Winter fuel payment

[LenT]

45 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Just today from Wes Streeting

"NHS care can be a “death sentence” for some patients, the Health Secretary has said as the Prime Minister called for better use of technology to make the NHS “fit for the next 75 years”. 

My head spins with incredulity, are they oblivious to the consequences of their actions? 😱

 

The irony of the NHS is that on the surgical and medical side, it can indeed be world leading and impressively innovative.  But in contrast, many of the civil servant managers can display mind boggling levels of incompetence, to a degree that makes them unemployable in the real world.

For example, I suggest that it was the various Unions resistance to updating working practices that meant the computer operating systems weren’t updated and as a result the NHS suffered a serious hacking.  

But sometimes it’s attitude, not technology, that can be life threatening.  Not long ago MrsT was critically ill and a hospital consultant specified a specific piece of equipment for her.  Unfortunately, there wasn’t one available on any of the wards of this major regional hospital.

Even more unfortunately, it was the weekend and the keeper of the stores had gone home - taking what was apparently the only key to the stores with him!  How can that be allowed to happen?  Thus were the urgent medical instructions of a senior consultant thwarted by an unqualified civil servant.

Would that occur in a well run Private Hospital?  I think not!

[The-Acre]

On 10/19/2024 at 2:51 PM, Phil xxkr said:

Mark my words Malc these chancers are gambling on there being a mild winter(look at the forecast), in which case they will have wriggled out of it like an eel in a jar of Brylcream. But if it's a harsh one then they can aways use "extenuating circumstances/out of the ordinary/etc etc to make a one off payment much like the furlough scheme. However what these strutting jackanapes forget is, a week maybe a long time in politics but it will stay forever in the memory of the off-spring of the people they have slighted. And maybe they, who will be in charge at the time, enact a law stating "Remember the Winter Fuel Allowance " should be in the obituaries of those who voted for the cut and consequences. 

"extenuating circumstances/out of the ordinary"

My guess would be "climate change" it's the government's (and the BBC's) go to excuse for everything.

[Phil xxkr]

11 hours ago, LenT said:

The irony of the NHS is that on the surgical and medical side, it can indeed be world leading and impressively innovative.  But in contrast, many of the civil servant managers can display mind boggling levels of incompetence, to a degree that makes them unemployable in the real world.

For example, I suggest that it was the various Unions resistance to updating working practices that meant the computer operating systems weren’t updated and as a result the NHS suffered a serious hacking.  

But sometimes it’s attitude, not technology, that can be life threatening.  Not long ago MrsT was critically ill and a hospital consultant specified a specific piece of equipment for her.  Unfortunately, there wasn’t one available on any of the wards of this major regional hospital.

Even more unfortunately, it was the weekend and the keeper of the stores had gone home - taking what was apparently the only key to the stores with him!  How can that be allowed to happen?  Thus were the urgent medical instructions of a senior consultant thwarted by an unqualified civil servant.

Would that occur in a well run Private Hospital?  I think not!

Firstly Len, I trust Mrs T is now out of choppy waters? Secondly, your summation is correct. Very expensive kit is being sited in private hospitals and run and used seven days both privately and by the NHS. The irony and hypocrisy being civil servants and train drivers have no problem with this 😕

[Phil xxkr]

11 hours ago, The-Acre said:

"extenuating circumstances/out of the ordinary"

My guess would be "climate change" it's the government's (and the BBC's) go to excuse for everything.

Too right Malc, I now see what the 22bn black hole has now risen to 40 😱

[Kevin Williams]

1 hour ago, Phil xxkr said:

Firstly Len, I trust Mrs T is now out of choppy waters? Secondly, your summation is correct. Very expensive kit is being sited in private hospitals and run and used seven days both privately and by the NHS. The irony and hypocrisy being civil servants and train drivers have no problem with this 😕

 

[Phil xxkr]

39 minutes ago, Kevin Williams said:

 

Those of a certain age will recall John Harvey-Jones and Gerry Robinson in the 70's/80's both considered experts in industrial reorganisation and large scale management.  They were invited to see what could be done with an out of date and inefficient NHS. Both tried and gave up. They walked away broadly saying it's too difficult laying it fairly and squarely on the people's unwillingness to change. 40+ years on can anyone spot the difference? But for a real lesson in how to change intractable situations read up on the President of El Salvador transforming it from the murder capital of a South American country to the safest and an 83% re election margin from the people. 

