Winter fuel payment

[Boomer54]

2 hours ago, Poundy said:

Not so much now, costing me about $1.97 to buy a £1 back in 2014 I could get it for around $1.40. On the plus side  on selling my UK B'mth house and arriving in Australia in 1989 I have been mortgage free since, and returned 2015.

Hmm , back in 1989 your £1  bought a hell of lot of AUSD. So wonderful time to recapitalisation asset value from UK to Aus. March forward and Chinese globalisation lit a fire under AUS commodities and what you began earning in AUSD bought ever more £'s as the AUSD had the £ for breakfast. Moreover, that same growth accelerated the value of your newly bought property. Not until well after the 2008 financial put cold water on global growth did that begin to change. Simple fact is being in the right place doing the right thing (moving) makes you look like a financial genius. I should know having any enjoyed similar good fortune through blind chance.

[Bounce75]

Now I am really sorry about this & I am sure I will get shouted down, but I personally know of 4 people who receive the winter fuel payment & all 4 are on pensions of between £60-£100k a year. Is this right? Personally I don't think so, but I am probably in the minority.

I took early retirement at 60, 3 years ago as I had been working since the age of 15 & saved as when I could into a pension fund, but I never expected to get the winter fuel payment when I got to 67 whoever was in government.

I think it should be means tested, but I feel the limit should be set a bit higher than what it is at the moment as some people who get just over the limit still need help.

[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

But what was the choice? I knew labour policy isn't personally beneficial for me, yet one can't continue voting for tories and continue winging that country is going to shaite? There was simply no way and no reason why anyone should vote for tories when they have consistently shown that they are inept and corrupt, literally can't even govern their own party, nevermind the country. 

In many cases it is similar to politics abroad - trump or biden (now kamala), are they good candidates? Any of them? No they are all bad, so who do you vote for? For the same reason I have disengaged myself from politics, because I am just so tired to make a choice between bad and worst.

Somebody once said - you don't vote for what you like, you vote against those you hate. And in many ways vote for labour was less to do with labour and more to do with complete failure of tories. Even many commentators agreed - it is not so much labour won as much as tories just completely lost it. 

Do I believe they will be much better than tories? No - doubt it... but I can't see how they could be much worse. As for fuel winter fuel subsidies... to be honest I don't like the idea and I am for abolishment of it, why should working age people who can't even afford housing pay to heat old people mansions... you know I am always hyperbolic, I know not all old people live in mansions, but it needs to be said - most of current generation can even afford the damn flat, so the heating thing is kind of moot. All in all, I believe this policy will prove popular with public... that is why they did it (populism, they are all populists).

Next thing - inheritance tax... and despite I strongly oppose it on principal level... it is badly needed and it is needed now when biggest transfer of wealth in history of human civilisation is happening between generations (obviously uber-rich will avoid it, because they don't wait until their death to sort out their finances). 

The irony in your statement is that you assume junior doctors "benefits" from that training. No it is you (us) who benefits from it. So this point is really irrelevant, if that training would not be provided then we would have no junior doctors, what's then?

For once we are not really disagreeing. Lack of alternatives were a real problem. No party offered something we wanted so much as offering a way out of what we had.

However, my real point all through this has been about how badly we have been governed for literally decades so why do we allow it to continue?  Beggar Brexit we should be having a referendum on Votexit. Demanding that we have a better process for ensuring our votes actually count for something that really represents what we want to see done in this country in a much more Democratic way. I love referendums and I would have one on every major policy rather than leave it to an handful of politicians.

[Phil xxkr]

2 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

Yes there is so little done to encourage entrepreneurship in this country any more - it's all about how much can be squeezed out of those least able to resist aka micro and small businesses - and dream up more and more obscure tax rules that are difficult if not impossible to defend against (IR 35 being one). The Conservatives had lots of opportunity to put right some of those wrongs but were not interested in small businesses seeing them as an easy cash cow rather than an investment and aren't therefore much better than Labour in that respect. I'm starting to wind down now and will eventually retire. Really not sure I'd try to start a business again if I was in the same position as I was a couple of decades ago. My brother started a business about the same time as me and has recently sold it and it was such a huge relief for him too when he could finally step away from it. 

