Car tracking left

[Paul29]

Hi all

Good to be part of this knowledgeable community. 

Hoping to get some advice please. 

I have a 2014 IS300h….extremely well maintained….lexus service on time every year since new, and only 73k miles. 

Based on looking at other forums it seems I’m not the only one having this issue, but my IS tracking very noticeably to the left. 

In the last couple of months I have had the following done:

• Continually monitoring tyre pressure for leaks, and experimenting with 33, 36 and 39 psi. 
• front wheels switched to back and vice versa 
• Front left brake caliper replaced 
• Rear brakes stripped down and cleaned , with pins greased 
• 2 wheel alignments from different places
• NCT pass (National car test….ireland equivalent to DOE which includes fairly rigorous suspension check…I have had previous cars fail this test on bushing wear and issues I had no idea existed)
• Suspension examined by independent garage who said no excessive wear anywhere they could see. 

Yet still the car noticeably tracks to the left. I need to keep the steering engaged at 30 seconds past 12 to keep the car straight. Once I centre the steering wheel to neutral I am heading towards the kerb/ditch.  it is exhausting on long drives  

I am talking to the Toyota dealer where I bought the car as it is still under warranty but they seem to be out of ideas at the moment. They are currently considering next steps. 

Can anyone help please ?

Thank you 

[IS300FSPORT]

Belt in one of tyres gone bad. I had this very issue many years ago replacement set of tyres fixed it.

[Paul29]

Thanks….how can I find out which tyre? Replace 4 tyres for one potential bad one ?

[wharfhouse]

8 minutes ago, Paul29 said:

 

Hi all

Good to be part of this knowledgeable community. 

Hoping to get some advice please. 

I have a 2014 IS300h….extremely well maintained….lexus service on time every year since new, and only 73k miles. 

Based on looking at other forums it seems I’m not the only one having this issue, but my IS tracking very noticeably to the left. 

In the last couple of months I have had the following done:

• Continually monitoring tyre pressure for leaks, and experimenting with 33, 36 and 39 psi. 
• front wheels switched to back and vice versa 
• Front left brake caliper replaced 
• Rear brakes stripped down and cleaned , with pins greased 
• 2 wheel alignments from different places
• NCT pass (National car test….ireland equivalent to DOE which includes fairly rigorous suspension check…I have had previous cars fail this test on bushing wear and issues I had no idea existed)
• Suspension examined by independent garage who said no excessive wear anywhere they could see. 

Yet still the car noticeably tracks to the left. I need to keep the steering engaged at 30 seconds past 12 to keep the car straight. Once I centre the steering wheel to neutral I am heading towards the kerb/ditch.  it is exhausting on long drives  

I am talking to the Toyota dealer where I bought the car as it is still under warranty but they seem to be out of ideas at the moment. They are currently considering next steps. 

Can anyone help please ?

Thank you 

Having had a number of bad experiences with tyre places doing alignment and sometimes making things worse rather then better, my advice is make sure you use an alignment centre that comes highly recommended, knows what they are doing, and uses the latest equipment (probably Hunter equipment). The IS 300h can also have full 4 wheel alignment done (though I think the rears are limited in their adjustment) and so make sure that a full 4 wheel alignment is carried and not just an adjustment of the front wheels. Tyres can also cause some issues too, especially of they are worn and not changed following an alignment. Are the tyres good quality, same make all around (or at least same axle) with similar tread depth on same axle, and evenly worn (though will probably have some additional inner edge wear front and rear as that is usual with the standard IS 300h setup). If they are not, then it could be mismatched tyres causing the problem. Tyre pressures can make a difference but sounds like you have been checking those (use a good quality tyre pressure gauge, not the one at a local garage) - I find just over 36 psi all round works best. One last point is are you checking on open flat road with no left camber? It's worth driving down the centre of an A road on the crown to double check it's not to do with road camber? Finally, has the car had any repaired crash damage - as it could be something more serious if it's been in a heavy crash?

