). A 996 Turbo owner ordered a set for a similar price, which is about 1/4 to 1/3 of what an Ohlins or Bilstein coilover kit would cost, which are the most popular brands used in that community. The owner reported that he was satisfied with his kit which is impressive being that some Porsche owners can be a very fussy crowd.

As I learned more and more about the brand, it seems that they make each set to order. Reviews are overwhelmingly positive across all makes/models. I even found a lot of reviews from LS460 owners who were also happy. The only negatives being the occasional person saying that they don't ride as plush as OEM air. But, that's to be expected going from literally riding on air to riding on steel coils. That same difference can be felt when comparing two new LS, one with air springs and the other with coil springs.

Anyway, it was an easy decision for me being that my local dealership (Atlanta, GA, USA) were asking $1,900 USD per corner and the best online price I could find was LexusPartsNow for $1,600 per corner. I can only assume that they are a "grey market" supplier who buys OEM parts from non-USA markets where the prices are lower and sells to the US for under dealership prices, but you don't get the Lexus USA warranty (where you can return an item to any dealership), only their store warranty where you have to work only with that store.

Ceika customer service was very responsive via email. I was concerned about if they would actually make a set for the LS600h's AWD system as it's slightly different than the more common 2WD system where there are a lot more coilover options. The rep was well aware of my concerns and confirmed that they are indeed for the LS600h AWD system.

I configured and ordered directly from their website. They took about 3 weeks to ship. I have a DHL tracking number and that package is now in the US and should be delivered here tomorrow. I'll post pics of the kit when it arrives.

I've had great success with coilovers on other cars in the past: Audi A4 (Bilstein), Audi A6 (Bilstein), LS430 (D2), E55 AMG (D2), among others. They aren't just for race (or wannabe race) applications.

[GEN]

7 minutes ago, CQHall said:

Thanks, Malc.

I ordered the coilovers from Ceika for around $1,300 USD! : (had to remove the direct URL as the server thinks I'm a spammer. The domain is ceika-store dot com ). 

I found out about the brand from a Porsche forum where I'm a member (I also have a < 50K mile 996 Carrera 4S). A 996 Turbo owner ordered a set for a similar price, which is about 1/4 to 1/3 of what an Ohlins or Bilstein coilover kit would cost, which are the most popular brands used in that community. The owner reported that he was satisfied with his kit which is impressive being that some Porsche owners can be a very fussy crowd.

As I learned more and more about the brand, it seems that they make each set to order. Reviews are overwhelmingly positive across all makes/models. I even found a lot of reviews from LS460 owners who were also happy. The only negatives being the occasional person saying that they don't ride as plush as OEM air. But, that's to be expected going from literally riding on air to riding on steel coils. That same difference can be felt when comparing two new LS, one with air springs and the other with coil springs.

Anyway, it was an easy decision for me being that my local dealership (Atlanta, GA, USA) were asking $1,900 USD per corner and the best online price I could find was LexusPartsNow for $1,600 per corner. I can only assume that they are a "grey market" supplier who buys OEM parts from non-USA markets where the prices are lower and sells to the US for under dealership prices, but you don't get the Lexus USA warranty (where you can return an item to any dealership), only their store warranty where you have to work only with that store.

Ceika customer service was very responsive via email. I was concerned about if they would actually make a set for the LS600h's AWD system as it's slightly different than the more common 2WD system where there are a lot more coilover options. The rep was well aware of my concerns and confirmed that they are indeed for the LS600h AWD system.

I configured and ordered directly from their website. They took about 3 weeks to ship. I have a DHL tracking number and that package is now in the US and should be delivered here tomorrow. I'll post pics of the kit when it arrives.

I've had great success with coilovers on other cars in the past: Audi A4 (Bilstein), Audi A6 (Bilstein), LS430 (D2), E55 AMG (D2), among others. They aren't just for race (or wannabe race) applications.

I'm really interested as I already have one leaking air shock on my Ls600hl and Lexus quoted me £1001 (with or without VAT?) for one shock.  

