Winter fuel payment

[Boomer54]

2 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

😂😂😂, there's no let up to this is there? Can you imagine what Spitting Image would have made of it? Oddly enough Aldi beans been have voted first place with Heinz coming 5th 😎

I wouldn't say he is looking toxic,but he would have been better off doing cleanup at Chernobly.

[Phil xxkr]

11 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

Now to be specific it is actually called winter fuel allowance and he definitely will need that just to run the Aircon !

To be even more specific it's called the Winter Fuel Payment and it's payable in 25 countries other than the UK if you are being means tested in that country. No room for fiddling there then 😎

[Malc1]

5 hours ago, Malc1 said:

536,421   Signatures now  👋👋

 

Malc

537,033.  Signatures to date 👏👏👏

Malc 

[Phil xxkr]

10 hours ago, Boomer54 said:

On that basis  the answer to the question "will your policy directly lead to the uneccessary deaths of OAP's this winter?" must surely be an undeniable yes.

So, our question for Starmer and Reeves is "are you willing to own this?"

If their answer is yes then they should resign immediately on the grounds they are unfit to hold office.

If their answer is quite properly no then they should cancel the policy in it's current format.

 

I've come from an afternoon in the pub 🍷and I've had a thought (pay attention at the back). Locally we are being overwhelmed by applications for solar panel farms on best agricultural land. Match that with withdrawal of the WFA. Where's the connection you may ask? Well if pensioners have their demise brought forward then they will have no further use of vegetables which of course they, alone, know how to cook, ergo no use of farmland so why not solar PV which can be used to power the microwaves for ready meals from the supermarkets? Which of course are acronyms for chemistry sets hence the reduction in human longevity. Welcome Aldous Huxley v2 

[Malc1]

A sup sup sup supper at the Local brings all sorts of amazing thoughts …… last night querying with my buddies at the pub over dinner …… all from 80 down to the youngster of 70 ….. all on private pensions too ……. Why can’t, or indeed it can, pop your brand new car purchase into your Pension Fund ????? get that to buy it 🤔

One of them has just yesterday bought himself a brand new VW EV and another a brand new Jaguar hybrid …. both yesterday ….. and neither had even thought about that possibility or nay ! 

BUT the     WINTER FUEL PAYMENT      did hugely concern us coz of the disastrous affect on those poorest OAPs in our Society …… not us for sure thankfully 

 

the AGE. UK. Petition  now on 

537,340     Signatures 

Malc 

 

[Boomer54]

[Kevin Williams]

£107,000+ since 2019...

[Boomer54]

4 hours ago, Kevin Williams said:

£107,000+ since 2019...

Hmm, sounds like my wife's clothing bill for the period. On balance perhaps I should go into politics. 🤗

[Malc1]

Stephen, you simply cannot do that, go into politics …… you’re not grossly inept nor a total fool ……. your DNA and education hasn’t set you up for a politikal karear …., you’re not at all suited 

NOR would you likely have kids young enuf needing “ quiet secluded 5 star “  space to take exams 

Your dear lady however might well indeed need rather more than a £20k a year clothing and shoe allowance …… you’d both have to go back to work I’m afraid unless there’s some sort of Mental Health issue that the NHS would be obliged to fund that clothing and shoe ( and slippers ) bill ……. We, the Public would happily make that excuse for you ok 👍👌🤣😂

Stephen for PM ……, we could start that Poll  🤔

Malc

btw

AGE. UK. Petition  now at 

537,814   Signatures 

WINTER FUEL PAYMENT 

 

Malc 

 

[Kevin Williams]

1 hour ago, Boomer54 said:

Hmm, sounds like my wife's clothing bill for the period. On balance perhaps I should go into politics. 🤗

And receive gifts from this guy...!!!!              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waheed_Alli,_Baron_Alli     Enough said...! 

[Mossypossy]

£2k on glasses (zero cost to taxpayer) vs how much of tax payers money Rishi spent on his helicopter flights?

How quickly people forget.

Just saying.

[Boomer54]

23 minutes ago, Mossypossy said:

£2k on glasses (zero cost to taxpayer) vs how much of tax payers money Rishi spent on his helicopter flights?

How quickly people forget.

Just saying.

Or perhaps both are not setting a good example of what we expect from our leadership?