[wharfhouse]

33 minutes ago, Paul29 said:

Front left brake caliper replaced 

Depending on how long the caliper had been sticking for, due to compensating for this in the steering the tyre could have been worn unevenly which is now leading to the problem you are experiencing? It sounds like you have recently purchased the car and so have you had the issue from when you got the car or has it come on in your ownership?

[IS300FSPORT]

36 minutes ago, Paul29 said:

Thanks….how can I find out which tyre? Replace 4 tyres for one potential bad one ?

Yes unless you have a spare to swap out with

[Paul29]

48 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Having had a number of bad experiences with tyre places doing alignment and sometimes making things worse rather then better, my advice is make sure you use an alignment centre that comes highly recommended, knows what they are doing, and uses the latest equipment (probably Hunter equipment). The IS 300h can also have full 4 wheel alignment done (though I think the rears are limited in their adjustment) and so make sure that a full 4 wheel alignment is carried and not just an adjustment of the front wheels. Tyres can also cause some issues too, especially of they are worn and not changed following an alignment. Are the tyres good quality, same make all around (or at least same axle) with similar tread depth on same axle, and evenly worn (though will probably have some additional inner edge wear front and rear as that is usual with the standard IS 300h setup). If they are not, then it could be mismatched tyres causing the problem. Tyre pressures can make a difference but sounds like you have been checking those (use a good quality tyre pressure gauge, not the one at a local garage) - I find just over 36 psi all round works best. One last point is are you checking on open flat road with no left camber? It's worth driving down the centre of an A road on the crown to double check it's not to do with road camber? Finally, has the car had any repaired crash damage - as it could be something more serious if it's been in a heavy crash?

Thanks very much for your detailed response. I have only had the car since April. I noticed it shortly after buying it but it has become very annoying…perhaps as I am hyper focussed on it now or perhaps from a past alignment…I’m not sure. 
 

The tyres are all identical Goodyears all around. There is no noticeable uneven wear on any that I can see. They were quite new the tyres when I bought the car and I have done around 3.500 miles.  The old tyres may have painted a clearer picture. 
 

I have been as diligent as possible about ensuring I am on a dead straight road when assessing it. I don’t even need to be going fast. If I straighten the steering wheel even at 20mph I am heading for the kerb within seconds.  This is absolutely not road camber related. I drive a family members VW golf regularly and it is straight as an arrow in comparison. 
 

Maybe I need to bring it to lexus for alignment but it feels like I am throwing good money after bad and getting nowhere. 
 

I bought the car from a UK Toyota dealer and they gave a 12 month warranty on it so I doubt they would have sold a badly damaged car with warped frame but ultimately I don’t know the history in terms of any past collision. The bodywork and paint is immaculate everywhere. 
 

Maybe I need to try putting 4 new wheels and tyres on it next and seeing how it drives. Such a pain. 

[wharfhouse]

14 minutes ago, Paul29 said:

Thanks very much for your detailed response. I have only had the car since April. I noticed it shortly after buying it but it has become very annoying…perhaps as I am hyper focussed on it now or perhaps from a past alignment…I’m not sure. 
 

The tyres are all identical Goodyears all around. There is no noticeable uneven wear on any that I can see. They were quite new the tyres when I bought the car and I have done around 3.500 miles.  The old tyres may have painted a clearer picture. 
 

I have been as diligent as possible about ensuring I am on a dead straight road when assessing it. I don’t even need to be going fast. If I straighten the steering wheel even at 20mph I am heading for the kerb within seconds.  This is absolutely not road camber related. I drive a family members VW golf regularly and it is straight as an arrow in comparison. 
 

Maybe I need to bring it to lexus for alignment but it feels like I am throwing good money after bad and getting nowhere. 
 

I bought the car from a UK Toyota dealer and they gave a 12 month warranty on it so I doubt they would have sold a badly damaged car with warped frame but ultimately I don’t know the history in terms of any past collision. The bodywork and paint is immaculate everywhere. 
 

Maybe I need to try putting 4 new wheels and tyres on it next and seeing how it drives. Such a pain. 