There's no support now for those willing to take a risk and create wealth - just more and more people working in the public sector ringing up liabilities there will be no one left to pay for. And I have some of my family working in the public sector (linked to defence of our realm) and TBH I've now said to them they might as well get what they can as working in the private sector is becoming a hiding to nothing. 

You should read Intellectuals and Society by Thomas Sowell to get the real insight into how we got to where we are now. 🙁

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

31 minutes ago, RONNIE W HODGEKINSON said:

Seems Like.. The Cats Signed a Nimby Petition.. Certainly Doesn't Want The RIFF/RAFF Moving In.. Although Is Does Seem They,ve Moved in Already Mmmmmmm.....

Sadly.. Larry The Downing Street Cat Has been Refused His Winter Garden Fuel Allowance Because he is Not Getting PETSON Credit..DIABOLICAL..!!! Whats The World Coming To..!!!!

[Poundy]

52 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

Hmm , back in 1989 your £1  bought a hell of lot of AUSD. So wonderful time to recapitalisation asset value from UK to Aus. March forward and Chinese globalisation lit a fire under AUS commodities and what you began earning in AUSD bought ever more £'s as the AUSD had the £ for breakfast. Moreover, that same growth accelerated the value of your newly bought property. Not until well after the 2008 financial put cold water on global growth did that begin to change. Simple fact is being in the right place doing the right thing (moving) makes you look like a financial genius. I should know having any enjoyed similar good fortune through blind chance.

i guess we all have winning and losing spells in life, 1989 worked out well for us. I remember the exchange rate at that time, we were sat in an Australian Pub Garden on the day we needed to complete our new house purchase. The rate was fluctuating a lot at the time I eventually converted it @ $2.10. A couple of months before and I could have got nearer $3. But the following year, UK housing prices crashed with interest rates at around 18%,and  owners selling for below what they owed on them, because of unemployment. Had we not left the year before it could have been a different financial scenario for us. Same on our return in 2015, my funds bought me around 50% less at $2.10 compared to $1.47 if we had returned 18mths earlier. 

Still I have no regrets, the only real constant in my life is that regardless of the Party in charge, It always seems to have cost me financially. lol!

[wharfhouse]

43 minutes ago, Bounce75 said:

Now I am really sorry about this & I am sure I will get shouted down, but I personally know of 4 people who receive the winter fuel payment & all 4 are on pensions of between £60-£100k a year. Is this right? Personally I don't think so, but I am probably in the minority.

I took early retirement at 60, 3 years ago as I had been working since the age of 15 & saved as when I could into a pension fund, but I never expected to get the winter fuel payment when I got to 67 whoever was in government.

I think it should be means tested, but I feel the limit should be set a bit higher than what it is at the moment as some people who get just over the limit still need help.

I'd have no problem with means testing winter fuel allowance such as linked to pension credit if the basic state pension was something people could actually survive on but there are many pensioners who do need the winter fuel allowance and now won't receive it. The means testing that has been used is cruel to those who are just at state pension and worked all their life to get that. Giving winter fuel allowance to all pensioners may be wrong but this change is just as wrong in the other direction... 

[Planning ahead]

If you can afford a Lexus you don't need the Winter Fuel payment. Been getting ours a few years now and it seemed bizarre to us that with our state pension and 4 occupational pensions we were getting a payment that should be there to help those with the lowest incomes, not simply all those over 66 years old.

Lets hope that the new government does more to reduce the handouts to the richest.

Love to see some higher tax rates for those high earners.

After 14 years of Conservative mismanagement the money to correct stuff has to come form somewhere and it should be the better off that pay.

 

[Malc1]

44 minutes ago, Bounce75 said:

Now I am really sorry about this & I am sure I will get shouted down, but I personally know of 4 people who receive the winter fuel payment & all 4 are on pensions of between £60-£100k a year. Is this right? Personally I don't think so, but I am probably in the minority.

