Looking to purchase a Lexus IS300h

[mikejt]

22 minutes ago, zed007 said:

Yes I might give them a shout although I'm really disappointed. Having spent £13.5 you wouldn't expect it. I don't understand how their prep team didn't notice it.

Now the sales chap doesn't seem to think its a problem

It may just be the brakes creaking as you apply them at slow speed in your video. Does car make noise when slowly moving and brakes off?

I've just had mine serviced and they sent link to the workshop inspection video.  Maybe yours wasnt videod as in house dealer service.

You could ask for service paperwork too.

[wharfhouse]

45 minutes ago, zed007 said:

Yes I might give them a shout although I'm really disappointed. Having spent £13.5 you wouldn't expect it. I don't understand how their prep team didn't notice it.

Now the sales chap doesn't seem to think its a problem

You might have to escalate it to the dealer principal as the sales guy will be protecting his commission. It's worth trying to get some better video first to try and identify whether it is something that needs attention or not. Take the car on an hour drive, use the brakes well to scrub the discs it any surface corrosion, then see if the noise is still there and if so find a quiet place to record a video and sent it to the dealer (amd post here). As someone above said you can use distance selling regulations (or maybe there is something in the Lexus sales T&Cs) to threaten rejecting the car but time is ticking on that option. 

[wharfhouse]

17 minutes ago, mikejt said:

It may just be the brakes creaking as you apply them at slow speed in your video. Does car make noise when slowly moving and brakes off?

Yes mine does this especially having been sat for a while. Really needs a bit more methodical testing - brakes off moving for a while, using brakes, and a decent run using the brakes to clear any disc surface contamination and then try again - that way should be able to isolate whether it's coming for the discs/pads. Also wonder what the mileage is - I had my front discs/pads changed at 80k miles as was having wheel bearings changed but they would have probably made it well beyond that. Had rear discs and pads changed at 150k miles due to sticking rear caliper (worn one side out) but again would have lasted much longer other than that. Car could be on original discs/pads or could have been changed - if changed was that done by Lexus or did someone else do it - maybe not properly or with non-OEM parts etc. 

[wharfhouse]

41 minutes ago, zed007 said:

Yes I might give them a shout although I'm really disappointed. Having spent £13.5 you wouldn't expect it. I don't understand how their prep team didn't notice it.

Now the sales chap doesn't seem to think its a problem

Prep team probably didn't notice it as not something they would have been looking or listening for - however if something like very low pads or sticking caliper the service should have picked up on this. Either way, as frustrating as it is, do some driving to make sure everything is warmed up. Get some better video evidence (quiet location), and escalate to the dealer principal. 

[Thackeray]

On 9/23/2024 at 4:44 PM, zed007 said:

I noticed a few things on the car, which are not right.

One of them whilst turning and reversing . I've tried to capture some of it on a video. Is this normal? it was louder when turning.

I noticed from the video that you also hear the noise when the car seems to be completely stationary and reverse gear is engaged. So I wonder if it could be something to do with the gear selector.

This seems a bit unlikely as the gear selector is really just a fake gear selector to make the car look like a traditional automatic. The selector does almost nothing mechanically, if I understand it correctly. Instead it simply sends instructions to the computer to control what the power split device (the transmission) is supposed to do.

The one thing the gear selector does do mechanically, I think, is to engage and disengage the parking pawl on the transmission. Some Toyota/Lexus hybrid transmissions have electronic engagement of the parking pawl but I think this one (model L210 for rear wheel drive cars) has the parking pawl engaged manually as you move the selector.

It seems really unlikely that there's an issue in the transmission. I've never seen any transmission problems reported on this forum. But I can't think what else could be making the noise when you select reverse unless it's loose linkage in the gear selection or something loose in the parking pawl mechanics. This is something I would want to be sure could be ruled out - I wouldn't want to keep a car which had the potential for parts coming loose in the transmission, which, as I've said seems extremely unlikely unless someone has previously dismantled parts of the transmission or gear selection.

Incidentally, I've never heard a similar sound on my now 10-year-old car.

[zed007]

20 minutes ago, Thackeray said:

I noticed from the video that you also hear the noise when the car seems to be completely stationary and reverse gear is engaged. So I wonder if it could be something to do with the gear selector.