[Mossypossy]

Agree. But some balance needed.

[wharfhouse]

MP Rosie Duffield quits Labour over Starmer 'hypocrisy' 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vkdy997rko

 

[Malc1]

Rosie Duffield is a very respected and long-standing extremely competent MP  for Canterbury Kent 

Malc 

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Mossypossy said:

£2k on glasses (zero cost to taxpayer) vs how much of tax payers money Rishi spent on his helicopter flights?

In 1986 Olof Palme, Sweden’s PM, was shot and killed while walking back from the cinema accompanied only by his wife, who was also shot.

In the intervening 36 years, I see no sign that political leaders have become any safer.  Or indeed, ordinary train passengers.  So I for one don’t begrudge the UK’s PM opting for a more secure form of transport than a commuter express.

The other thought that occurs is the idea that using a military helicopter is a misuse of tax payers’ money.  Tax payers are funding that helicopter whether it’s in flight or grounded.  They are paying for the flight and ground crew irrespective of what the aircraft is doing.

Indeed, keeping the aircraft and crew operational is arguably beneficial to both and secondary to the actual task.

Accepting free gifts of personal items, which they are sufficiently well paid to buy for themselves, offers no such security or operational advantages - especially when such gifts solicit benefits for the giver! 

And especially when the recipients have conspired to remove payments which, by their own earlier estimate, could result in 4000 deaths!

I only hope that Starmer’s gifted clothing includes fresh underwear.

I suspect he’s going to need it.

[Mossypossy]

Spin master. Respect.

By that logic he needs the VIP box at the footie then.

[Malc1]

and chopper flying might actually get one to an important meeting rather quicker and fresher ….. and indeed enable one to visit more important meetings quicker and better and be effective 

 

That is of course if one had the ability to do good works and a mindset not to beat up harmless and defenceless OAPs 

Malc 

[Mossypossy]

Yeah but some of them deserve it....

[Mossypossy]

The fuel allowance obvs

[Malc1]

538,025.  Signatures now

AGE. UK.  Petition 

WINTER FUEL PAYMENT 

 

Malc 

[Mr_Groundhog]

My fellow drivers:
Having read most posts in this thread, I can see three [main] things regularly cropping up:

1.  Inaccurate paradigms
2. False analogies
3. Amnesia

1. There isn't a "vault" with finite stacks of money. Money is created through inputting numbres on a glorified spreadsheet. In a country with a sovereign central bank (like the UK) so-called debt will always (by design), remain payable.
   The state destroys and creates money as per its needs, at the touch of a button. See how some things are never questioned and we never see an affordability discussion on them: For some stuff, money is always available & endless.  
   
   This artificial debate to keep us all bickering about what's payable and fiscally responsible is just a way to keep us from dreaming too big (a fair society with decent lives and good services & infrastructure, etc.) and demanding "too much" (for a few to keep hoarding ever-increasing amounts of wealth and power). 
    
2. The Tatcherite trap of the State & tax run as "a houselhold", which is just a lie. Fodder for journos and "influencers" who can't be bothered learning how their world actually works.
   Countries with currency sovereignty are issuers (and not users) of money. You can't run out of money when you're the only one who can create it... same way you can't run out of your own signature!
   
   The "deficit" of the state is the saving/gain of the private sector, but it isn't actually a "deficit" because in this ecosystem, my expenditure is someone else's gain. If a significant actor (i.e. the State) starts witholding, this drains the money flow, worsens inequality and stagnates the economy* because total expenditure equals total income.
   * inflationary episodes come as a result of supply bottlenecks and/or speculation (which is an artificial bottleneck), not money being issued by the States to cover society's basics.
    
3. Amnesia: I wasn't excited when this Labour party won (with much fewer votes than Corbyn, mind you) ...BUT do you actually see where the country is?? The last 14 years, most became worse-off, less healthy, less happy, less hopeful, angrier, more alone and frustrated... Less able to have a good life overall, with much more uncertainty. The UK is in tatters.
   
   The many years of austerity fundamentalism (i.e. kind welfare for the rich vs. dog-eat-dog capitalism for the rest) under Cameron-Clegg-Osborne actually killed thousands of people through lack of care, and lost us the best opportunity to modernise the country (money was super cheap). It will weigh us down for decades to come.
   How some seem willing to stay faithul to this bunch is simply beyond me.

