12 volt battery

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, iainmangle said:

I certainly don't recall being quizzed by the Lexus salesman on my driving habits when discussing the merits of an LBX.

Therein lies the whole point.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Lexus. They should be much more open and honest in their advertising and they should fully explain this design 'feature' and how it may affect the owner of the car.

What I am saying is that the presence of a 'Hybrid' badge denotes that the car is different to a conventional one and that owners can't just completely wash their hands of all responsibility. They need to find out just how it's different and how it will fit in with their own circumstances and/or driving habits, and luckily we live in a time when doing research has never been easier. The Internet is awash with information and a bit of time spent with Mr. Google would reveal all.

What gets me most is how indifferent and seemingly uninterested people appear to be in this respect, e.g. "Nobody told me..." or "It's not my job to look for information..."

When I buy a car my wife says that I'm an absolute nightmare to live with for 2-3 weeks because I'm as excited as a 2 year-old rather than my actual 67 years. I surround myself with magazines, brochures, and anything to do with my prospective purchase. Or at least I did; now I just spend hours and hours on Google but you get the gist. I make it my mission to find out as much as possible, both the good and the bad.

[MFK]

On 8/18/2024 at 6:25 PM, Shufman said:

Don’t know Herbs, sorry. I’ll try to find out 😊

The LBX Battery is a 35Ah Battery.  

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, MFK said:

The LBX battery is a 35Ah battery.  

Cheers Martin, that really IS tiny.

[ColinBarber]

11 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Cheers Martin, that really IS tiny.

Yeah, the CT200h in the UK got a 45 Ah one because of the alarm where some other countries only got 35 Ah. Seems Lexus forgot that alarm, smart entry and always Internet connected vehicles consume more power when turned off than cars did 30 years ago!

[MFK]

16 minutes ago, Herbie said:

Cheers Martin, that really IS tiny.

Yes, I am now well versed at getting into my LBX when the 12V Battery fails, which it has on 2 occasions, requiring AA call-out.  The car is 4 months old.  ‘Nuff said.

[iainmangle]

19 hours ago, Herbie said:

Therein lies the whole point.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Lexus. They should be much more open and honest in their advertising and they should fully explain this design 'feature' and how it may affect the owner of the car.

What I am saying is that the presence of a 'Hybrid' badge denotes that the car is different to a conventional one and that owners can't just completely wash their hands of all responsibility. They need to find out just how it's different and how it will fit in with their own circumstances and/or driving habits, and luckily we live in a time when doing research has never been easier. The Internet is awash with information and a bit of time spent with Mr. Google would reveal all.

What gets me most is how indifferent and seemingly uninterested people appear to be in this respect, e.g. "Nobody told me..." or "It's not my job to look for information..."

When I buy a car my wife says that I'm an absolute nightmare to live with for 2-3 weeks because I'm as excited as a 2 year-old rather than my actual 67 years. I surround myself with magazines, brochures, and anything to do with my prospective purchase. Or at least I did; now I just spend hours and hours on Google but you get the gist. I make it my mission to find out as much as possible, both the good and the bad.

 

[iainmangle]

This is not my first hybrid, nor my first EV. I am fully cognisant that a hybrid is different from both. My previous hybrid, driven for a year, never presented a 12v problem,  and nor did our full EV, so I would suggest this is an exceptionally poor example of design/specification, or alternatively I have a duff 12v Battery. The AA tech condemned it yesterday but quite rightly advised me that Lexus will not take his expert word for it - I need to leave it at a dealership for a whole day for them to satisfy themselves it is duff, or mire likely not. As for not taking responsibility, what else might one be expected to do apart from drive it and to read what little advice there is in either the painfully  inadequate manual provided or the cumbersome online version. I think 50 years of driving a lot of different vehicles ought to provide me with sufficient nous to cope with a 2024 vehicle, maybe with the exception of a £40k car with an inadequate 12v Battery. 

[Heuer]

The LBX 12v Battery is 35Ah, half of what a non-hybrid is normally equipped with. The 70Ah Battery has to start the car which is not required by the LBX. Something is clearly draining the LBX 12v, maybe worth putting an ammeter in circuit to see what is going on?

[Herbie]

56 minutes ago, Heuer said:

The LBX 12v battery is 35Ah, half of what a non-hybrid is normally equipped with. The 70Ah battery has to start the car which is not required by the LBX. Something is clearly draining the LBX 12v, maybe worth putting an ammeter in circuit to see what is going on?

The quiescent current draw (this is to keep things like the radio presets, the seat memory, the clock and suchlike, alive when the car is not in use) is somewhere around 50 to 70 milliamps (mA) or 0.05 to 0.07A, perhaps even more. Someone said that the LBX has a Battery rated at 35Ah, which means that it can supply 35A for one hour, or 17.5A for two hours, or 8.75A for four hours and so on.

