RX500H VS RX450H+ WHICH ONE IS REALLY BETTER..

[lexus.gs.uk]

Looking at the rx500h on autotrader 2023 models where about 77k new now around 5k miles on it they are 50 to 55k

I dont think it will hold its value that well 

[Spock66]

51 minutes ago, lexus.gs.uk said:

I dont think it will hold its value that well 

But that could also make it a good used buy.

[lexus.gs.uk]

Yes for sure .. i do not buy brand new cars unless im sure enough to keep it for 10 years plus but that is never the case..  i prefer to wait for a 3 to 4 year old low mileage example and have a better idea of the vehicle before purchase...

[GSLV6]

The 350h is not a good direct comparison with the older 4th gen 450h and is an all new model rather than a direct replacement.  Having had a chance now to try one, it feels rather gutless by comparison. 

The 450h+ plug is probably closer as a comparison but due to larger battery/power available from the motors has more electrical power on tap.

You can get an idea of comparisons looking at combined BHP and here the 450+ and v6 450h are very similar, with the older V6 just pipping the 450h+ with 308 bhp v's 304bhp.

 

Yes, the 500 is not meant to be the replacement to the older one, and I didn't really suggest that it was...anywhere.  I was commenting on comparisons on efficiency.

Whist it's true that the 450h+ is more fuel efficient with fully charged batteries, does this remain the case once the Battery charge has depleted?  I can't think that could be the case as some of the car's motive power must then be diverted to maintain a minimum charge in the Battery pack?

[lexus.gs.uk]

Good point so when Battery is depleted does the Battery reserve power to give out the full 304bhp i was under the impression the rx450+ has 2 Battery one for the EV range only then once that has depleted it goes to hybrid power and still maintains its full power output  of 304 bhp or does the hybrid of the 450h+ uses one Battery pack to run the EV range then goes on to hybrid mode once depleted 🤔🤔

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, GSLV6 said:

The 350h is not a good direct comparison with the older 4th gen 450h and is an all new model rather than a direct replacement.  Having had a chance now to try one, it feels rather gutless by comparison. 

The 450h+ plug is probably closer as a comparison but due to larger battery/power available from the motors has more electrical power on tap.

It certainly gives up some power but it is the only model that directly compares. The 450h+ is a PHEV and the 500h has a higher performance turbo charged/auto transmission drivetrain for a different type of customer.

Certainly Lexus designed the 350h has a replacement based on their press information

"This 2.5-litre petrol drivetrain provides 247bhp/184kW and 0-62mph acceleration in 7.9 seconds, performance comparable with the current RX 450h, while at the same time producing lower emissions."

1 hour ago, GSLV6 said:

Yes, the 500 is not meant to be the replacement to the older one, and I didn't really suggest that it was...anywhere.  I was commenting on comparisons on efficiency.

A higher performance model is never going to be as efficient - your comparison on efficiency suggests you are thinking it is a replacement whereas it is aimed at a different type of buyer who's priority is not efficiency.

 

1 hour ago, GSLV6 said:

Whist it's true that the 450h+ is more fuel efficient with fully charged batteries, does this remain the case once the battery charge has depleted?  I can't think that could be the case as some of the car's motive power must then be diverted to maintain a minimum charge in the battery pack?

It's no different than with the older 450h. Once the Battery is depleted, full power cannot be achieved. But that rarely happens, the system will always store some energy in the Battery when full power isn't being delivered so that it is available when it is called for.

Whether you manually switch to hybrid mode, or it is forced because the Battery charge is low, based on owners here you can expect to get around 50 mpg. If you charge up and operate in EV mode then you are getting up to 235 mpg in PHEV / mpg measurement.

 

 

1 hour ago, lexus.gs.uk said:

Good point so when battery is depleted does the battery reserve power to give out the full 304bhp i was under the impression the rx450+ has 2 battery one for the EV range only then once that has depleted it goes to hybrid power and still maintains its full power output  of 304 bhp or does the hybrid of the 450h+ uses one battery pack to run the EV range then goes on to hybrid mode once depleted

There is only one Battery. If the Battery depletes to a point where EV running isn't possible, but where some energy remains, it switches to a hybrid system and the same rules apply as with a traditional hybrid - you should get full system power provided you don't try and sustain full power indefinitely where the Battery can no longer provide any assistance.

In hybrid mode, the vehicle benefits from a larger Battery compared to the older 450h - that makes it more efficient, along with the more efficient petrol engine. The traditional hybrids are compromised on Battery size due to cost and space constraints. As the PHEV has a much larger Battery, it can make use of that greater energy store even when just running as a normal hybrid.

[lexus.gs.uk]

37 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

It certainly gives up some power but it is the only model that directly compares. The 450h+ is a PHEV and the 500h has a higher performance turbo charged/auto transmission drivetrain for a different type of customer.

Certainly Lexus designed the 350h has a replacement based on their press information

"This 2.5-litre petrol drivetrain provides 247bhp/184kW and 0-62mph acceleration in 7.9 seconds, performance comparable with the current RX 450h, while at the same time producing lower emissions."