[Jon Evans]

8 hours ago, CQHall said:

• I only need to reach the top caps of the rear struts. Do I really need to remove the center console as per the OEM instructions?
• If I were so inclined, would it be reasonable to cut a rectangular "service access panel" in the rear deck directly over the strut tops big enough to access the nuts for the removal and installation? Is there anything sensitive between the rear strut tops and the proposed access flap? This solution would make the job a lot easier.

Hi CQ,

For the rear center console: I would remove it, but don't worry, it's probably one of the easiest parts to remove out of the whole ordeal. Pop out the plastic cover in the rear of the large cubby hole and remove 4 bolts, then pop off the trim piece from the top and remove another two bolts. Then the whole thing just pulls forward and up, and there's just a single cable to unplug.

The hard parts are:

• Jerking the seat bases free, if they've never been done before.
• Disconnecting all the plastic wire clips from the wires that come from the seat back to the seat base

One tip would be that you shouldn't try to remove the plastic doorway trim that goes from the bottom of the rear doorways to the C pillar trim, unti AFTER you've removed the seat backs. A previous owner must have done that in mine. It just results in breaking off some plastic clips where it attaches to the C pillar trim.

There is enough room to unplug all the seat back wires and remove the seat backs with that trim still in place, and in fact it makes it easier to line up the seat backs when you are reassembling it if that trim is already fitted.

Once the seat backs are out, you can remove the door threshold covers at the bottom of the doorways, then the plastic trim that goes up the sides, then the C pillar trims.

Cutting holes in the rear deck - it's your car I guess! Personally I wouldn't, but I get that it makes it a lot easier to adjust the struts. I would still remove the deck initially so that you can more accurately mark out where you're going to cut it.

[CQHall]

32 minutes ago, Jon Evans said:

Hi CQ,

For the rear center console: I would remove it, but don't worry, it's probably one of the easiest parts to remove out of the whole ordeal. Pop out the plastic cover in the rear of the large cubby hole and remove 4 bolts, then pop off the trim piece from the top and remove another two bolts. Then the whole thing just pulls forward and up, and there's just a single cable to unplug.

The hard parts are:

• Jerking the seat bases free, if they've never been done before.
• Disconnecting all the plastic wire clips from the wires that come from the seat back to the seat base

One tip would be that you shouldn't try to remove the plastic doorway trim that goes from the bottom of the rear doorways to the C pillar trim, unti AFTER you've removed the seat backs. A previous owner must have done that in mine. It just results in breaking off some plastic clips where it attaches to the C pillar trim.

There is enough room to unplug all the seat back wires and remove the seat backs with that trim still in place, and in fact it makes it easier to line up the seat backs when you are reassembling it if that trim is already fitted.

Once the seat backs are out, you can remove the door threshold covers at the bottom of the doorways, then the plastic trim that goes up the sides, then the C pillar trims.

Cutting holes in the rear deck - it's your car I guess! Personally I wouldn't, but I get that it makes it a lot easier to adjust the struts. I would still remove the deck initially so that you can more accurately mark out where you're going to cut it.

Thanks, Jon!

Well, if my idea of the service flap is sound, I wouldn't have to remove the seats in the first place. Just:

• Use a Dremel cutting wheel to cut 3 sides of the flap.
• Somehow crease the back edge, which will serve as the hinge.
• Maybe install a leather cord (to be fancy) to serve as the grab handle to open the flap.

I've borrowed your photos to mark up for illustration.

Being that you have the components in question already disassembled, does this seem sound? I won't hold you liable if this idea doesn't work. But, if this works, it could be a great service to the community who are maintaining these land yachts and are inevitably experiencing suspension woes.