[GMB]

In the 70's, or was it the 80's? I remember that we installed and maintained and developed a patient/doctor/management database system for a major hospital. Our database designer and developer associate put in a fantastic robust Oracle based database that worked perfectly - believe it or not!. One day we were told that the hospital had to abandon their own superb system and go with the national newly developed database at a cost of many hundreds - YES - of thousands of pounds. It didn't work! Crashes, lost data, everything wrong. It was eventually dumped at great loss to the taxpayer and our old system was not allowed to be re-instated due to "policy".   That's one reason that I have no faith in the gov't/NHS way of doing things.  Sad isn't it?

BTW - at risk of confidentiality breach some of the doctors still ( naughtily ) ran our database on the QT in the background on a separate isolated/firewalled network which got them out of a black hole when the national system was FUBAR ed. And for all you techies it ( the client bit ) ran on apple and PC and Linux hardware and networks seamlessly!! That was quite  feat in those days.

Nowadays if I was asked to do this I would run a mile.🏃‍♂️

[LenT]

2 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Firstly Len, I trust Mrs T is now out of choppy waters?

Pretty much, thanks Phil.

Having survived the NHS, a period in a Care Home got her back to eating again.  One of the problems with the Hospital was that food would be placed in front of her by the catering staff - and then removed by the same person who hadn’t noticed that it hadn’t been touched!

I changed my daily visits to coincide with meals so that I could ensure that she got some assistance.  Nurses would say they were too busy, but it doesn’t take medical training to feed someone.  

[wharfhouse]

7 minutes ago, GMB said:

In the 70's, or was it the 80's? I remember that we installed and maintained and developed a patient/doctor/management database system for a major hospital. Our database designer and developer associate put in a fantastic robust Oracle based database that worked perfectly - believe it or not!. One day we were told that the hospital had to abandon their own superb system and go with the national newly developed database at a cost of many hundreds - YES - of thousands of pounds. It didn't work! Crashes, lost data, everything wrong. It was eventually dumped at great loss to the taxpayer and our old system was not allowed to be re-instated due to "policy".   That's one reason that I have no faith in the gov't/NHS way of doing things.  Sad isn't it?

BTW - at risk of confidentiality breach some of the doctors still ( naughtily ) ran our database on the QT in the background on a separate isolated/firewalled network which got them out of a black hole when the national system was FUBAR ed. And for all you techies it ( the client bit ) ran on Apple and PC and Linux hardware and networks seamlessly!! That was quite  feat in those days.

Nowadays if I was asked to do this I would run a mile.🏃‍♂️

I worked recently on helping to develop an IT system for one of the NHS Trusts. The biggest issue was that no-one in the NHS IT team had a clue about how to write a specification for what they wanted. So, we would be delivering functionality based on loose specs so they could see how something worked and then they would decide whether they liked that or wanted to change it. The problem then comes as times goes on that they kept changing their minds about earlier features as we rolled out new features which meant that to make those changes we had to go back and undo a load of stuff that we had been settled earlier. The costs of all of this just kept compounding until they ran out of money and still didn't have something fit for purpose. The NHS staff (at least from my experience) are wholly in capable of managing any IT project. We kept trying to explain the consequences of their approach but they just wouldn't listen (or understand). We had meetings and meetings of loads of people, most who I couldn't work out what they did day-to-day. Most (if not all) just seemed to be there to fill their time from 9-5 each day and then go home and forget about whatever it was they came to the meeting for...

[John Adams]

51 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Those of a certain age will recall John Harvey-Jones and Gerry Robinson in the 70's/80's both considered experts in industrial reorganisation and large scale management.  They were invited to see what could be done with an out of date and inefficient NHS. Both tried and gave up. They walked away broadly saying it's too difficult laying it fairly and squarely on the people's unwillingness to change. 40+ years on can anyone spot the difference? But for a real lesson in how to change intractable situations read up on the President of El Salvador transforming it from the murder capital of a South American country to the safest and an 83% re election margin from the people. 

Well I'm of that "certain age" and I remember John Harvey- Jones with fondness. Met him a few times and not only was he a gentleman, but he was extremely knowledgeable. I think we need more people of his calibre now in the business world

[GMB]

5 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

I worked recently on helping to develop an IT system for one of the NHS Trusts. The biggest issue was that no-one in the NHS IT team had a clue about how to write a specification for what they wanted. So, we would be delivering functionality based on loose specs so they could see how something worked and then they would decide whether they liked that or wanted to change it. The problem then comes as times goes on that they kept changing their minds about earlier features as we rolled out new features which meant that to make those changes we had to go back and undo a load of stuff that we had been settled earlier. The costs of all of this just kept compounding until they ran out of money and still didn't have something fit for purpose. The NHS staff (at least from my experience) are wholly in capable of managing any IT project. We kept trying to explain the consequences of their approach but they just wouldn't listen (or understand). We had meetings and meetings of loads of people, most who I couldn't work out what they did day-to-day. Most (if not all) just seemed to be there to fill their time from 9-5 each day and then go home and forget about whatever it was they came to the meeting for...