Yes I share with you how frustrating these sort of issues are - some people don't seem bothered by them but I find them deeply irritating! On a previous car I once had (a Honda Accord) with a similar problem to yours I took it to two tyre places to have it checked / adjusted and it didn't fix it. In the end I took it to a tyre and wheel specialist that came highly recommended and left it with them for the morning (had to make an appointment as they were very busy). They fixed the issue - they told me that there was a difficult seized nut they had to release to adjust it correctly and the other places had just taken a short cut and not done that. The cost of alignment was quite a bit more than the other places, but in the end it was money well spent and I wish I'd done it there in the first place and saved money and a lot of time and frustration.

I assume you have checked for any calipers binding? You said that one had been replaced. If you haven't done so already, it's worth checking the temperature of all the wheels after a reasonable run and make sure none are hotter than any of the others.

Given everything you have said though it's certainly worth trying to have another go at a full alignment but you would need to find a specialist place that can do it right. Whether Lexus in Dublin can help I don't know - my Lexus dealer does alignment in-house, but some dealers don't have in-house equipment and will put it out - though if they use one place then that could be a good one to try - that's how I found the one that finally fixed my Honda as I learnt that it was used by BMW and Mercedes dealers.

Old tyres that have worn with a mis-alignment for a decent amount of miles can still cause a problem following an alignment due to their previous wear patterns and so it's generally recommended to replace the tyres and then do the alignment. By the description you have given of the rest of the car it does seem to point to tyres or alignment. It's a bitter pill to swallow but if the car is all in the good shape you have described then the only way to fix it may be new tyres all round and then a full 4 wheel alignment at somewhere you know you can trust. You won't need new wheels as any wheel damage wouldn't cause a pull to one side, you would get a wheel imbalance / vibration that can't be fixed with weights or a steering wheel shimmy around 65 mph (especially if buckled).

 

 

[Paul29]

12 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Yes I share with you how frustrating these sort of issues are - some people don't seem bothered by them but I find them deeply irritating! On a previous car I once had (a Honda Accord) with a similar problem to yours I took it to two tyre places to have it checked / adjusted and it didn't fix it. In the end I took it to a tyre and wheel specialist that came highly recommended and left it with them for the morning (had to make an appointment as they were very busy). They fixed the issue - they told me that there was a difficult seized nut they had to release to adjust it correctly and the other places had just taken a short cut and not done that. The cost of alignment was quite a bit more than the other places, but in the end it was money well spent and I wish I'd done it there in the first place and saved money and a lot of time and frustration.

I assume you have checked for any calipers binding? You said that one had been replaced. If you haven't done so already, it's worth checking the temperature of all the wheels after a reasonable run and make sure none are hotter than any of the others.

Given everything you have said though it's certainly worth trying to have another go at a full alignment but you would need to find a specialist place that can do it right. Whether Lexus in Dublin can help I don't know - my Lexus dealer does alignment in-house, but some dealers don't have in-house equipment and will put it out - though if they use one place then that could be a good one to try - that's how I found the one that finally fixed my Honda as I learnt that it was used by BMW and Mercedes dealers.

Old tyres that have worn with a mis-alignment for a decent amount of miles can still cause a problem following an alignment due to their previous wear patterns and so it's generally recommended to replace the tyres and then do the alignment. By the description you have given of the rest of the car it does seem to point to tyres or alignment. It's a bitter pill to swallow but if the car is all in the good shape you have described then the only way to fix it may be new tyres all round and then a full 4 wheel alignment at somewhere you know you can trust. You won't need new wheels as any wheel damage wouldn't cause a pull to one side, you would get a wheel imbalance / vibration that can't be fixed with weights or a steering wheel shimmy around 65 mph (especially if buckled).

 

 

Thanks again. 
Everywhere I have brought it has suggested something different. It’s like none of the so called experts really know very much at all. 
Maybe I could ask a place if they would put 4 new tyres on it and if that fixes the issue I’ll buy them and if not ill pay them for their time and return the tyres. 
at this stage I’m not prepared to drop another 600 unless I know it’s going to resolve the issue. Tyres do seem the most obvious. These ones on it are stamped 2022 and still have heaps of thread but maybe one or more of them was badly stored and got warped. 