This seems a bit unlikely as the gear selector is really just a fake gear selector to make the car look like a traditional automatic. The selector does almost nothing mechanically, if I understand it correctly. Instead it simply sends instructions to the computer to control what the power split device (the transmission) is supposed to do.

The one thing the gear selector does do mechanically, I think, is to engage and disengage the parking pawl on the transmission. Some Toyota/Lexus hybrid transmissions have electronic engagement of the parking pawl but I think this one (model L210 for rear wheel drive cars) has the parking pawl engaged manually as you move the selector.

It seems really unlikely that there's an issue in the transmission. I've never seen any transmission problems reported on this forum. But I can't think what else could be making the noise when you select reverse unless it's loose linkage in the gear selection or something loose in the parking pawl mechanics. This is something I would want to be sure could be ruled out - I wouldn't want to keep a car which had the potential for parts coming loose in the transmission, which, as I've said seems extremely unlikely unless someone has previously dismantled parts of the transmission or gear selection.

Incidentally, I've never heard a similar sound on my now 10-year-old car.

So I just spoke to the manager and he mentioned they had replaced front and rear brake pads discs as the discs were corroded a little. The car has done 47k miles.

He said to give it a few days as it might be the breaks need to be bedded in. 

I'll see how it goes for a few days and hope this goes away

[Thackeray]

According to the Which? guide to your legal rights (see this link), you can reject the car in the first 30 days and get a full refund. Their article says:"In the first 30 days after you buy a car, if it is unfit for purpose, of unsatisfactory quality, or not as described you can ask for a repair or replacement. You are not obliged to accept one and can insist on a full refund, which the dealer will be legally obliged to give."

I think the key phrase to use in any letter of complaint is that the car is "not of satisfactory quality".

Have a look at the Which? guide so that you at least know what your legal rights are. You probably don't want to reject the car as it seems like a hassle. But the threat of doing so may persuade the dealer to take your complaint seriously.

[Thackeray]

4 minutes ago, zed007 said:

He said to give it a few days as it might be the breaks need to be bedded in

It would be good if you could check whether the noise happens when the car is stationary as the video seems to show. If the car is not moving and the footbrake is fully applied as you select reverse, it's difficult to see how the brake discs can generate noise when the brakes are fully on.

Does the noise always happen when you select reverse?

Or in the video is the noise happening as you release the brakes but the car is still stationary?

 

[wharfhouse]

34 minutes ago, zed007 said:

So I just spoke to the manager and he mentioned they had replaced front and rear brake pads discs as the discs were corroded a little. The car has done 47k miles.

He said to give it a few days as it might be the breaks need to be bedded in. 

I'll see how it goes for a few days and hope this goes away

When I had my front discs / pads changed at 80k miles and my rear discs / pads at 150k miles there was no period where they needed "bedding in" - they behaved perfectly normally from day 1 - i.e. no strange noises at all. If the pads haven't been put in right (maybe shims missing) then it could cause some clunking type noises as the pads move a bit on applying / releasing the brake, but if the brakes were done by a Lexus dealer then they should know how to do this right. Have a look at the discs to make sure it's not BS - if they were done just before you got the car (though at 47k miles I'm surprised that they would have done them) then there should be no lipping on the discs at all and they will still be nice and bright with no corrosion (other than  mild surface rust specks if they have been left overnight). If they were changed, then although unlikely it's possible that something wasn't done right and leaving it a while won't make it any better (especially as it was already driven down to you so had some mileage put on it following the change). I'd go out and give the car a run that uses the brakes properly - so reasonably hard braking that means the mechanical brakes come on and it's not just regenerative braking, which is particularly important for the rear brakes as they are actually used very little on the IS 300h unless you do some decent stops. See if there is any difference once that is done.

[zed007]

Spent a bit of time with the car and it mainly happens when braking and lifting the foot off the brake

 

 

 

[Notamech]

1 hour ago, zed007 said:

So I just spoke to the manager and he mentioned they had replaced front and rear brake pads discs as the discs were corroded a little. The car has done 47k miles.

He said to give it a few days as it might be the breaks need to be bedded in. 