The access panel idea came from a solution to an issue with the HVAC system in 996 911s. There is some foam insulation that inevitably deteriorates after 15-20 years and blows out of the vents like black snow. Not harmful, just annoying. This insulation is on a flap that's needed to direct hot air into the cabin on cold days. When it's fully gone, no hot air for the cabin. It happens on all Porsche, VW, and Audi cars from that era. The solution is to either remove the entire dashboard to get to the offending part for remedy...or cut an access panel in a duct behind the radio. You can imagine which solution is the most popular 😂 

• If I were to take a Dremel to the areas indicated in my annotations, do you think I risk cutting some importing things (i.e. speaker wires) that might be attached under the rear deck in the indicated areas?
• Can I bother you to take photos of the underside of your deck so that I can see?

Thank you so much for indulging me!

 

[Jon Evans]

4 minutes ago, CQHall said:

If I were to take a Dremel to the areas indicated in my annotations, do you think I risk cutting some importing things (i.e. speaker wires) that might be attached under the rear deck in the indicated areas?

No speaker wires - they are either behind the C pillar trims, or close to the subwoofer in the middle of the deck. The closest wire would be the solar sensor in the deck, the plug is just to the left of the right hand child seat attachment point, and the wire is attached to the deck lid as it routes to the sensor (left/right from the driver's point of view). I can't remember what exact route the cable took from the sensor to the plug.

Note, you won't have much working space, you can't even remove the headrests so you'll have to work around them.

Personally I think you stand a much better chance of doing a neat job if you take it all out and make your modifications outside of the car. Maybe you only need a small screwdriver sized hole for adjusting the shocks, in which case you could mark out and drill something like a 1 inch hole precisely centered over the shock, and fill the hole with a rubber panel plug.

6 minutes ago, CQHall said:

Can I bother you to take photos of the underside of your deck so that I can see?

Yes, but it won't be for a few weeks. Everything is back in the car now. It's all got to come out again when my Amayama orders are delivered.

I've checked my other photos and unfortunately I didn't take any of the underside of the deck. Next time it's out I'll take better pictures, and see if I can get precise dimensions for the location of the strut tops.

[CQHall]

Thank you!

I'll check around eBay and see if someone is selling that deck. Seller's usually provide photos from all angles.

I'll report back.

[CQHall]

Good news and (possibly) good news:

Coilovers have arrived! Here they are unwrapped. I also ordered 3 different sizes of adjuster extensions because I wasn't sure of the size I'd need. They are designed to stick up through a small hole in the rear deck/shelf or bent and routed somewhere discrete.

Also, good news (hopefully). When I was in the car assessing how the seat removal might work, I noticed that because I have reclining rear seats there is a large gap between the seat backs and the deck that has to be lifted to reveal the strut top nuts. This is great. I might be able to simply remove the leather trim, remove the center console, then unbolt/unpin the deck in order to lift it to gain access to the strut top nuts!

I might be able to bend the adjustment extenders into that area (under the Velcro) and stash it there. No need to cut the deck at all. Fingers-crossed.

Now I gotta book an install session with my mechanic...

[CQHall]

OK. This method seems to be working. No need to remove the seats (yet).

I've removed the top of the center console (with DVD player). As @John Evans mentions, it's just 6 bolts.

I've freed up the front of the shelf. 

Now the problem is the sides being that each side is pinned/tucked under the C-pillar trim. But, in order to remove that C-pillar trim, one has to remove all of the trim from the door kick plate up to the C-Pillar because they layer on one another.

...or I can just tug the shelf and bow it some to pull it free. Which is what it seems like they are doing in the Arnott video. Note how the C-pillar trim is still in place (skip to 1:25 mark). But, man, it looks like they butchered that shelf 😂 

 

 

[CQHall]

The upside is that, if destroyed, the shelf is maybe $250USD new from the main dealer. Not a crazy price.

[Autechre]

On 8/28/2024 at 3:12 PM, Jon Evans said:

I've just received the invoice for the VAT + Duty + admin fee: £639.38. So the total price for the 4 shocks is £3,351.20. They shipped from the UAE, they were cheaper from that warehouse than they were from the Japan warehouse when I placed the order.