A higher performance model is never going to be as efficient - your comparison on efficiency suggests you are thinking it is a replacement whereas it is aimed at a different type of buyer who's priority is not efficiency.

 

It's no different than with the older 450h. Once the battery is depleted, full power cannot be achieved. But that rarely happens, the system will always store some energy in the battery when full power isn't being delivered so that it is available when it is called for.

Whether you manually switch to hybrid mode, or it is forced because the battery charge is low, based on owners here you can expect to get around 50 mpg. If you charge up and operate in EV mode then you are getting up to 235 mpg in PHEV / mpg measurement.

 

 

There is only one battery. If the battery depletes to a point where EV running isn't possible, but where some energy remains, it switches to a hybrid system and the same rules apply as with a traditional hybrid - you should get full system power provided you don't try and sustain full power indefinitely where the battery can no longer provide any assistance.

In hybrid mode, the vehicle benefits from a larger battery compared to the older 450h - that makes it more efficient, along with the more efficient petrol engine. The traditional hybrids are compromised on battery size due to cost and space constraints. As the PHEV has a much larger battery, it can make use of that greater energy store even when just running as a normal hybrid.

Ok got you, seems like a well thought out system and the batteries seem to be pretty reliable on hybrids .. 

 

Finally reliabilty wise out the 2 models i need to think about is any of the 2 big problems which might occur is..

Rx500h turbo or transmission going out.

RX450H Battery pack

i am guessing the 450h+ would be more reliable due to N/A engine and lexus good track record of hybrids  but i could be wrong .. 2.5 turbo is something new and not a lot of data on reliability at the moment. 

 

  

 

[Spock66]

42 minutes ago, lexus.gs.uk said:

Finally reliabilty wise out the 2 models i need to think about is any of the 2 big problems which might occur is..

Yeah, but you would have warranty cover up to 10-years / 100,000 miles with the Relax scheme.

[Spottedlaurel]

And up to 15 years on the Battery with an annual hybrid health check, if they maintain the current arrangement.

If it's feasible I would be happy to change to a 450H+ in a few years, it feels like a good compromise. I had a drive in one last year and the fact that it runs in EV mode for more of the time and at higher speeds outweighed my concerns about it not having a V6.

I wonder if the 500H was introduced to tempt buyers from other SUVs, who might be wary about the CVT? It seems a little odd for them to move away from the well-proven CVT set-up which is such a feature of the Lexus/Toyota hybrid range. I'm sure it's a great drive, but might it become a newer version of the 4th gen RX200T?

One aspect I like about the 450H+ is that in Premium trim level it comes with 19" wheels, whereas the high-spec models have 21". The chunkier tyres are much better-suited to my driving in the countryside, and will hopefully make for a wider choice of replacements.

[GSLV6]

Certainly, performance wise, the 450h+ is a better direct comparison with the V6, phev or not....

On 8/27/2024 at 9:45 PM, ColinBarber said:

It certainly gives up some power but it is the only model that directly compares. The 450h+ is a PHEV and the 500h has a higher performance turbo charged/auto transmission drivetrain for a different type of customer.

Certainly Lexus designed the 350h has a replacement based on their press information

"This 2.5-litre petrol drivetrain provides 247bhp/184kW and 0-62mph acceleration in 7.9 seconds, performance comparable with the current RX 450h, while at the same time producing lower emissions."

A higher performance model is never going to be as efficient - your comparison on efficiency suggests you are thinking it is a replacement whereas it is aimed at a different type of buyer who's priority is not efficiency.

 

It's no different than with the older 450h. Once the battery is depleted, full power cannot be achieved. But that rarely happens, the system will always store some energy in the battery when full power isn't being delivered so that it is available when it is called for.

Whether you manually switch to hybrid mode, or it is forced because the battery charge is low, based on owners here you can expect to get around 50 mpg. If you charge up and operate in EV mode then you are getting up to 235 mpg in PHEV / mpg measurement.

 

 

There is only one battery. If the battery depletes to a point where EV running isn't possible, but where some energy remains, it switches to a hybrid system and the same rules apply as with a traditional hybrid - you should get full system power provided you don't try and sustain full power indefinitely where the battery can no longer provide any assistance.

In hybrid mode, the vehicle benefits from a larger battery compared to the older 450h - that makes it more efficient, along with the more efficient petrol engine. The traditional hybrids are compromised on battery size due to cost and space constraints. As the PHEV has a much larger battery, it can make use of that greater energy store even when just running as a normal hybrid.

No.  I have not suggested nor implied anywhere that the 500 is a direct replacement, despite your insistence Coin 😉 but it doesn't need to be to hold comparisons.  Yes, it's going to be less fuel efficient, a smaller, turbocharged engine pulling a similar mass.  The extra performance is not all that relevant on UK roads as the 450h V6 has more than enough for safe acceleration when overtaking for example.  I sort of fail to see the point of it other than to keep up with the Jones' (in this case being other performance SUVs).