I'll see how it goes for a few days and hope this goes away

Sorry mate sounds like BS after BS to me. I just did the front brakes and pads on mine myself. They were as silent as i expected them to be after a short 7 mile drive. You said it yourself they drove the car to you approx 300 miles it doesnt need any more "bedding in" the only noise you hear after new brakes and pads is within the first couple of brake applications after which the pads "settle into" the hardware and you shouldn't hear any more noise. Unless the pads are still making contact when your foot is off the pedal indicating a seized caliper or slide pins. Also you said the noise comes even when brakes are not applied so its unlikely to be the brakes. To be fair the noise does sound like brake noise when you half apply brakes and try moving the car at the same time. Maybe investigate it a bit further at your end and see under what specific circumstances the noise comes. Another thing to check is in drive take your foot off the pedal but dont hit the accelerator the car should crawl forward on its own if not then the brakes are sticking.

[Notamech]

14 minutes ago, zed007 said:

Spent a bit of time with the car and it mainly happens when braking and lifting the foot off the brake

 

 

 

Yup that sounds normal if its only when you press the pedal. Its because youre not applying sufficient pressure and the wheels are turning while the pads are still contacting the discs hence the noise. Press the brake hard and let go fast (dont half apply) and you wont hear that noise.

[wharfhouse]

27 minutes ago, zed007 said:

Spent a bit of time with the car and it mainly happens when braking and lifting the foot off the brake

 

 

 

Have you also got a video of going forwards? Now we can hear it better it doesn't sound so unusual. The "groan" noise is as the pad releases and is common - I find mine do it more after being stood for a while. After a good run they don't do it so much. Been the same since I've had the car. The "clunk" sounds like the pad engaging the disc and unless excessive I would say is normal. However, what I have found is that the brakes make slightly different noises when reversing as to going forwards (so why I said have you got a video going forwards). I used to get some brake squeal when reversing too (though that seems to have gone since I had the new disc and pads on the rear) but never when going forwards. I would assume that all the shims etc. are designed to make sure the pads don't move going forward. May be worth doing the same video going forwards and see how that sounds. But overall a lot less worrying (and may be no issue at all other then normal noises) than it seemed from the first video. The good news also is that those discs look brand new front and rear and so they weren't BS about that, that's saved you quite a bit of money as you should get close to 100k miles from the front and the rears could be 200k miles, notwithstanding anything else such as a sticking caliper.

[zed007]

4 hours ago, Thackeray said:

According to the Which? guide to your legal rights (see this link), you can reject the car in the first 30 days and get a full refund. Their article says:"In the first 30 days after you buy a car, if it is unfit for purpose, of unsatisfactory quality, or not as described you can ask for a repair or replacement. You are not obliged to accept one and can insist on a full refund, which the dealer will be legally obliged to give."

I think the key phrase to use in any letter of complaint is that the car is "not of satisfactory quality".

Have a look at the Which? guide so that you at least know what your legal rights are. You probably don't want to reject the car as it seems like a hassle. But the threat of doing so may persuade the dealer to take your complaint seriously.

Going to give this a few days and see if the noise goes away.

Went to see a chap who live close to me and has the is300h and his car is very quiet when reversing/moving forward and braking.

My brother's ct200h is very quiet also

 

 

[zed007]

2 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Have you also got a video of going forwards? Now we can hear it better it doesn't sound so unusual. The "groan" noise is as the pad releases and is common - I find mine do it more after being stood for a while. After a good run they don't do it so much. Been the same since I've had the car. The "clunk" sounds like the pad engaging the disc and unless excessive I would say is normal. However, what I have found is that the brakes make slightly different noises when reversing as to going forwards (so why I said have you got a video going forwards). I used to get some brake squeal when reversing too (though that seems to have gone since I had the new disc and pads on the rear) but never when going forwards. I would assume that all the shims etc. are designed to make sure the pads don't move going forward. May be worth doing the same video going forwards and see how that sounds. But overall a lot less worrying (and may be no issue at all other then normal noises) than it seemed from the first video. The good news also is that those discs look brand new front and rear and so they weren't BS about that, that's saved you quite a bit of money as you should get close to 100k miles from the front and the rears could be 200k miles, notwithstanding anything else such as a sticking caliper.