That is so true!  I remember it well. We had similar regular discussions because they kept wanting to add more and more functions and then changing their minds. The difference is that we had a small team who were prepared to discuss this with the users and come to a compromise that worked. Happy days!

[John Adams]

13 minutes ago, John Adams said:

Well I'm of that "certain age" and I remember John Harvey- Jones with fondness. Met him a few times and not only was he a gentleman, but he was extremely knowledgeable. I think we need more people of his calibre now in the business world

I should add that at the time my ultimate boss was Lord King who was a favourite of Maggie. He was as tough as nails and wouldn't stand any nonsense. Maggie made him Chairman of BA which at the time was a basket case. I remember the unions threatening an all out strike  to bring the airline to standstill.  He told them in no uncertain terms that if they did that, he would close the airline for good. Whether  he meant it or not, it worked and unions gave in. I often wonder what his reaction today would be to all the current employments laws and woke nonsense. Different times then but good memories for me.

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Kevin Williams said:

 

A very pertinent article, Kevin!

The ratio of medical and non-medical staff in the NHS is what I have always considered to be the most disturbing factor.  The NHS budget is - apparently - at its highest ever level, but given more money it appears that the management tend to prioritise spending it on….more managers!

I believe that this in the main accounts for the statistic showing the decreased productivity of the medical staff.

 

[Phil xxkr]

14 minutes ago, LenT said:

Pretty much, thanks Phil.

Having survived the NHS, a period in a Care Home got her back to eating again.  One of the problems with the Hospital was that food would be placed in front of her by the catering staff - and then removed by the same person who hadn’t noticed that it hadn’t been touched!

I changed my daily visits to coincide with meals so that I could ensure that she got some assistance.  Nurses would say they were too busy, but it doesn’t take medical training to feed someone.  

This is so infuriating when it's common knowledge that proper quality nutrition hastens getting better sooner thereby reducing time occupying a bed, ergo less nursing time per capita. But where is the incentive? At the Lexus garage when your car is on the service ramp the incentive to get it done and off is clear. If it were not so then I predict an oil change taking 8 hours 😎

[wharfhouse]

25 minutes ago, LenT said:

Pretty much, thanks Phil.

Having survived the NHS, a period in a Care Home got her back to eating again.  One of the problems with the Hospital was that food would be placed in front of her by the catering staff - and then removed by the same person who hadn’t noticed that it hadn’t been touched!

I changed my daily visits to coincide with meals so that I could ensure that she got some assistance.  Nurses would say they were too busy, but it doesn’t take medical training to feed someone.  

Had a similar experience when my wife was very ill in hospital over a few months a couple of years ago. If it wasn't for me going in, complaining about the basics of what they should have been doing, taking on it on myself to do some of those tasks, and in one case demanding that I be there when the consultant saw her and telling him that he had to do something about the deterioration she was suffering (which resulted in another operation or the consequences would have been terminal), I seriously wonder whether she would have actually ever got better and come home again - it was a scary time... 

[Phil xxkr]

22 minutes ago, John Adams said:

Well I'm of that "certain age" and I remember John Harvey- Jones with fondness. Met him a few times and not only was he a gentleman, but he was extremely knowledgeable. I think we need more people of his calibre now in the business world

In the late sixties onwards I was involved in Industrial engineering. The Americans had Edwards Deming we had JHJ - a true legend in the business of improving situations. 

[John Adams]

14 minutes ago, LenT said:

A very pertinent article, Kevin!

The ratio of medical and non-medical staff in the NHS is what I have always considered to be the most disturbing factor.  The NHS budget is - apparently - at its highest ever level, but given more money it appears that the management tend to prioritise spending it on….more managers!

I believe that this in the main accounts for the statistic showing the decreased productivity of the medical staff.

 

Len, you are so right about the number of managers. At our hospital they are proliferating and coming up with all these wonderful ideas. You won't believe this- but I am not joking- but when I went for a scan a few weeks ago, the receptionist asked me a few questions. Do I need a translator, what is my preferred language of communication and then to cap it all I was asked if I was or could I  be pregnant. Honestly I couldn't believe it. A man of my age. I was told this was their new diversity policy and that I had to answer. I know what I would have liked to have said but they would probably have kicked me out. So I said I didn't think I was pregnant because I am on the pill. This was accepted without question. What has this country come to?