I took early retirement at 60, 3 years ago as I had been working since the age of 15 & saved as when I could into a pension fund, but I never expected to get the winter fuel payment when I got to 67 whoever was in government.

I think it should be means tested, but I feel the limit should be set a bit higher than what it is at the moment as some people who get just over the limit still need help.

For high income OAPs there was the Socially Responsible option to just not accept ……..  it didn’t have to be paid out at all ……. 
Others without the “ need “ might have accepted but then donated it to a charity ……. 
 

There’s many OAPs that will be severely detrimentally impacted by this BLUNT cancellation ……. and as I outlined earlier, for all sorts of reasons, could be the ones who die thru the cold ……

State induced OAP deaths

…….. thru the cold  this winter will follow ……. as night follows day ……… 

But Starmer and his Labour Govt Socialist Team is immune to any of this protestation I’m sure  …….. brush it under the carpet ……. it will vanish with time …… as these pesky OAPs kick da bouquet 🥵

Malc 

[Poundy]

9 minutes ago, Planning ahead said:

If you can afford a Lexus you don't need the Winter Fuel payment. Been getting ours a few years now and it seemed bizarre to us that with our state pension and 4 occupational pensions we were getting a payment that should be there to help those with the lowest incomes, not simply all those over 66 years old.

Lets hope that the new government does more to reduce the handouts to the richest.

Love to see some higher tax rates for those high earners.

After 14 years of Conservative mismanagement the money to correct stuff has to come form somewhere and it should be the better off that pay.

 

So you are ok with the  £218 weekly income amount being the cut off figure as being too wealthy to qualify?

I think I prefer your other option do not give it to Lexus owners 

[Bounce75]

36 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

I'd have no problem with means testing winter fuel allowance such as linked to pension credit if the basic state pension was something people could actually survive on but there are many pensioners who do need the winter fuel allowance and now won't receive it. The means testing that has been used is cruel to those who are just at state pension and worked all their life to get that. Giving winter fuel allowance to all pensioners may be wrong but this change is just as wrong in the other direction... 

I totally agree, it has gone too much the other way now. The govenment have jumped in with both feet rather than thinking about it properly & coming up with a decent plan that only those that need it get it. 

[Planning ahead]

16 minutes ago, Poundy said:

So you are ok with the  £218 weekly income amount being the cut off figure as being too wealthy to qualify?

I think I prefer your other option do not give it to Lexus owners 

My now deceased MIL used to moan about the state pension and then give £50 a week back to the National Lottery plus other scams.

If people spent responsibly they would be fine.

[Boomer54]

42 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

I'd have no problem with means testing winter fuel allowance such as linked to pension credit if the basic state pension was something people could actually survive on but there are many pensioners who do need the winter fuel allowance and now won't receive it. The means testing that has been used is cruel to those who are just at state pension and worked all their life to get that. Giving winter fuel allowance to all pensioners may be wrong but this change is just as wrong in the other direction... 

Actually, it's 1.5 billion in so called savings. That 's a rounding error on GDP. Alternatively, a fraction of the money lost to failed policy.

Phrase it how you wish, but what might cause pause for thought is this. If you were really bright why would you risk a boatload of public backlash over such a peripheral scale of savings? There is a term I quite like goes "pick your fights". This one was probably quite a silly one to pick given the pensioner votes at stake.

[Bounce75]

23 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

For high income OAPs there was the Socially Responsible option to just not accept ……..  it didn’t have to be paid out at all ……. 
Others without the “ need “ might have accepted but then donated it to a charity ……. 
 