Neoliberalism is the economic dogma of those who do not understand economics (because it's full of oversimplified analogies and easy fixes for complex logics). The much-revered Mises & Hayek never worked at an actual business for a day. Bird-brained Ayn Rand died collecting social security checks while writing against social care and the State.

@GMB gets it right, in pointing at how Varoufakis makes a very on-point diagnosis of the current context and trends. Recommended reading, along with an earier book: Adults in the Room.

[Boomer54]

Having read the statement issued by Rosie Duffield I have to say (differences apart) I have to accord her full respect for taking such a principled stand. Her statement pulls no punches and makes no attempt at political correctness. It is direct and unambiguously scorched earth in what her thoughts are about Starmer and his circle of influence. One sometimes forgets there are still some MP's like this in Parliament. Starmer of course is not such on any week that he sucked oxygen. Personal ambition and aggrandizement will always trump principle for him.

[Boomer54]

36 minutes ago, Mr_Groundhog said:

My fellow drivers:
Having read most posts in this thread, I can see three [main] things regularly cropping up:

1.  Inaccurate paradigms
2. False analogies
3. Amnesia

1. There isn't a "vault" with finite stacks of money. Money is created through inputting numbres on a glorified spreadsheet. In a country with a sovereign central bank (like the UK) so-called debt will always (by design), remain payable.
   The state destroys and creates money as per its needs, at the touch of a button. See how some things are never questioned and we never see an affordability discussion on them: For some stuff, money is always available & endless.  
   
   This artificial debate to keep us all bickering about what's payable and fiscally responsible is just a way to keep us from dreaming too big (a fair society with decent lives and good services & infrastructure, etc.) and demanding "too much" (for a few to keep hoarding ever-increasing amounts of wealth and power). 
    
2. The Tatcherite trap of the State & tax run as "a houselhold", which is just a lie. Fodder for journos and "influencers" who can't be bothered learning how their world actually works.
   Countries with currency sovereignty are issuers (and not users) of money. You can't run out of money when you're the only one who can create it... same way you can't run out of your own signature!
   
   The "deficit" of the state is the saving/gain of the private sector, but it isn't actually a "deficit" because in this ecosystem, my expenditure is someone else's gain. If a significant actor (i.e. the State) starts witholding, this drains the money flow, worsens inequality and stagnates the economy* because total expenditure equals total income.
   * inflationary episodes come as a result of supply bottlenecks and/or speculation (which is an artificial bottleneck), not money being issued by the States to cover society's basics.
    
3. Amnesia: I wasn't excited when this Labour party won (with much fewer votes than Corbyn, mind you) ...BUT do you actually see where the country is?? The last 14 years, most became worse-off, less healthy, less happy, less hopeful, angrier, more alone and frustrated... Less able to have a good life overall, with much more uncertainty. The UK is in tatters.
   
   The many years of austerity fundamentalism (i.e. kind welfare for the rich vs. dog-eat-dog capitalism for the rest) under Cameron-Clegg-Osborne actually killed thousands of people through lack of care, and lost us the best opportunity to modernise the country (money was super cheap). It will weigh us down for decades to come.
   How some seem willing to stay faithul to this bunch is simply beyond me.

Neoliberalism is the economic dogma of those who do not understand economics (because it's full of oversimplified analogies and easy fixes for complex logics). The much-revered Mises & Hayek never worked at an actual business for a day. Bird-brained Ayn Rand died collecting social security checks while writing against social care and the State.

@GMB gets it right, in pointing at how Varoufakis makes a very on-point diagnosis of the current context and trends. Recommended reading, along with an earier book: Adults in the Room.

You make some good economic points. One's which non economically minded people simply don't understand. That isn't meant to be patronising to those people. If you don't educate yourself on economics then you will be like a carpenter who never gained the basic joinery skills. That Thatcher statement was right on the money and still applies.

My only other comment is unfortunately "that bunch" and this current bunch are probably going to end up with the same result. I have not heard ,or seen anything to date that would lead me to believe differently although I will say the recent statement on the unsustainability of the NHS may give some degree of optimism in what is otherwise a bleak desert.

[Mossypossy]

All this Starmer bashing may eventually lead to Angela Rayner becoming PM.

Careful now!