If we assume a brand new and fully charged Battery, we can say 35Ah divided by 0.07A = 500 hours to go from fully charged to fully discharged. That's just 20.83 days or 3 weeks. And don't forget that the Battery will not be able to start the car long before it becomes fully discharged, so that reduces the useable time again.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, iainmangle said:

As for not taking responsibility, what else might one be expected to do apart from drive it and to read what little advice there is in either the painfully  inadequate manual provided or the cumbersome online version.

Hmm...maybe put the phrase "common issues with lexus hybrids" (without the quotes) into Google and see what pops up?

This is on the first page of results https://mag.lexus.co.uk/lexus-hybrid-parked/

[Heuer]

The LBX manual says the 12v Battery is good for just over three weeks when the car is left left unused (they give an example of an airport stay), which ties in with your calculations. Any more than that and you will need a power pack or assistance.

[iainmangle]

On 8/17/2024 at 10:14 AM, Dells said:

This is what I have

 

[iainmangle]

I went off to amazon (not The Amazon) and bought one of these, knowing it is only a matter of time before I get stranded again. What I can't get my head around though is that the terminal clips won't stretch from the positive terminal under the bonnet to the earth strap; clearly they are designed for standard batteries and not hybrid. Do you therefore burrow under the back seat to get to the Battery itself? And if so, that must be fun as the blade key opens only the driver's door so I don't see how the Battery is even reachable with a flat 12v??

[ColinBarber]

There should be another earthed piece of metal you can use - any bolt going into the bodywork.

[iainmangle]

Thank you. I had lain in bed last night wondering about whether that might be possible and probably just needed a grown up to say it would be OK 🙂 . Cheers.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, iainmangle said:

the terminal clips won't stretch from the positive terminal under the bonnet to the earth strap

As Colin says, you don't need to connect to the earth strap. The negative Battery post is connected directly to the body of the car, so any* nut, screw, bolt or bracket that is clean and unpainted (very important) and has a good connection to the body will do the job.

* Just beware that some screws will be terminated in moulded plastic brackets/fitments that may not be immediately obvious, so they're no good for this purpose; neither are shock absorber top bolts, in general.

[kevinc23]

I checked my jump starter and the leads are very short. There looks like a good painted metal part in front of the fuse box and a few possible bolts. A photo would be appreciated if someone has successfully used a point for the negative lead.

[Herbie]

1 hour ago, kevinc23 said:

I checked my jump starter and the leads are very short. There looks like a good painted metal part in front of the fuse box and a few possible bolts. A photo would be appreciated if someone has successfully used a point for the negative lead.

I haven't got an LBX and it's difficult to properly tell from a photo (much easier stood looking into the engine bay) so don't shoot the messenger if I get it wrong, but I think most of the arrowed places should be suitable. Basically, any clean and, most importantly, unpainted screw, nut, bolt or bracket should do the job.

Just be aware that some screws may terminate in a moulded plastic bracket, and these are unsuitable for obvious reasons, as are (usually) the shock absorber top bolts.

If you want to try it before you need it in anger, simply get a 12V lamp and either solder two wires directly to the lamp or use a proper lamp holder. Connect one wire to the red +ve jump point in the fuse box and go around touching various points to see if the lamp lights up or not. Alternatively use a multimeter, which is far more versatile and once you have it, it'll come in handy for a myriad of jobs around the house/garden/car. You can get some really good ones for under £20, even under a tenner, here.

[Lexusjim]

Multimeter x two

[kevinc23]

The multimeter is a great idea. The nut below the fuse box is ideal for the negative lead. A couple of metal parts I checked, which I would have tried using got no reading at all.

[iainmangle]

Cheers,  thank you

[iainmangle]

Update 24th October 2024. I mistakenly thought I would be able to make a trip to the supermarket today but my new pet hate, otherwise known as LBX, decided otherwise. Luckily I had bought a jumpstarter kit last week and started it up after a couple of tries. Despite the AA tech advising it only needed to run for 15 minutes to get the 12v charged good old LBX refused to open/start for the return journey, and out came trusty jumpstarter in the middle of the car park. £37 on the jumpstarter now seems an absolute bargain compared with £40k for an LBX. Dispappointed? Oh Yes! 

[GMB]

This all sounds a bit iffy. I suppose the old joke will come back about heated rear windows to keep your hands warm when pushing the car in winter?

[iainmangle]

I very much doubt this particular LBX will even open in winter, in order to turn on the heated rear window 🙂 Woke up this morning, after jumping and running it twice yesterday, to my alarm going off (only just audible so not too impressive)). Tried to turn off with the remote but of course no response. Tried to get in the car and yet again could not! I now leave the tacky piece of trim from the door handle in the car as I always need to use the blade key to open the door. On trickle charge for the second time in a week, so that is 2 x AA call-outs; 2 x self jumpstarts; and 2 x trickle charge, all in the space of six weeks or so on a six months old £40k car. Not what I would have expected, but then neither is the disinterest of the dealer who couldn't look at the Battery (big job obviously) for four weeks, two still to go. Buy a Lexus at your peril - first and last for me. 

[Heuer]

Have you changed the remote Battery CR2032. I have a feeling that when it is low the car polls it but does not get a proper response back from the key so keeps trying. Worth a try ?