There’s many OAPs that will be severely detrimentally impacted by this BLUNT cancellation ……. and as I outlined earlier, for all sorts of reasons, could be the ones who die thru the cold ……

State induced OAP deaths

…….. thru the cold  this winter will follow ……. as night follows day ……… 

But Starmer and his Labour Govt Socialist Team is immune to any of this protestation I’m sure  …….. brush it under the carpet ……. it will vanish with time …… as these pesky OAPs kick da bouquet 🥵

Malc 

The quite rich pensioners I know just accepted it as a free gift, this is where I think it was wrong & I told them, but it was just brushed away with if the government is too stupid to limit it more fool them!!!

As I said, it should have a higher limit to help those that still need it & be taken away from those that don't.

[Malc1]

6 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

Actually, it's 1.5 billion in so called savings. That 's a rounding error on GDP. Alternatively, a fraction of the money lost to failed policy.

Phrase it how you wish, but what might cause pause for thought is this. If you were really bright why would you risk a boatload of public backlash over such a peripheral scale of savings? There us a term I quite like goes "pick your fights". This one was probably quite a silly one to pick given the pensioner votes at stake.

Those Pensioner Votes at Stake have passed already into the Starmer camp …… many years left for OAPensioners to suffer remorse ……. but not to worry …….. many many 000s will have kicked the bucket by the time of the next election….    ….. some thru the cold eh !  Not affording, being afraid to turn on the heating this winter 🥵

Malc 

[Poundy]

1 hour ago, Planning ahead said:

My now deceased MIL used to moan about the state pension and then give £50 a week back to the National Lottery plus other scams.

If people spent responsibly they would be fine.

Hard for me to imagine anyone living on £218 pound per week spending it irresponsibly. That doesn't pay rent and food in the real world, perhaps your MIL spending on lotto was a misguided but desperate attempt to improve her living conditions.

[Planning ahead]

1 minute ago, Poundy said:

Hard for me to imagine anyone living on £218 pound per week spending it irresponsibly. That doesn't pay rent and food in the real world, perhaps you MIL spending on lotto was a misguided but desperate attempt to improve her living conditions.

Her living conditions were fine. Her rent and food bill was nowhere near the state pension plus she had her deceased industrial pension as well. She lived very well but wasted as much as she bought. She could have lived far better but for her stubbornness to insist that she had to have an open fire instead of gas heating. We estimated she was spending in excess of £2000 a year on coke for a small 1/2 bed semi bungalow. We are paying about £700 a year on gas for a 4 bed detached.

She had savings but unfortunately she had not told the council about them nor the pension from her husband. Thus when she died the council wanted the housing and rates benefits back for several years. It was a surprise for the wife but she had to pay the monies owed.

The MIL's brother has been doing exactly the same. Only found out when he was admitted to hospital. Currently trying to sort out the mess while he is still here.

They both say/said the same thing, their income is nothing to do with the council, the government or the tax man.

 

[rayaans]

6 hours ago, Poundy said:

Education is not a free pass to high income, money is made by hard graft and supply and Demand, I use trades people a lot more often than the Medical profession and when I need to see  one there is no GP's available or the Hospitals are on strike. The NHS is no longer fit for purpose regardless of how dedicated Nurses, Dr's and staff are. My wife was recently stuck  in a wheelchair in need of a damaged hip replacement. The options were stay in it for a least a year taking pain killers or stump up £20k. I was lucky to have the funds, but many may not be as fortunate. On arriving for the op the Juniors were out flag waving show me the money lol! 

If you want something like Cataract surgery you are now farmed out to a Private company bypassing the NHS but paid the NHS estimated procedure cost that would have been incurred by them. A win, win situation top service but the same cost to the tax payer and no long waiting list. Subsidised means tested medical treatment will be the final solution, forget all this "save our NHS" codswallop it's not working regardless who is in power. Just my 2c of course 

I dont think you understand how the healthcare system in the UK works. 

That private company bypassing the NHS costs approximately 1.5 times more than what it would cost the NHS otherwise. Same cost to the taxpayer it definitely isnt

[Malc1]

On the NHS subject …….. just an impossible entity to understand for anyone …. 1.25 million employees ……. largest global employer outside of the Chinese Army ……… 

I understand it has immense impossible challenges and there’s no-one person or body with the capacity to make it work as efficiently as us mere mortals could ever wish

BUT WHAT I DO KNOW …….. for me and my kin …… personal firsthand experience …… it was there for me 110% at my point of NEED ……..