[wharfhouse]

5 minutes ago, Paul29 said:

Thanks again. 
Everywhere I have brought it has suggested something different. It’s like none of the so called experts really know very much at all. 
Maybe I could ask a place if they would put 4 new tyres on it and if that fixes the issue I’ll buy them and if not ill pay them for their time and return the tyres. 
at this stage I’m not prepared to drop another 600 unless I know it’s going to resolve the issue. Tyres do seem the most obvious. These ones on it are stamped 2022 and still have heaps of thread but maybe one or more of them was badly stored and got warped. 

Yes difficult one to know what to do next. Have you actually seen the print out from the 4 wheel alignment machine to be sure that it's all showing green? The pull you describe at such low speeds still points to alignment even more than tyres IMHO which I would have thought would show at higher rotational speeds. 

[LenT]

2 hours ago, Paul29 said:

Yet still the car noticeably tracks to the left. I need to keep the steering engaged at 30 seconds past 12 to keep the car straight. Once I centre the steering wheel to neutral I am heading towards the kerb/ditch. 

Just a thought, Paul.

Considering the age and mileage, it’s possible that not everything in the car’s past has been faithfully recorded.  Is it possible that the steering wheel has been off at some point and simply not correctly replaced?

Or is that too simplistic an answer?

[Paul29]

41 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Yes difficult one to know what to do next. Have you actually seen the print out from the 4 wheel alignment machine to be sure that it's all showing green? The pull you describe at such low speeds still points to alignment even more than tyres IMHO which I would have thought would show at higher rotational speeds. 

Yes I’ve been given the print outs and shown the screen in person - all green. 

[Paul29]

42 minutes ago, LenT said:

Just a thought, Paul.

Considering the age and mileage, it’s possible that not everything in the car’s past has been faithfully recorded.  Is it possible that the steering wheel has been off at some point and simply not correctly replaced?

Or is that too simplistic an answer?

Quite possibly. How is one to know. 
Even so….the question remains what to do next without flushing cash down the toilet!

[wharfhouse]

4 minutes ago, Paul29 said:

Yes I’ve been given the print outs and shown the screen in person - all green. 

To try and rule out tyres you could try a switch from left to right (as you've already done front to back)? If it's tyres it might show up with a different behaviour after changing sides?

[Paul29]

18 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

To try and rule out tyres you could try a switch from left to right (as you've already done front to back)? If it's tyres it might show up with a different behaviour after changing sides?

Yeah i actually thought that and suggested it to the guy in the alignment place and he was like “front to back would have resolved it if tyres were the issue, don’t bother side to side” 🙈

would you do front left and right first as opposed to rear left and right ?

[wharfhouse]

9 minutes ago, Paul29 said:

Yeah i actually thought that and suggested it to the guy in the alignment place and he was like “front to back would have resolved it if tyres were the issue, don’t bother side to side” 🙈

would you do front left and right first as opposed to rear left and right ?

Not sure which would have the biggest impact as I've seen issues with front and rear in the past. I think it's a matter of being methodical. Personally I'd go with swapping fronts left to right first and see if that makes a difference and if not then the same with the rears and see if you notice anything different.

[googsy]

I'm in Ireland too , like you with many cars I have issues with getting alignment done right. My money is still  on your alignment . The only place I bring my cars to for alignment is United Tyres on the Long mile Road . I have travelled the country for years seeking hunter machines and not one has ever done it properly. My last car an S Class drove like a tea trolley I brought it to numerous places and whilst they made a minor improvement the car never drove the way it should and steering was always off centre. Finally I brought it to United Tyres and after 20 minutes the car was completely transformed.  I just brought my wife's 2016 Is300h there after getting 4 new tyres for an alignment and car drives perfectly . Worth a shot in my opinion. They have an alignment machine that's apparently more accurate than the Hunter Machine and more importantly know how to use it. . Hope that helps. BTW if you ask Lexus to do it they will likely use a 3rd party tyre company to do it. 

[scythe]

I've had alignment problems in my previous LS.  When it comes to it, you need people who you can trust. Many alignment places just don't really know what they are doing, and this includes Lexus dealers who've been sold Hunter machines in the hope of making some easy money.

