Lexus UK statement on vehicle theft - RX continued

[GSLV6]

I think that the main reason for poorer RX5 sales is down to two things.  Firstly, the unjustifiable price hike and secondly, the IL4 engines.  Customers for the RX want refinement which just doesn't include a buzzy and louder IL4 working harder.  They just don't pull as well from low revs unless you get the range topping RX500 turbo.  There's cheaper, and frankly, just as capable competition in the Volvo XC90 for that which also come in quite a hotted up version.  Comparatively, the post facelift models of the RX4 were their best selling, and possibly the best and most refined version of the RX.  They've however made RX3's a very attractive option for those buying used as a really good late 2015 RX3 can be had for around £18K with low miles at dealerships.  My old RX3 F Sport sold for £19K.

[FredD]

On 7/16/2024 at 4:22 PM, Dippo said:

 

What I am saying here is obvious but this issue is clearly having an impact on insurance premiums. Using a comparison website I have checked today how much it would cost to renew the insurance of my RX 4th generation compared to a 2023 RX 450h+ and the difference is around £400 (the 2023 is around £400 cheaper to insure despite the value of the car being significantly more)

[GSLV6]

It won't change for a good year or two until the number of attempted thefts decrease significantly.  This should start to filter through with the proposed security enhancements and some insurers will offer discounts for a sold secure Gold or Diamond steering wheel lock fitted when the car is parked up, and if a tracker is fitted.  

[talaipwros]

On 7/17/2024 at 4:30 AM, PDM said:

It is interesting, however, to look at RX gen 5 sales figures.  They are much lower than when gen 4 was launched, so perhaps many RX3 customers upgraded quickly but very few RX4 customers are changing to RX5, perhaps because of the engine, or the thefts. Lexus sales figures are now dominated by the LBX and UX rather than the larger vehicles. NX also significant.

The engine, the more reliable infotainment and the vast depreciation.

Why should I give 35K for essentially the same car with a smaller engine in under 2 years of ownership?

 

I will just hand the keys back when the PCP is over. ( if not sooner, as I paid 20K deposit so I can actully return it in a few months if so I wish)

[Tickedon]

On 7/17/2024 at 4:30 AM, PDM said:

It is interesting, however, to look at RX gen 5 sales figures.  They are much lower than when gen 4 was launched, so perhaps many RX3 customers upgraded quickly but very few RX4 customers are changing to RX5, perhaps because of the engine, or the thefts. Lexus sales figures are now dominated by the LBX and UX rather than the larger vehicles. NX also significant.

For the first six months of 2024...

LBX = 2497
NX (inc PHEV) = 1985
UX (inc UXe) = 1432
RZ = 1033
RX (inc PHEV) = 612
ES = 418

RX (inc RXL) used to achieve 2-2.5k cars per year, so there has indeed been a big drop, but there's also been a big drop in ES sales as well. Given the RZ is a similar size, it may be some buyers have moved across to that?

[PDM]

57 minutes ago, Tickedon said:

For the first six months of 2024...

LBX = 2497
NX (inc PHEV) = 1985
UX (inc UXe) = 1432
RZ = 1033
RX (inc PHEV) = 612
ES = 418

RX (inc RXL) used to achieve 2-2.5k cars per year, so there has indeed been a big drop, but there's also been a big drop in ES sales as well. Given the RZ is a similar size, it may be some buyers have moved across to that?

I hadn't really considered that.  I guess some could have but I would expect it to be quite a small number.  I think more likely they moved to NX.

Paul

[larryadler]

19 hours ago, talaipwros said:

The engine, the more reliable infotainment and the vast depreciation.

Why should I give 35K for essentially the same car with a smaller engine in under 2 years of ownership?

 

I will just hand the keys back when the PCP is over. ( if not sooner, as I paid 20K deposit so I can actully return it in a few months if so I wish)

 

19 hours ago, talaipwros said:

The engine, the more reliable infotainment and the vast depreciation.

Why should I give 35K for essentially the same car with a smaller engine in under 2 years of ownership?

