Winter fuel payment

[Boomer54]

2 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

I worked recently on helping to develop an IT system for one of the NHS Trusts. The biggest issue was that no-one in the NHS IT team had a clue about how to write a specification for what they wanted. So, we would be delivering functionality based on loose specs so they could see how something worked and then they would decide whether they liked that or wanted to change it. The problem then comes as times goes on that they kept changing their minds about earlier features as we rolled out new features which meant that to make those changes we had to go back and undo a load of stuff that we had been settled earlier. The costs of all of this just kept compounding until they ran out of money and still didn't have something fit for purpose. The NHS staff (at least from my experience) are wholly in capable of managing any IT project. We kept trying to explain the consequences of their approach but they just wouldn't listen (or understand). We had meetings and meetings of loads of people, most who I couldn't work out what they did day-to-day. Most (if not all) just seemed to be there to fill their time from 9-5 each day and then go home and forget about whatever it was they came to the meeting for...

The harsh reality is in it's public format the NHS too big, too unwieldy, too fragmented and on and on, to ever be made operationally efficient. That is why the legend that was JHJ walked away. It can't be done without almost starting again which is not going to happen. Plan B which is happening is a system where gradually the private sector take on more and more of the public caseload. Trouble is the timeline looks so long none of us are going to see how it works out.

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

I’m thinking as an OAP and well versed in drugs he just might be the dose of salts the NHS needs, or seriously doesn’t need ( who knows 😅) and most definitely his Team around him might well have some useful input to our revered NHS …….. for it’s they who have possibly kept him in the picture when a good deal has emerged ……. again, who knows ……. he’s possibly been voiding use of the NHS for very many decades and might need a short sharp shock to learn and understand what the NHS is all about ……. he could join Wes Streeting  Starmer. Reeves and all on that Training Course ….. but who could be their tutor one asks 😂🤣

Malc 

Best just to give em all another 5% pay rise and blame 14 years of Conservative Govt adding yet another £10bn to this amazing Black Hole …… makes sense ….. gotta blame someone else 🥵😰👏👏👏

Malc 

You're not going to like me for this but are you aware of Age Champions from Age Uk? They are MP's who have pledged to support older people and their quality of life. Unbelievably on the list are Labour MP's who voted with the government to stop the WFA. 😱😱😱. 

A spokesman from the OED said there are no words to describe this 😕

[Boomer54]

5 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

You're not going to like me for this but are you aware of Age Champions from Age Uk? They are MP's who have pledged to support older people and their quality of life. Unbelievably on the list are Labour MP's who voted with the government to stop the WFA. 😱😱😱. 

A spokesman from the OED said there are no words to describe this 😕

I can think of one word that describes it very well. Hypocrisy.

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Boomer54 said:

Trouble is the timeline looks so long none of us are going to see how it works out.

Well, you can at least try, Stephen. 

[Phil xxkr]

30 minutes ago, LenT said:

Well, you can at least try, Stephen. 

Edmund Burke! 

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Boomer54 said:

Plan B which is happening is a system where gradually the private sector take on more and more of the public caseload.

Oh, the irony!

In opposition the clarion call was to rally against the evil Tory Plan to privatise OUR NHS!  But then they also decried the Tory consideration to cease the WFA.

Funny how attitudes change when you actually become responsible for getting things done.

[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

Oh, the irony!

In opposition the clarion call was to rally against the evil Tory Plan to privatise OUR NHS!  But then they also decried the Tory consideration to cease the WFA.

Funny how attitudes change when you actually become responsible for getting things done.

In truth I think you will find this really got legs during the Consrvative term of office. Although I suspect that even pragmatic Labour MP's understand that shrinking waiting lists is only going to happen by subborning the private sector.

[Malc1]

To my certain knowledge, personally, the NHS had sent me to a Private Hospital ( Kims Maidstone ) for an NHS funded operation quite some years back 

It is of course the same surgeons that spread their time between their NHS duties, Private Hospital duties and their own Private Clinics ……. this hasn’t changed for years and I’m sure will continue unabated for the greater benefit of all us impoverished NHS patients 

This system seems to work ok, well for me anyway thankfully 😅 

So far as I’m concerned the NHS is functioning very well and in a timely fashion …… long may it continue to do so for the greater good of us impoverished ……. and other plebs 🤞👍🙏

Malc 

[Tickedon]

1 hour ago, Boomer54 said:

In truth I think you will find this really got legs during the Consrvative term of office. Although I suspect that even pragmatic Labour MP's understand that shrinking waiting lists is only going to happen by subborning the private sector.

Independent analysis shows there was no marked increase in “privatisation” under the Conservatives:

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/long-reads/big-election-questions-nhs-privatised

”Overall, there is no evidence of a significant increase in spending on private providers or widespread privatisation of services in recent years.”

