Winter fuel payment

[LenT]

15 hours ago, Malc1 said:

The pompous and disgraceful freebie clothing scandal will haunt those in this Labour Govt and Labour Party for aeons ……  and all so blatant whilst so many OAPs ( and others ) find solace and survival at a Clothesbank …… and Foodbanks and upcoming necessary, this winter,   “

This morning’s blustering attempt at a defence by Angela Rayner on Laura Kuenssberg’s show was a further embarrassment.  A classic example of how - when you find yourself in a hole - it’s best to stop digging!

[LenT]

I admit that I may have come across as somewhat critical of the new Government’s cessation of the WFA payment to most Pensioners.

But in the interests of fairness, I should admit that both MrsT and myself are receiving increases to our State Pension on account of becoming eighty.

We’re currently deciding how to spend the extra 25p a week.  Any suggestions?

[First_Lexus]

32 minutes ago, LenT said:

This morning’s blustering attempt at a defence by Angela Rayner on Laura Kuenssberg’s show was a further embarrassment.  A classic example of how - when you find yourself in a hole - it’s best to stop digging!

I’ve used the word before on this thread, but from a Labour Government, and one that was so adamant they’d be ‘corruption free’ to dissolve into this after only 8-12 weeks in power is disappointing for so many people. Perhaps not a surprise to those of us who’ve been around for more years than we’d care to mention, but trust has certainly been broken for many voters who lent Labour their vote this time.

Jess Philips was no better with her ludicrous attempt at defending this debacle yesterday. She said she’d “…not received one message from a constituent…” about this scandal. John McDonnell on the radio this morning was pretty acerbic about that comment. Words to the effect, “…I’d never call a fellow MP a liar, but she must have very different constituents to me and other colleagues I’ve spoken with…” which was followed by the presenter saying, “…or perhaps her email is broken.” 😂

 

[Malc1]

9 minutes ago, LenT said:

I admit that I may have come across as somewhat critical of the new Government’s cessation of the WFA payment to most Pensioners.

But in the interests of fairness, I should admit that both MrsT and myself are receiving increases to our State Pension on account of becoming eighty.

We’re currently deciding how to spend the extra 25p a week.  Any suggestions?

If you spend it in an Iceland store on a Tuesday it’s worth 10% more ……… inflation busting 27.5p  🤞

Malc 

[First_Lexus]

11 minutes ago, LenT said:

We’re currently deciding how to spend the extra 25p a week.  Any suggestions?

^^ Labour Party membership for those who have retired is £2.88 pm so your £12 pa could discount it even further…😁

[LenT]

12 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

John McDonnell on the radio this morning was pretty acerbic about that comment. Words to the effect, “…I’d never call a fellow MP a liar, but she must have very different constituents to me and other colleagues I’ve spoken with…” which was followed by the presenter saying, “…or perhaps her email is broken.”

I never had much time for McDonnell when he was a Labour MP and attempting to defend the actions of the Labour Party.  But I find myself more in agreement now that he appears to be more inclined to attack the Party now that he is no longer an MP!

Just wondering which of us has shifted their position the most?

[First_Lexus]

31 minutes ago, LenT said:

I never had much time for McDonnell when he was a Labour MP and attempting to defend the actions of the Labour Party.  But I find myself more in agreement now that he appears to be more inclined to attack the Party now that he is no longer an MP!

Just wondering which of us has shifted their position the most?

I don’t agree politically with virtually anything John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn and those on that wing of the Labour Party believe in. Not now anyway. However, I do believe they are sincere, and generally honest, unlike ‘new’ Labour whether that be Blair, Miliband, Mandelson, or Starmer. 

As for ‘shifting position’ we all have a political journey. As a student I mainly studied Labour and the left, civil rights movements in South Africa, India and Rhodesia, as well as European Union treaties and systems (EC as was) and US political history post Civil War. Fair to say, like all students should be, that I was ‘right on.’ Free Nelson Mandela. Resist student loans. I briefly met Tony Benn, still a hero of mine, and also Barbara Castle completely by chance. She was delightful company on a train I happened to get onto, really lovely and very interesting to speak with. She was also - whether sincerely or not - seemingly very interested in my political views. Given my studies and her part in Labour history it was a bit like my equivalent of meeting a pop star!

My Father was an ‘old school’ Conservative, and had been a party doner. He was a member of what David Cameron called the ‘tie and blazer brigade.’ He told me I’d grow out of my left-wing phase, and he was right. He hated Margaret Thatcher, instead looking back to the golden age of titans like Macmillan, Anthony Eden and others.

Anyway, along with adult life, the world of work, a mortgage and all that jazz my politics shifted. I have always considered myself a traditional Liberal, and over the years I’ve voted Labour, Liberal, Alliance (remember that?!), Conservative, Green (yes, really) and even UKIP in specific circumstances. 

Where do I think I am now? Still a liberal, probably slightly right of centre on most things but left of centre on others. I want to live in a tolerant and inclusive society, and I value meritocracy in terms of opportunity. I’m happy to pay slightly more tax if - and only if - I believe that money will be properly and sensibly spent. I’m not holding my breath on that one tbh…

Anyway, that’s my political journey from awakening to now. Almost forty years of different opinions at different times. I think that’s how it should be.

[Phil xxkr]

44 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

I don’t agree politically with virtually anything John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn and those on that wing of the Labour Party believe in. Not now anyway. However, I do believe they are sincere, and generally honest, unlike ‘new’ Labour whether that be Blair, Miliband, Mandelson, or Starmer. 