 

I will just hand the keys back when the PCP is over. ( if not sooner, as I paid 20K deposit so I can actully return it in a few months if so I wish)

I am in exactly the same situation as yourself.

It is certainly a consideration to just hand it back, which depends I would suggest on your final settlement figure.

I tend to agree also, I think the RX5 is a super motor, but I just have this feeling that the bean counters have been at work for this model. My son has the RX5, and with the price increase to £71k, it makes my settlement for my RX4, more palatable. 
I have to ask, where else are you going to get a V6 petrol hybrid, with good mpg, reliability, and a 10 year warranty.

When my time comes, it will be a difficult choice, but I am airing on the side of keeping it, unless the Labour government make it financially unviable.

[larryadler]

On 7/16/2024 at 1:37 PM, talaipwros said:

Just to let you know that LV doesn't insure ANY lexus vehicle any more

From what I understand , Lexus insurance don’t either 😂🤣

[FredD]

I have now decided to part with my RX4 because of this theft issue, I do not want sleepless nights especially when I travel and park in places that are not 100% secure. I will contact their customer service to see if they can give me a good price for it (it would have to be more than what it is currently valued) and move to an RX 5th generation. This was not my initial plan, I wanted to keep it and get an RZ as a second car but life is too short and I do not want to add more worries. 

[GSLV6]

Good luck with that Fred but don't hold out for a good price from Lexus.  They offered me 5K less for my RX3 than they sold it for (robbing gits), prior to that telling me "it wasn't worth any more than that" despite it being £2K under book value.  The only reason I went ahead was I lucked out on the exact car, in the colour I wanted, at the spec I wanted and with basically running in miles, and saved a heap of depreciation. 

Their pricing is quite rigid and I'd hazard a guess that to trade from an 18 plate premier with average miles to a new 5th gen RX450 equivalent will cost you your car plus at least £35K to £40K.  A new RX450+ in Premier trim with say a protection pack and metallic paint will set you back £64K.  If I traded mine now I'd have to give them £30K more on top of what I paid for mine for a new £70K 450+ F sport.  Not a chance in hell I'd be remotely tempted. 

New IL4 is a more highly stressed, busier engine and as far as reliability goes the jury's out on those as whilst they work well in an ES, dropping one into a 2.2t car is asking a lot.  Far more plastics under the hood from cooling system to valve covers and water pumps.  It all is the extreme opposite of the robust over engineering of early 430V8's, 300IL6 and V6 motors and of course the 3.5L V6 which have all proved themselves in the long run, because they were built for the long term. 

Lexus does not seem to be making cars to endure as they once did.  Don't even get me started on the fake leather....Even their Takumi master craftsmen are no longer required to bring on 12 year apprenticeship craftsmen for making the leather seats in the LS and RX models as they once were and things like panel gaps are not as good as the last generation cars.  They're producing cheaper cars to manufacture and selling them for more with the same old mantra of luxury and world class standards, which they're not any longer.

[Ken R]

13 hours ago, FredD said:

I have now decided to part with my RX4 because of this theft issue, I do not want sleepless nights especially when I travel and park in places that are not 100% secure. I will contact their customer service to see if they can give me a good price for it (it would have to be more than what it is currently valued) and move to an RX 5th generation. This was not my initial plan, I wanted to keep it and get an RZ as a second car but life is too short and I do not want to add more worries. 

The 5th gen RX is superb but I would recommend that anyone considering purchasing should do it using Lexus finance PCP where the current offer is at a very competitive APR of 1.9% - saving your capital and giving a fixed future valuation.

[GSLV6]

I had my tracker installed this morning.  It's supplied by Lexus FoC for a 3 year period after which the customer will have to pick up subscription costs.  The company is called "Tracker" and in the event you car's stolen, the police are equipped with the tech to track and find your vehicle.

There's a card you receive with your unique tracker registration, they don't tell you (for obvious reasons) where the tracker is installed.  You call the police, get a crime reference nr then call tracker and they supply the police with the details o recover your vehicle.  No real time apps for customers unfortunately.  It's only activated in the event of a theft.