It should be remembered that Labour baked in private sector involvement from the founding of the NHS - at the time of its creation the doctor’s union required GP practices to remain independent and private, outside the NHS.

Conservative governments have ran the NHS for nearly two-thirds of its existence, and yet it’s still standing. Stop drinking the Labour kool aid and “24 hours to save the NHS” slogans, take off the blinders, and consider how we have an NHS fit for the 21st century.

[Phil xxkr]

3 hours ago, LenT said:

Oh, the irony!

In opposition the clarion call was to rally against the evil Tory Plan to privatise OUR NHS!  But then they also decried the Tory consideration to cease the WFA.

Funny how attitudes change when you actually become responsible for getting things done.

The vocabulary of the political left is fascinating. For example, it is considered to be 'materialistic' and 'greedy' to want to keep what you have earned. But it is 'idealistic' to want to take away what someone else has earned and spend it for your own political benefit or to feel good about yourself.

Thomas Sowell 

[Phil xxkr]

2 minutes ago, Tickedon said:

Independent analysis shows there was no marked increase in “privatisation” under the Conservatives:

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/long-reads/big-election-questions-nhs-privatised

”Overall, there is no evidence of a significant increase in spending on private providers or widespread privatisation of services in recent years.”

It should be remembered that Labour baked in private sector involvement from the founding of the NHS - at the time of its creation the doctor’s union required GP practices to remain independent and private, outside the NHS.

Conservative governments have ran the NHS for nearly two-thirds of its existence, and yet it’s still standing. Stop drinking the Labour kool aid and “24 hours to save the NHS” slogans, take off the blinders, and consider how we have an NHS fit for the 21st century.

Don't you just love the facts 👍I certainly do! 

[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, Tickedon said:

Independent analysis shows there was no marked increase in “privatisation” under the Conservatives:

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/long-reads/big-election-questions-nhs-privatised

”Overall, there is no evidence of a significant increase in spending on private providers or widespread privatisation of services in recent years.”

It should be remembered that Labour baked in private sector involvement from the founding of the NHS - at the time of its creation the doctor’s union required GP practices to remain independent and private, outside the NHS.

Conservative governments have ran the NHS for nearly two-thirds of its existence, and yet it’s still standing. Stop drinking the Labour kool aid and “24 hours to save the NHS” slogans, take off the blinders, and consider how we have an NHS fit for the 21st century.

Yes, and if we then proceed to read the entire article including the summary of course then their findings are not out of line with what I said. Indeed, given the date of that report I would be very interested to see where we are now several years on

I too love 'facts' as long as they are not cherrypicked.

[Malc1]

AGE. UK.  Petition

WINTER FUEL PAYMENT

560,560. Signatures now 👍👏👏👏

Malc 

[Phil xxkr]

15 hours ago, Boomer54 said:

Yes, and if we then proceed to read the entire article including the summary of course then their findings are not out of line with what I said. Indeed, given the date of that report I would be very interested to see where we are now several years on

I too love 'facts' as long as they are not cherrypicked.

Overall, there is no evidence of a significant increase in spending on private providers or widespread privatisation of services in recent years.(King's Fund) 

This is the Lancets position on privatisation "There is only a small number of studies addressing the effect of privatisation on the quality of care offered by health-care providers, and yet within this small group of longitudinal studies, we find a fairly consistent picture. At the very least, health-care privatisation has almost never had a positive effect on the quality of care. But outsourcing is not benign either, as it can reduce costs, but seems to do so at the expense of quality of care. Overall, our Review provides evidence challenging the justifications for health-care privatisation and concludes that the scientific support for further privatisation of health-care services is weak" (The Lancet) 

More from the Lancet. "A study in The Lancet Public Health by Benjamin Goodair and Aaron Reeves sheds light on the impact of the outsourcing requirements of the Health and Social Care Act. The authors identified all private sector procurement contracts above the value of £25 000 entered into by 173 of England's clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) between April, 2013, and February, 2020. Importantly, the authors were able to determine which contracts went to for-profit providers and which went to non-profit organisations. This approach allowed them to focus specifically on profit-seeking behaviour rather than private ownership more generally. Over the study period, contracts with for-profit providers increased from less than 4% of total procurement expenditure to more than 6%"

Looking further into this I am finding contemporary numbers is really difficult but the Doh are predicting for 24/25 budgeted expediture £192 Billion with the private sector accounting for £10.5 Billion. I now refer everyone to the King's Fund Overall comment. Hardly barbarians at the gate. 

[Malc1]

And it’s only 5% of the spend too it seems 🤔

a drop in the ocean methinks ! 

Malc 

[Boomer54]

51 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

And it’s only 5% of the spend too it seems 🤔

a drop in the ocean methinks ! 