I wouldn’t be writing this now if the NHS in all its guises hadn’t performed effective miracles ……. AND I’m sure there’s plenty of us here, reading this, that have the same life’s experiences and outcomes 

 

Trouble is all us oldies have been kept going with amazing technology cures and skills that have prolonged our time here and we thus become an even greater recipient of NHS stuff for, hopefully, years to come …….. NHS is just BRILLIANT and improve it all if you can but I’m sure no-one’s got the capacity to do so quickly 

NHS is BRILLIANT overall but like most businesses has it’s fair share of gaumless   *****’oles, crooks and nutcases 

I wouldn’t be without it   NHS Gets my Vote 120%👍👏😄

🙏

Malc 

 

[Malc1]

But let’s get back to the subject eh 

Winter Fuel Payment

 

Malc  

[Boomer54]

12 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

But let’s get back to the subject eh 

Winter Fuel Payment

 

Malc  

Ok, I cave. Send me your bank details and I'll send you your payment in November(ish).

Please send your thanks c/o my my P.O. Box in Mauritius

[Malc1]

Donations to ….. meeeow 

Cats Protection charity please 

10 Downing Street pussy might need the attention if he gets homeless …… along with his Masster over all this kafuffle 😄

Malc 

[Poundy]

35 minutes ago, rayaans said:

I dont think you understand how the healthcare system in the UK works. 

That private company bypassing the NHS costs approximately 1.5 times more than what it would cost the NHS otherwise. Same cost to the taxpayer it definitely isnt

Like I said in the Post, the private Cataract surgery is performed on behalf of the NHS for a fee equivalent to what it costs the NHS to perform in house. No more no less, this has reduced the waiting times and availability targets that the NHS are unable to meet. There is no reason why additional surgical procedures couldn't meet the same criteria. Anyone who thinks the NHS can be turned into a well oiled efficiently run health system under government control and by throwing more cash at, is at best very naïve. As for me not knowing how the UK health system works. 1/ it doesn't work, it is nigh on impossible to get life saving treatment for many and 2/ I think 55years spent in England gives me a few of the "why and wherefores". Government would do well to spend the money on subsidising the system to the professionals instead of spending billions on wastage like during Covid by the likes of Bojo and broom cupboard Hancock.

.

[The-Acre]

13 hours ago, Malc1 said:

For high income OAPs there was the Socially Responsible option to just not accept ……..  it didn’t have to be paid out at all ……. 
Others without the “ need “ might have accepted but then donated it to a charity ……. 
 

There’s many OAPs that will be severely detrimentally impacted by this BLUNT cancellation ……. and as I outlined earlier, for all sorts of reasons, could be the ones who die thru the cold ……

State induced OAP deaths

…….. thru the cold  this winter will follow ……. as night follows day ……… 

But Starmer and his Labour Govt Socialist Team is immune to any of this protestation I’m sure  …….. brush it under the carpet ……. it will vanish with time …… as these pesky OAPs kick da bouquet 🥵

Malc 

Blunt is the right word, phasing it out for future pensioners, like they did when raising the pension age would have made more sense to me. But then when did much that's done in government lately make much sense.

[Tickedon]

16 hours ago, Linas.P said:

The irony in your statement is that you assume junior doctors "benefits" from that training. No it is you (us) who benefits from it. So this point is really irrelevant, if that training would not be provided then we would have no junior doctors, what's then?

They benefit from it with massive earnings potential over their career, which as consultants gets them into the top 5% of UK earners, and an NHS pension which is pretty much the most generous public sector pension scheme in the country. 

They can also - as has been pointed out - decide to run off to the USA or Australia, having had us pay for their training, and thus we don’t benefit.

If Doctors want USA style pay, they should stump up and pay for their own training (as they would in the USA, $40-60k per year in costs).