Next security update from what I gather is more to prevent wireless hacks so imho is a waste of time as you can do this yourself by going into your car menu and disabling the keyless transmitter so you have to have the keyfob and use the buttons to physically open doors and start the car.

So...effectively, they are introducing one thing at a time a month or two apart with the next roll out for the canbus linked additional security in a month or two (some will already be booked in as it's on a customer list which is already active) with the higher canbus software changes a bit further down the line (Oct/Nov/Dec).  My comment was "too little too late".  If you've not had anything from your local dealer, best to contact them now to get yours booked in and on the conveyor belt.

[talaipwros]

2 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

I had my tracker installed this morning.  It's supplied by Lexus FoC for a 3 year period after which the customer will have to pick up subscription costs.  The company is called "Tracker" and in the event you car's stolen, the police are equipped with the tech to track and find your vehicle.

There's a card you receive with your unique tracker registration, they don't tell you (for obvious reasons) where the tracker is installed.  You call the police, get a crime reference nr then call tracker and they supply the police with the details o recover your vehicle.  No real time apps for customers unfortunately.  It's only activated in the event of a theft.

 

I had "Tracker" installed on day 1, it does have an app...

[larryadler]

I have said it before, and I say it again, Tracker is not the answer, and in the present times, it will make little or no difference.

Is the Tracker that is being fitted, a Thatcham approved device, and I’m pretty sure, this will have no effect on RX4 insurance premiums.

Years ago, Tracker was an excellent  tool, not just to locate the vehicle, but also, when activated Police WOULD track the vehicle, and make arrests.

Today, Tracker, will enable Police/ private companies, employed by vehicle insurers to locate the vehicle, but it will be abandoned (with canbus damage) the only positive is the return of the vehicle.

Of course, if the vehicle is already in a container ready for shipping, Tracker won’t work!
In conclusion, this is another sticking plaster, instead of addressing a permanent fix for the CANBUS issues 

[wharfhouse]

4 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

I had my tracker installed this morning.  It's supplied by Lexus FoC for a 3 year period after which the customer will have to pick up subscription costs.  The company is called "Tracker" and in the event you car's stolen, the police are equipped with the tech to track and find your vehicle.

There's a card you receive with your unique tracker registration, they don't tell you (for obvious reasons) where the tracker is installed.  You call the police, get a crime reference nr then call tracker and they supply the police with the details o recover your vehicle.  No real time apps for customers unfortunately.  It's only activated in the event of a theft.

Next security update from what I gather is more to prevent wireless hacks so imho is a waste of time as you can do this yourself by going into your car menu and disabling the keyless transmitter so you have to have the keyfob and use the buttons to physically open doors and start the car.

So...effectively, they are introducing one thing at a time a month or two apart with the next roll out for the canbus linked additional security in a month or two (some will already be booked in as it's on a customer list which is already active) with the higher canbus software changes a bit further down the line (Oct/Nov/Dec).  My comment was "too little too late".  If you've not had anything from your local dealer, best to contact them now to get yours booked in and on the conveyor belt.

The Tracker sounds like it's from: https://www.tracker.co.uk/ - I had one of those fitted back in 1997 to a BMW. It's interesting in that it's not GPS based but VHF - so not blocked in the usual way, and apparently even works inside containers. As you said, police cars are supposed to be equipped so that if a car passes them with an activated tracker they will pick it up - what action they will actually take in this day and age though I'm not sure, but in theory it might lead them to the source of crime. However, agreed that it's no substitute alone for the a CANBus fix and until that is in place I certainly wouldn't consider buying any Lexus / Toyota of the age where this is still a vulnerability.

[jim neal]

18 hours ago, talaipwros said:

I had "Tracker" installed on day 1, it does have an app...

I believe that only the S5+ has the tracker app. I doubt Lexus would pay the price for the S5+ model.

[GSLV6]

Correct.  It's not the S5+.  It is, however, VHF based so easily traced within most urban environments by the police.

[Mincey]

On 7/16/2024 at 1:37 PM, talaipwros said:

Just to let you know that LV doesn't insure ANY lexus vehicle any more

They were quite happy to insure mine when I rang them to say I'd changed cars a few weeks ago.