Malc 

To recap. I said it appeared to me that the plan B of utilising the private sector as opposed to expanding the public sector was increasing, but that it was so slow "none of us would see it to completion. The report in question showed year on year increase in activity and revenue from 2018/19. Unfortunately, that is their latest dsta, but my best guess is it will have gathered pace across the intervening 'Covid' years.

However, the above was a fraction in terms of the overall healthcare expenditure even if we accept their disclosure that expenditure data is hard to quantify.

Pretty much what I said. Do I need to clarify this further for you?

[Malc1]

NHS business is so so hybrid in that much of the professional headcount is encouraged to work both for the NHS and in their own private enterprises …….. it’s a brilliant solution for our Nation and the HMRC tax take must be really good from all these multi faceted workers with several jobs …… shows tremendous entrepreneurial spirit with some very very clever persons …… all to be hugely encouraged methinks 👍

Malc 

 

560,689. Signatures now to the 

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[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

NHS business is so so hybrid in that much of the professional headcount is encouraged to work both for the NHS and in their own private enterprises …….. it’s a brilliant solution for our Nation and the HMRC tax take must be really good from all these multi faceted workers with several jobs …… shows tremendous entrepreneurial spirit with some very very clever persons …… all to be hugely encouraged methinks 👍

Malc 

 

560,689. Signatures now to the 

AGE. UK.  Petition 👏👏👏

As in your case Malc I have also had care delivered by the private sector. Some paid for by me and some channeled through the NHS like yours. I have to say the care process appears smoother in the private hospital as opposed to the NHS hospital. Just less delays and waiting around to start with. Having said all that I will quote my wife word for word (old style Matron) "if you are going to have major surgery do it within the NHS, because if things go wrong that is where you are going to find the most resources to fix it". She was referring to the cases where things have gone wrong and ironically had to be shunted back from the private hospital into the NHS Trust hospital. That is the viewpoint based upon nigh 45 years of clinical experience from one of the most competent people I have been blessed to know. In these matters I always defer to her.

[Malc1]

To me the novelty of having consulting and surgery in what seems to be a new or newish hospital environment simply installs a feeling of “ it’s better “ ……… even tho it’s the self same surgeon as I see/saw in the rather drab old worn NHS hospital building earlier ( or later ) …….. appearances count, especially if you’re a Private patient paying lots of £££££££ to enjoy a nicer cuppa in a better more recently painted corridor  😂

Thankfully my hospital visits are infrequent and I’m easy to please just so long as I’m thinking I’m seeing the Best People for the job 

I truly admire the NHS and the staff 👍

Malc 

[fourbanks]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGdRmESEA/ 

Nothing changed, Mr garnet spot on as always 🤣

[Phil xxkr]

12 hours ago, Malc1 said:

AGE. UK.  Petition

WINTER FUEL PAYMENT

560,560. Signatures now 👍👏👏👏

Malc 

Today's daily disaster

Millions of pounds in Winter Fuel Allowance (WFA) has been paid out to people living outside the UK, it has emerged.

In the year 2023/24 there were 34,307 of the payments made to people across the EU, including in Italy, Romania, Croatia and Bulgaria. And a few to Liechtenstein who aren't even in the EU! 

 

[Malc1]

Might be they are British OAPs in very cold climes living on the breadline too and simply entitled, as such  they receive their DWP pensions whatever 

Malc 

[GMB]

12 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Today's daily disaster

Millions of pounds in Winter Fuel Allowance (WFA) has been paid out to people living outside the UK, it has emerged.

In the year 2023/24 there were 34,307 of the payments made to people across the EU, including in Italy, Romania, Croatia and Bulgaria. And a few to Liechtenstein who aren't even in the EU! 

True.   But the way the gov't at the time decided who got it and who didn't was arbitrary.  We lived in the South of France where on some occasions in winter on a clear night it could get down to -15 deg C. Not kidding! Mind you we were at 700 meters above sea level in the Haut Languedoc national park - well worth a visit!   SO--- we were not entitled to the WFA because France was considered too warm in winter because they took some tropical French islands into account ( Tahiti etc ).

FYI our heating bill was about 1000 Euros per year burning dry white oak at 50/60 Euros per stere ( a cubic metre )  Our 38Kw Cheminée insert was always on full belt from  1st November to 1st April .

[Phil xxkr]

10 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Might be they are British OAPs in very cold climes living on the breadline too and simply entitled, as such  they receive their DWP pensions whatever 

Malc 

In addition to other certain benefits You can carry on receiving your UK State Pension if you move to live in the EU, EEA or Switzerland and you can still claim your UK State Pension from these countries.

Your UK State Pension will be increased each year in these countries in line with the rate paid in the UK.

 

 

[Malc1]

1 minute ago, Phil xxkr said:

Your UK State Pension will be increased each year in these countries in line with the rate paid in the UK.

I understand from earlier that UK OAPs in Australia do NOT get any DWP increases 

Malc