There are two things that come to mind. First, has the steering wheel been properly centred before adjustments are made?  Just because the car has driven onto the thingie doesn't mean that it's in the correct position.  The car needs to be driven onto the stand, straightened, then rolled off the rotating platform at the front and rolled back on. Then the angles can be checked and adjusted.  And you need to stress the need for the steering wheel to be centred at this point.

Then get the back wheels done too.  If they're out, then the car will try to steer one way or another when you put in power.

But ultimately, you do need someone who knows what they're doing.  Find a specialist if you need to, or just someone who knows what he's doing, and actually cares.

If I were you, I'd go with  @googsy 's suggestion!

: o )

 

[Paul29]

8 hours ago, googsy said:

I'm in Ireland too , like you with many cars I have issues with getting alignment done right. My money is still  on your alignment . The only place I bring my cars to for alignment is United Tyres on the Long mile Road . I have travelled the country for years seeking hunter machines and not one has ever done it properly. My last car an S Class drove like a tea trolley I brought it to numerous places and whilst they made a minor improvement the car never drove the way it should and steering was always off centre. Finally I brought it to United Tyres and after 20 minutes the car was completely transformed.  I just brought my wife's 2016 Is300h there after getting 4 new tyres for an alignment and car drives perfectly . Worth a shot in my opinion. They have an alignment machine that's apparently more accurate than the Hunter Machine and more importantly know how to use it. . Hope that helps. BTW if you ask Lexus to do it they will likely use a 3rd party tyre company to do it. 

That’s great. Thanks very much. Great to have a recommendation of somewhere who seems to know what they’re doing. That place isn’t too far from me at all. Good question on the steering wheel….i don’t know if it’s the alignment or the steering wheel but when I centre the wheel I am headed dramatically to the left. 

[Paul29]

7 hours ago, scythe said:

I've had alignment problems in my previous LS.  When it comes to it, you need people who you can trust. Many alignment places just don't really know what they are doing, and this includes Lexus dealers who've been sold Hunter machines in the hope of making some easy money.

There are two things that come to mind. First, has the steering wheel been properly centred before adjustments are made?  Just because the car has driven onto the thingie doesn't mean that it's in the correct position.  The car needs to be driven onto the stand, straightened, then rolled off the rotating platform at the front and rolled back on. Then the angles can be checked and adjusted.  And you need to stress the need for the steering wheel to be centred at this point.

Then get the back wheels done too.  If they're out, then the car will try to steer one way or another when you put in power.

But ultimately, you do need someone who knows what they're doing.  Find a specialist if you need to, or just someone who knows what he's doing, and actually cares.

If I were you, I'd go with  @googsy 's suggestion!

: o )

 

Thanks mate. Sounds like solid advice. I still wonder will I be throwing good money after bad but I didn’t realise how incompetent some of these alignment places must be. 

[wharfhouse]

35 minutes ago, Paul29 said:

Thanks mate. Sounds like solid advice. I still wonder will I be throwing good money after bad but I didn’t realise how incompetent some of these alignment places must be. 

Yes, in my experience, many of them are totally incompetent. You could try swapping the wheels left to right to see if that makes a difference, but if not I would follow up on the recommendation of @googsy as he (like I have) seems to have experienced the good and the bad and found one that can do it right near to you.

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

I Have a Hunch Its NOT the Tyres...Take it Back to the Dealership With This in Mind and get them to do a full Check On Suspension Rubber bushes and Steering...it Could just be a Possible Solution to your Problem....IMHO

[googsy]

9 hours ago, Paul29 said:

Thanks mate. Sounds like solid advice. I still wonder will I be throwing good money after bad but I didn’t realise how incompetent some of these alignment places must be. 

Believe me they are ...

[googsy]

I'm like an expectant father now waiting for Paul to report back. Hopefully sorted 👍 

[Paul29]

1 hour ago, googsy said:

I'm like an expectant father now waiting for Paul to report back. Hopefully sorted 👍 

 😂😂 I went to a music festival for the weekend and put it out of my head. Back on the case next week. Updates will follow !