I will spend bit more time on this including recording whilst going forward and will post the video. I honestly don't think this is normal though

[wharfhouse]

9 minutes ago, zed007 said:

I will spend bit more time on this including recording whilst going forward and will post the video. I honestly don't think this is normal though

If you have a direct comparison with another IS 300h as above then that is the best way to know if it's right or not - it's difficult on a video to judge. If the noise is excessive - especially if it's making a clunking noise, then it could be the pads moving slightly as the brakes are applied which should be sorted out (maybe something not secured properly or shims not in place etc.) - the "groan" noises on releasing the brake and after coming to a complete stop are common though as the disc starts to move against the pads slightly.

[Thackeray]

21 minutes ago, zed007 said:

I will spend bit more time on this including recording whilst going forward and will post the video. I honestly don't think this is normal though

I don't think it sounds normal either. When you're doing more recording and checking what happens, it would be worth checking what happens when the car doesn't move at all while you select drive or reverse.

On your first video it sounded as though when you selected reverse it made the noise before the car was moving. Does it always do this? Does the sound occur while the gear selector is moving? Or is it while the brakes are gradually being released?

If it happens when the car is stationary as well as when it is moving this might help to establish what's causing the sound.

[wharfhouse]

Just now, Thackeray said:

I don't think it sounds normal either. When you're doing more recording and checking what happens, it would be worth checking what happens when the car doesn't move at all while you select drive or reverse.

On your first video it sounded as though when you selected reverse it made the noise before the car was moving. Does it always do this? Does the sound occur while the gear selector is moving? Or is it while the brakes are gradually being released?

If it happens when the car is stationary as well as when it is moving this might help to establish what's causing the sound.

The brakes cab make a slight "groan" when selecting D or R if the brake pedal isn't hard down as there is slight power applied as it goes into D or R causing the discs to move slightly against the pads - but it's only a slight noise but can be heard on the car. 

[zed007]

Managed to get a bit of recording when going forward slowly, its not great but hopefully you can hear it

 

 

I did sent the video to my local Lexus dealer and he said it can be a few things including "if the noise is more persistent from the rear, it could potentially need a new Rear Shim Kit."

 

[wharfhouse]

2 hours ago, zed007 said:

Managed to get a bit of recording when going forward slowly, its not great but hopefully you can hear it

 

 

 

I did sent the video to my local Lexus dealer and he said it can be a few things including "if the noise is more persistent from the rear, it could potentially need a new Rear Shim Kit."

 

Difficult to tell still from the video - your best comparison is probably against another IS 300h as you have done - gievb the new discs and pads, something about the shims are probably the best call at the moment for the sort of noises you are getting if they are worse than another IS 300h.

[zed007]

2 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Difficult to tell still from the video - your best comparison is probably against another IS 300h as you have done - gievb the new discs and pads, something about the shims are probably the best call at the moment for the sort of noises you are getting if they are worse than another IS 300h.

are shims covered by the warranty?

[wharfhouse]

8 minutes ago, zed007 said:

are shims covered by the warranty?

I would have thought they would be covered by the Used Car Warranty given that they changed the discs / pads before you purchased the car.

[IS300FSPORT]

Check the front anti-roll bar links a clunk is usually from that or worst case the front shock absorbers are worn out look for a fluid leak.  Can't see it being the lower/upper control arms if low mileage. 

Them brakes looking at the video look newish so doubt it's the brakes unless they didn't torque the bolts up properly. 

[zed007]

3 minutes ago, IS300FSPORT said:

Check the front anti-roll bar links a clunk is usually from that or worst case the front shock absorbers are worn out look for a fluid leak.  Can't see it being the lower/upper control arms if low mileage. 

Them brakes looking at the video look newish so doubt it's the brakes unless they didn't torque the bolts up properly. 

Thanks. I spoke to another mechanic and he said it sounds suspension related but can't see the car for a couple of weeks

[wharfhouse]

4 minutes ago, zed007 said:

Thanks. I spoke to another mechanic and he said it sounds suspension related but can't see the car for a couple of weeks

I'd be very surprised if it's suspension at that low mileage if it is all original - I've done 152k miles in mine and no suspension issues (just had a service and MoT by Lexus and all good) but I suppose there can always be a rogue component. To be sure that this is resolved it does sound like you're going to have to get the car looked at by Lexus under the Used Car Warranty to get to the bottom of your concerns.