Hi Jon,

This is unrelated to the topic, but I want to purchase some parts for my Lexus CT from Amayama. The total is about £600 for small bits of the body (fender wing, grille, etc), which is substantially cheaper than Lexus UK. 

How much am I looking at overall, including duty, VAT etc? 

[steve2006]

You have to pay duty and VAT on the total amount ( goods and shipping) 

Duty is normally around 5% and VAT of course is 20%.

£600.00 + 5% (£630.00) + VAT (£126.00) total £756.00.

There is also a “Handling charge” from the courier unless you can prepay.

[Jon Evans]

Steve is correct. There’s a uk.gov site to tell you what the duty is for each (very specific) category of item, but they are generally between 2 and 5 percent so if you calculate based on 5% then you probably won’t be surprised. I paid £30.45 admin fee.

They have also made me pay a further £110 for special delivery because it’s over 30kg! Not too pleased about that. Delivery is expected next week.

[CQHall]

Update:

The coilovers are in. No need to remove the rear seats at all! Just the top half of the executive center console which releases the center of the shelf. My mechanic was able to bend/bow the shelf in the middle (like in the Arnott video) to gain access to the strut tops. He said that he needed a small socket wrench to work on the nuts, but it worked. No need to cut. No need to remove the seats or pillar trim.

He was able to fish the adjuster extensions out of the flaps that child latch thing so I can adjust the dampening. You can see them from outside of the car (see pic), but not from inside of the car.

As with most coilover installations, there is some back and forth with fine tuning the height. Right now, it's too low in the front and a small but too high in the rear. Safe enough to drive but not even. He'll even it out tomorrow.

On dampening setting 20 of 30 clicks "hard", the ride was pretty good. Not harsh at all. If anything I may go in for a bit more stiffness. The spring rates are spot on. The car isn't as dreamy as when new, but it's still pretty damn good right now. And for $1,300USD, it's punching well above its weight.

I'll post pics of the outside of the car when we fine tune the ride height. Also getting an alignment in the morning.

[Malc1]

This is quite some feat of achievement 

Well done 

I’m presuming you’re somewhere in the USA and yours is a Left Hand Drive car ?

Malc 

[CQHall]

4 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

This is quite some feat of achievement 

Well done 

I’m presuming you’re somewhere in the USA and yours is a Left Hand Drive car ?

Malc 

Thanks! And yes, I live in the Atlanta metro in the USA. Left hand drive.

[CQHall]

Update:

Tweaked the ride height some. Hunter alignment done. Today, I took the family on a day trip about 2hrs out and 2hrs back into the GA mountains. High speeds on the highways and twisty roads into the mountains and the car performed very well. Very planted and predictable. I lowered the dampening settings to the middle of the range and that seems to be perfect. Having the rear adjuster extensions helped A LOT. Soft and comfortable, not sporty, predictable handling even for such a heavy car.

An added bonus is how well the suspension reacted at high speeds. The car seemed to feel even more planted when handling bumps and uneven, undulating roads at +130KPH/+80MPH.

I was happy with the suspension when I had it at 2/3 stiffness. Now I'm very, very happy now that I've backed it to 1/2 stiffness.

I highly recommend this to anyone considering.

BTW, I'm not affiliated with Ceika in any way. Having used D2 on two cars in the past, if D2 made an AWD solution, I would be writing about D2 because I would have grabbed a set of those first. But they only have coilovers for 2WD LS. And luckily Ceika makes them for the AWD cars and I'm very grateful to them!

Here are two of the same photo. One to show the ride height in relation to the tires. It's difficult to see black tires in shadows, so I had to play with the photo's exposure. I still have some minor tweaking to do. It seems that the suspension is still settling. These were even at the shop yesterday. But, adjusting ride height with coilovers is a pretty easy thing that I can do in my garage by simply removing the tire and turning the collars a few turns.

I hope this thread helps someone in the future. This is why I love old-school forums instead of FB and Reddit.