Yes, I've read Lexus UK's statement on the 350h being the most direct replacement for the outgoing 450 but it fails to achieve that.  It has less power and is noisier under acceleration.  The 450h+ is more comparable on power, as stated above, being 304bhp so it is fair to draw the comparison there, phev or not.  If I was in the market for a gen 5 (and I will never be in that market) the 450h+ seems to me, to be the sweet spot of the bunch.

End of day, I'm not seeking agreement to any of these points, as it's all absolutely personal choice and opinion.  The only opinion that really matters is the one of the person making the choice.

[ColinBarber]

When the 450h+ launched it had a £5k premium over the 350h - that is a lot if you aren't able to, or don't want to, plug in and charge to make use of the extra benefit it provides. Now Lexus has lowered the price to under £2k difference to help offset some of the penalties they will pay for not selling enough EVs, the 350h sales will no doubt suffer and I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus consolidate the range in the UK at some point. The 500h will probably go - I suspect Lexus need the different options in the US and other markets, but once they understand which one(s) sell in the UK the other will be removed.

[GSLV6]

I tend to agree Colin.  I think in a few years, perhaps the phev will be the only option based on the low sales of the previous 200t turbo options for NX and RX vehicles which always sold in much lower numbers than the hybrids.  Given the choice of the 350h and 450h+, the only people perhaps being put off the h+ model may be those with on street parking and no practical means of charging.

[lexus.gs.uk]

Hi all does the plug in be charged from the home socket or does it need some sort of conversion.

Also i forgot to ask how is the ride height compared to sedans i really hate a SUV that has a car like sitting position, i like to sit a bit higher not to high just a clearer view.

[Ken R]

The PHEV 450h can either be plugged into a standard 3 pin socket (fuĺl charge will take around 8 hours) or via a 7kw home or public  wallbox(full charge in 2.5 hours). Cables for both are supplied with the car.

Ride height is higher than a saloon and having now driven either the NX or RX from Lexus over the past 6 years getting into a saloon is noticeably lower!

[Steve44]

As a 500h owner over 1.5yrs and 20k+ miles can answer a few questions.

my useage type is mostly motorway with only some town and B road. 

Summer mpg on motorway is high 30’s, occasionally low 40’s depending on how quick I wish to progress. Town driving can be anywhere from low 20’s to 40+ depending on how well you can maximise the small hybrid Battery. After trying all the various modes, I’ve settled on driving it almost exclusively in Eco mode, which seems to give a better throttle pedal travel map, allows easier slow speed use of EV mode, doesn’t change power or delivery at out of town speeds.

Winter, can knock 10-15% off above.

The gearbox is conventional 6spd auto, it’s ok, quick to shift not noisy, tends to hold its gears occasionally. 

Car is pretty swift, especially in gear times, 30-70, or 50-100 it is more than capable of embarrassing many a more conventionally sporty car! 
 

it’s definitely setup as Fsport only with a more sporty intent. The rear wheel steer gives it a lovely turn in and pivot, makes it quite agile. On downside the suspension gives way too much body roll and head toss, so spirited driving on a and b roads can be a rolly polly experience. Sport mode on dampers doesn’t improve much other than make the ride stiffer. I did need to use it on the German autobahn to reduce a floaty feeling in excess of 100 though.

Tyres on mine were Michelin Pilot Sport4, I need to look to replace the fronts now at 24k, rest of the car has been virtually faultless apart from a few software niggles and recalls for minor things. Unheard of for me for what was a launch model.

[lexus.gs.uk]

Hi is the rx500h made in japan and it seems like city and A TO B roads are just about fine.. did you ever get over 40mpg on a run im wonderimg how the rx500h compares to my gs450h compares on fuel economy  .. v6 hybrid vs 2.4 turbo hybrid...

[Steve44]

European Rx are Japan made, American RX are USA made.

Have had a couple of low 40mpg runs over 150-200mile motorway journeys. Generally need to keep speed down, flatish roads and summer time though…..

[ColinBarber]

10 hours ago, Steve44 said:

European Rx are Japan made, North American RX are Canadian made.

 

[GSLV6]

I hope for the sake of 500h owners that the rear wheel steering is more reliable than the system previously used on the GS450 which when it went wrong cost an arm and a leg to fix.  I never understood why this was necessary when the Mk3 GSv6 was a fine handling machine without such complexities.

[lexus.gs.uk]

Is the design of the rear wheel steering on the rx500h same as the gs450 f sports or a stronger, newer better version is what i want to know since it was out 12 years ago.

What i know from the rx500h is that... there is definetly a transmission issue going on .. it fails.. just reading on in the club lexus forum over  in the usa however im not sure if its the made in japan version or not..

I am definetly holding out till i see how these cars perfom in the long run .. 

[Spock66]

I think impossible to know, but probably a good reason to ensure there is always warranty cover in place.