[Phil xxkr]

6 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Had a similar experience when my wife was very ill in hospital over a few months a couple of years ago. If it wasn't for me going in, complaining about the basics of what they should have been doing, taking on it on myself to do some of those tasks, and in one case demanding that I be there when the consultant saw her and telling him that he had to do something about the deterioration she was suffering (which resulted in another operation or the consequences would have been terminal), I seriously wonder whether she would have actually ever got better and come home again - it was a scary time... 

There was a time when deference to Consultants and the like was absolute but no longer. The wider access to knowledge previously held in their tight circle is freely available allowing us to challenge and question. But in doing so assume in yourself that of taking responsibility for getting the outcome you want. 

[Phil xxkr]

44 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

I worked recently on helping to develop an IT system for one of the NHS Trusts. The biggest issue was that no-one in the NHS IT team had a clue about how to write a specification for what they wanted. So, we would be delivering functionality based on loose specs so they could see how something worked and then they would decide whether they liked that or wanted to change it. The problem then comes as times goes on that they kept changing their minds about earlier features as we rolled out new features which meant that to make those changes we had to go back and undo a load of stuff that we had been settled earlier. The costs of all of this just kept compounding until they ran out of money and still didn't have something fit for purpose. The NHS staff (at least from my experience) are wholly in capable of managing any IT project. We kept trying to explain the consequences of their approach but they just wouldn't listen (or understand). We had meetings and meetings of loads of people, most who I couldn't work out what they did day-to-day. Most (if not all) just seemed to be there to fill their time from 9-5 each day and then go home and forget about whatever it was they came to the meeting for...

Ah! The much loved "scope creep" the only party disadvantaged here is the patient. The IT staff, supplier/NHS involved still get paid for no viable outcome. 

[Phil xxkr]

18 minutes ago, John Adams said:

Len, you are so right about the number of managers. At our hospital they are proliferating and coming up with all these wonderful ideas. You won't believe this- but I am not joking- but when I went for a scan a few weeks ago, the receptionist asked me a few questions. Do I need a translator, what is my preferred language of communication and then to cap it all I was asked if I was or could I  be pregnant. Honestly I couldn't believe it. A man of my age. I was told this was their new diversity policy and that I had to answer. I know what I would have liked to have said but they would probably have kicked me out. So I said I didn't think I was pregnant because I am on the pill. This was accepted without question. What has this country come to?

John, I am less concerned about what we have "come too" than where we are heading. 🤔

[LenT]

24 minutes ago, John Adams said:

and then to cap it all I was asked if I was or could I  be pregnant.

I too was asked this recently - albeit rather apologetically and as part of a box ticking exercise - by an NHS admin person.  My reply was that the age of 80 I had almost certainly gone through the manopause!

At least she laughed!

[Kevin Williams]

1 hour ago, John Adams said:

Well I'm of that "certain age" and I remember John Harvey- Jones with fondness. Met him a few times and not only was he a gentleman, but he was extremely knowledgeable. I think we need more people of his calibre now in the business world

If only Richard Branson would get involved in sorting our NHS...!

[Malc1]

13 minutes ago, Kevin Williams said:

If only Richard Branson would get involved in sorting our NHS...!

I’m thinking as an OAP and well versed in drugs he just might be the dose of salts the NHS needs, or seriously doesn’t need ( who knows 😅) and most definitely his Team around him might well have some useful input to our revered NHS …….. for it’s they who have possibly kept him in the picture when a good deal has emerged ……. again, who knows ……. he’s possibly been voiding use of the NHS for very many decades and might need a short sharp shock to learn and understand what the NHS is all about ……. he could join Wes Streeting  Starmer. Reeves and all on that Training Course ….. but who could be their tutor one asks 😂🤣

Malc 

Best just to give em all another 5% pay rise and blame 14 years of Conservative Govt adding yet another £10bn to this amazing Black Hole …… makes sense ….. gotta blame someone else 🥵😰👏👏👏

Malc 

[Phil xxkr]

35 minutes ago, Kevin Williams said:

If only Richard Branson would get involved in sorting our NHS...!

Gawd help us Kevin! The same RB who lives out of reach of the NHS and HMRC? The same RB who is great at creating a product brand before selling it off. Think Vcola, VCosmetics Vvie, Vjeans, Vorbit and so on and on. Trust you were not an investor? The big Pharmas, the big IT firms, the big Consultancy firms don't need another expert intervening in the Billions they make every month from the NHS 🤠

[John Adams]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

I too was asked this recently - albeit rather apologetically and as part of a box ticking exercise - by an NHS admin person.  My reply was that the age of 80 I had almost certainly gone through the manopause!

At least she laughed!

At least you got a laugh. When I said I was on the pill she wrote it down without question. A laugh would go a long way in instances like this.