[talaipwros]

2 hours ago, Mincey said:

They were quite happy to insure mine when I rang them to say I'd changed cars a few weeks ago.

Well, things may have changed, I got this information from the Lexus dealer.

[jim neal]

On 7/22/2024 at 12:20 PM, GSLV6 said:

I had my tracker installed this morning.  It's supplied by Lexus FoC for a 3 year period after which the customer will have to pick up subscription costs.  The company is called "Tracker" and in the event you car's stolen, the police are equipped with the tech to track and find your vehicle.

There's a card you receive with your unique tracker registration, they don't tell you (for obvious reasons) where the tracker is installed.  You call the police, get a crime reference nr then call tracker and they supply the police with the details o recover your vehicle.  No real time apps for customers unfortunately.  It's only activated in the event of a theft.

Next security update from what I gather is more to prevent wireless hacks so imho is a waste of time as you can do this yourself by going into your car menu and disabling the keyless transmitter so you have to have the keyfob and use the buttons to physically open doors and start the car.

So...effectively, they are introducing one thing at a time a month or two apart with the next roll out for the canbus linked additional security in a month or two (some will already be booked in as it's on a customer list which is already active) with the higher canbus software changes a bit further down the line (Oct/Nov/Dec).  My comment was "too little too late".  If you've not had anything from your local dealer, best to contact them now to get yours booked in and on the conveyor belt.

Can you confirm which S7 Tracker model was fitted ? 

[GSLV6]

I don't know which they fitted except it sounds like it's one of the Thatcham S7 models.  All I have is the card which gives the serial nr and phone nr to call in the event you need the tracker activated.  

[Toyota Owner]

Sounding very much like the Tracker S7 Retrieve going by the function descriptions plus having to call to report the theft & activate the tracking function. 

[First_Lexus]

On 7/20/2024 at 5:54 PM, FredD said:

I have now decided to part with my RX4 because of this theft issue, I do not want sleepless nights especially when I travel and park in places that are not 100% secure. I will contact their customer service to see if they can give me a good price for it (it would have to be more than what it is currently valued) and move to an RX 5th generation. This was not my initial plan, I wanted to keep it and get an RZ as a second car but life is too short and I do not want to add more worries. 

@FredD

Based on my recent experience, use CarWow (or similar) and look to trade in and buy outside of London and the Home Counties. I queried why Lexus Reading were so low with their part-ex valuation on my 2021 RX and they (very honestly and very foolishly) told me that prices in and around London were depressed because of insurance and resale difficulties…

…that LED me further afield where prices were not thus affected and Reading lost their sale to Swindon who gave £1500 more in part-ex (and a much larger discount on the new Toyota too). 

As I noted on another thread, for reasons I don’t fully understand, part-ex valuations for me were much better in July than they were in May when I started looking, perhaps because of the security plates and promise of better resolutions to come? Or perhaps just the second hand market, or something else…but shop around, be willing to travel and good luck!

[Sybaris]

From my understanding, there will be rewritten software, its just slow coming across to the UK

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

On 7/6/2024 at 7:23 PM, GSLV6 said:

Still no update, despite the "we should hear in two weeks time" message I received three weeks ago 🙄

To rub salt in, the would be thieves I noticed have dented the mid point of my nearside rear door top chrome trim.  "No problem" I mused, "...it's probably a £20 strip of chrome taking minutes to replace...".  Lexus quoted me £253 to replace it, including an hour's labour at £195!  They're slowly but surely alienating any loyal customers remaining in the UK.  I've seen this sort of arrogance in pricing at premium levels before and it never works out well for those doing it.  When will they learn?  I'd rather not be paying for swish dealerships, fancy coffee, VIP days and the Christmas bubbly thanks all the same Lexus.  I'd rather walk into a wooden hut with instant decaf and some stools if it meant customers got car care needs at reasonable real world pricing.  To coin a few lyrics "It don't impress me much"!

Now, had they addressed the canbus scandal sooner and more effectively, I'd not have minded as much but this is the last straw for me, and the last Lexus I'll buy.

Very Profound Paul.. !!! Totally Agree..!!