And I thought Waffles Are Something You Eat

[SH20]

Service and MOT today at the local dealership.    Previously mentioned an annoying vibration coming from the osr window blind on my LS500h,  37,000 miles and 6.5 years old.   Unless I am driving on ultra smooth tarmac the vibration is evident.  Put the blind up and it helps a little because the mechanism is engaged. 

Door card removed and an arranged discussion with the Technician standing by the open door confirmed in his presence that something internal in the mechanism was either loose or broken. He readily accepted that he could hear the rattle/noise but further investigation was needed while in the shop.    The waffle started when the After Sales Service Manager rang to say although the shop's master technician also heard the vibration while he sat in the back and another technician drove the car he decided to put forward a theory that it was likely to be worn bearings in the mechanism or an internal component that was not running correctly  !!!!   I refrained from stating the obvious that he doesn't have X Ray vision does He so doesn't know what has failed.  This vibration is something    I experience on every road service and it never stops.  The master technician said it occurred on really  poor road services only,  more waffle. 

This of course was to forewarn the Lexus Warranty Underwriters who were contacted today about a warranty claim which was declined out of hand.     I've had 4 Lexus cars with electric window blinds and never once had an issue with vibrations emanating from the rather complex and very expensive looking motorised mechanism.     I will be contacting the Warranty Dept later to challenge this decision as there is definitely something broken or detached inside this part.  The part is an electric powered mechanically driven component  and if mileage and age were the governing factors then both blinds should be suffering from worn this or broken that.    Dealers just hate it when customers tell them what the issue is and it's like they believe they need to put this customer in his place.    

You all know what Up Selling is when a car is in for service etc and the dealer rings to try and sell other services  but what chance does any customer have when the MOT  proves to be a golden opportunity to  tell a customer that there was an imbalance  in the front brakes while on the rolling road, sufficient enough to say it needs new front discs and of course new pads.   The front pads on my car were at at least 75% thick   but of course I have no way to question the readings the rolling road gave out.     What I know is the brakes worked normally and the car stops on a sixpence.   But of course it's the MOT  so you have no chance to challenge a Government backed MOT operator so you either accept their word and obtain a new MOT  and hand over £950  for the privilege.     LC500 and LS500 have identical 6 pot front brakes, they are huge.        

 

 

[Malc1]

A terrible experience for you with your Lexus Main Dealer servicing and MOT people 

Malc 

[ambermarine]

The issue with service departments is the motivation behind thier existence, "Make Money ".

As you correctly stated the mantra is " We are right you are wrong".

I do all my own servicing by the book and choose very carefully who does the big jobs ,Timing belt etc,  I source genuine Lexus parts from  overseas suppliers.

The issue with warranties pursea ,conflict of interest,although Lexus through a third party obtains your warranty on your behalf they then change sides when claims are made.

I have said this before the more complex a car gets the more issues are created and we end up in battles we did not wish for or create and to avoid this scenario it as been my intention to keep things simple by not upgrading to the next model when the one I have is perfect.

[SH20]

Agree Phil,  all Franchised dealer warranties are underwritten by external third party insurers and the underwriters change as the wind blows.  Lexus do not pay for any extended warranty claims i.e outside the 3 year manufacturer warranty but from year 4 on they go to whoever is flavour of the month and agree terms as to how that underwriter will handle claims with Lexus having a great deal to say on the wording of which parts will be covered.

It is fair to say the principle components have specific parts listed,  engine pistons, cylinder heads, auto transmission parts etc etc and the list is extensive but so is the parts not covered.  They are also clever at exclusions such as vibration, noise etc which are exempt from any part not listed and not limited to so they have most corners covered.  My annoying vibration in the window blind would be a great example. 

brake discs are covered under  the heading "Brakes" along with calipers and brake drums etc etc but they avoid the cost of new brake discs by having the exclusion " due to  wear and tear".  My brake imbalance would come under wear and tear.  So a brake disc would have to be cracked or have failed in some other way to claim for it.   Sounds great the Toutota and Lexus 10 year warranty and you want to hear new car salesmen go on and on about it like it was a magic bullet.    What a load of Malarchy

 

 

 

[ambermarine]

4 hours ago, SH20 said:

Agree Phil,  all Franchised dealer warranties are underwritten by external third party insurers and the underwriters change as the wind blows.  Lexus do not pay for any extended warranty claims i.e outside the 3 year manufacturer warranty but from year 4 on they go to whoever is flavour of the month and agree terms as to how that underwriter will handle claims with Lexus having a great deal to say on the wording of which parts will be covered.

It is fair to say the principle components have specific parts listed,  engine pistons, cylinder heads, auto transmission parts etc etc and the list is extensive but so is the parts not covered.  They are also clever at exclusions such as vibration, noise etc which are exempt from any part not listed and not limited to so they have most corners covered.  My annoying vibration in the window blind would be a great example. 

Brake discs are covered under  the heading "Brakes" along with calipers and brake drums etc etc but they avoid the cost of new brake discs by having the exclusion " due to  wear and tear".  My brake imbalance would come under wear and tear.  So a brake disc would have to be cracked or have failed in some other way to claim for it.   Sounds great the Toutota and Lexus 10 year warranty and you want to hear new car salesmen go on and on about it like it was a magic bullet.    What a load of Malarchy

 

 

 

I have said this before also, Those busy looking people walking about on those marble floors in the showrooms with free coffee have to be paid for "Step up muggins" not me sir I'll stick to the independants and wait for a phone call.

[cdmaskell]

As a senior retired MOD technician and inspector.  A roller brake test can be easily “confused” by how the tester applies the brakes . Gradual or hard application.  Had they been warm?  A RBT does not respond well to cold brakes.  A fellow operative could get a fail.  I would retest with a pass. A quick run around with light brake pressure would normally do the trick.

 

 

 

[cdmaskell]

Also I have encountered many faulty readings on RBT’s. And having to call out the manufactures.

[SH20]

Thanks Colin, useful to know.     I have now realised that I let the dealer in to the opportunity to upsell me new discs and pads.  Two months ago I booked the car in for this service and MOT and about 2 weeks ago they sent the book in online link which I filled in which included a box to tell them about anything else I wanted them to consider.    I reviewed this link today and realised I had mentioned I had a bit of brake judder at speed when going down hill.

I now believe they have used that to fail the MOT on brake efficiencies between the left and right front brakes.  There were no lips on the discs edges, which should not make a difference to brake performance anyway even if a disc is worn.   Because I mentioned brakes I now feel I shot myself in the foot by planting that seed of doubt in their minds.  So £804 plus VAT was the result.  

I'm considering sending an e mail to the Lexus Stoke dealership Principle  to let them know that after buying their £42K car 9 months ago and having done only 4,419 miles the car couldn't pass an MOT.    They won't be bothered of course, all water under the bridge for them. 

 

[Malc1]

Wot a dreadful experience for you …….. I’d have gone mad at the Dealer over that !

Malc 

[cdmaskell]

Love that word “malarkey”.  Steve. Which this disc and pad replacement certainly is!   The dealers love replacing them.  An ex colleague of mine works still in a Toyota/Lexus dealership in the USA. They regularly skim the discs,  if in tolerance and use the existing pads. The machinery is readily available.  The disc does not have to be removed either.  I saw a demo at trade do, some years ago.  I felt it would be a great tool to refurbish discs on trailer brakes, that had been idle for sometime.  Working for the MOD it wasn’t purchased.  It would have saved thousands.

 

[BigBoomer]

I NEVER get an MOT at a dealers or mechanics shop. Find an MOT **only** centre near you and use them. They charge the full price for the MOT but you don't get any of that bullsh!t about how you need x-y-z urgently. It's a little bit more hassle but worth it to avoid the "upsell". In Belgium & Germany the testing is done in government centres so no bullsh!t there either.

[SH20]

I could feel the resentment the "Technician" had for me when I basically LED him by the hand  to the car, pointed to the window blind sub assembly (the Tube that the blind rolls up in)  lightly struck the tube with the palm of my hand which immediately caused a rattle which was  perfectly audible.   With great reluctance he had to confirm he heard it but he would have to look into further when the car was in the workshop.  

Pretty sure he was thinking "What the F**k am I having to listen to this old muppet for"  but as his manager had agreed I could have a few minutes with the "Technician" who was going to work on my car he had to stand there and listen to what I was experiencing on the road.      They just hate having an older person to talk to.    100 years ago I served my own apprenticeship as a mechanic.  Now they call themselves "Technicians"   who can't diagnose a problem unless the car is plugged in to a fault code reader which tells them where to look.   This was just an old fashioned physical problem of a rattle causing a vibration during driving and he was never really interested.    Anyway the dealer's lovely receptionist  rang me today to check if all was ok and she didn't deserve to listen to what I really thought.    I will wait till the dealer sends their customer survey  questionnaire to me, due any day now.    I'll let them have both barrels then.    Lexus UK used to be almost neurotic about customer satisfaction results and my favourite Lexus dealer in Carlisle once  told me that if a dealer didn't achieve an average of 9.8  out of 10 each month they would get a visit from Lexus UK to discuss why.  Doubt if that commitment exists today

[SH20]

No wonder Lexus Warranty turned down a claim for a LS500h rear door window blind because of vibration.   The part cost  is £2,338 incl vat plus fitting.  

[Malc1]

Joke prices coming thru’ ……. there’s posts here about a Lexus door mirror costing £2100 ……. wots going on these days 🥵

Malc 

[BigBoomer]

Made out of 105% pure Unobtanium by Japanese Virgin Masters of the Obscure Part, presumably?
The car industry definitely needs a reset on their parts pricing. 

I was hoping that the Chinese car industry might provide that reset, but it looks like they are being tariffed out of the market.
It all stinks to high heaven of protectionism and excessive profiteering to me.

[Malc1]

Us owners of comparative Old Bangers ……. me anyway ……. so so happy to be living in the “ Olde World Charm ” of sensible motoring costs and quality  cars 

Malc