As for ‘shifting position’ we all have a political journey. As a student I mainly studied Labour and the left, civil rights movements in South Africa, India and Rhodesia, as well as European Union treaties and systems (EC as was) and US political history post Civil War. Fair to say, like all students should be, that I was ‘right on.’ Free Nelson Mandela. Resist student loans. I briefly met Tony Benn, still a hero of mine, and also Barbara Castle completely by chance. She was delightful company on a train I happened to get onto, really lovely and very interesting to speak with. She was also - whether sincerely or not - seemingly very interested in my political views. Given my studies and her part in Labour history it was a bit like my equivalent of meeting a pop star!

My Father was an ‘old school’ Conservative, and had been a party doner. He was a member of what David Cameron called the ‘tie and blazer brigade.’ He told me I’d grow out of my left-wing phase, and he was right. He hated Margaret Thatcher, instead looking back to the golden age of titans like Macmillan, Anthony Eden and others.

Anyway, along with adult life, the world of work, a mortgage and all that jazz my politics shifted. I have always considered myself a traditional Liberal, and over the years I’ve voted Labour, Liberal, Alliance (remember that?!), Conservative, Green (yes, really) and even UKIP in specific circumstances. 

Where do I think I am now? Still a liberal, probably slightly right of centre on most things but left of centre on others. I want to live in a tolerant and inclusive society, and I value meritocracy in terms of opportunity. I’m happy to pay slightly more tax if - and only if - I believe that money will be properly and sensibly spent. I’m not holding my breath on that one tbh…

Anyway, that’s my political journey from awakening to now. Almost forty years of different opinions at different times. I think that’s how it should be.

I used to be indecisive but now there's a definite probability of a firm maybe that I can't make my mind up 😂

[Boomer54]

2 hours ago, GMB said:

 

Rwanda looks nice, can you recommend a good hotel?

Definitely, try The Boomer Boomerang. It suggests that you go their old and come back even older! No, seriously, you must try their Orangutan Massage parlour. It will certainly straighten out any kinks in your spine. It guarantees to remove all Arthritic pains mainly  because everythingelse hurts so much .

I think we may be onto something here.

1/2 ltr beer in Rwanda 57p !!

Dare not look at the temps given it is so close to the equator.

[Phil xxkr]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

I never had much time for McDonnell when he was a Labour MP and attempting to defend the actions of the Labour Party.  But I find myself more in agreement now that he appears to be more inclined to attack the Party now that he is no longer an MP!

Just wondering which of us has shifted their position the most?

Very reminiscent of the Labour great Dennis Healey who savaged property speculators when Chancellor and introduced a top rate of income tax of 83%🤯. Yet in his will of nearly £3 million pounds (when 3 mn was a lot of money) £1.9 mn of that was his house!! He also had a damascene conversation it appears? 🤔🙂

[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, First_Lexus said:

I don’t agree politically with virtually anything John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn and those on that wing of the Labour Party believe in. Not now anyway. However, I do believe they are sincere, and generally honest, unlike ‘new’ Labour whether that be Blair, Miliband, Mandelson, or Starmer. 

As for ‘shifting position’ we all have a political journey. As a student I mainly studied Labour and the left, civil rights movements in South Africa, India and Rhodesia, as well as European Union treaties and systems (EC as was) and US political history post Civil War. Fair to say, like all students should be, that I was ‘right on.’ Free Nelson Mandela. Resist student loans. I briefly met Tony Benn, still a hero of mine, and also Barbara Castle completely by chance. She was delightful company on a train I happened to get onto, really lovely and very interesting to speak with. She was also - whether sincerely or not - seemingly very interested in my political views. Given my studies and her part in Labour history it was a bit like my equivalent of meeting a pop star!

My Father was an ‘old school’ Conservative, and had been a party doner. He was a member of what David Cameron called the ‘tie and blazer brigade.’ He told me I’d grow out of my left-wing phase, and he was right. He hated Margaret Thatcher, instead looking back to the golden age of titans like Macmillan, Anthony Eden and others.

Anyway, along with adult life, the world of work, a mortgage and all that jazz my politics shifted. I have always considered myself a traditional Liberal, and over the years I’ve voted Labour, Liberal, Alliance (remember that?!), Conservative, Green (yes, really) and even UKIP in specific circumstances. 

Where do I think I am now? Still a liberal, probably slightly right of centre on most things but left of centre on others. I want to live in a tolerant and inclusive society, and I value meritocracy in terms of opportunity. I’m happy to pay slightly more tax if - and only if - I believe that money will be properly and sensibly spent. I’m not holding my breath on that one tbh…

Anyway, that’s my political journey from awakening to now. Almost forty years of different opinions at different times. I think that’s how it should be.

Generally, though we like to think of ourselves has a bit unique, in the pathway described, you are following the usual lifestyle path. The ideals (or as I say cluelessness) of youth give way to the experience based views of adulthood. Those typically lead people down a path away from labour. Now whether that path is towards Conservative ,or Liberal is a bit of a moot point. Better to say you become more of a centrist recognising the behavioural needs of the individual together with the needs of a society who indeed can only be supported by the former.

[Malc1]

14 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

Definitely, try The Boomer Boomerang. It suggests that you go their old and come back even older! No, seriously, you must try their Orangutan Massage parlour. It will certainly straighten out any kinks in your spine. It guarantees to remove all Arthritic pains mainly  because everythingelse hurts so much .

I think we may be onto something here.

1/2 ltr beer in Rwanda 57p !!

Dare not look at the temps given it is so close to the equator.

I know a great on- line travel agency you can use to get your ticket ……. one way ???? 🤔 😂

Malc 

Absolutely no need there for your 

WINTER FUEL ALLOWANCE 

528,361. Signatures now 

Malc 

[LenT]

1 hour ago, First_Lexus said:

She ( Barbara Castle) was delightful company on a train I happened to get onto, really lovely and very interesting to speak with. She was also - whether sincerely or not - seemingly very interested in my political views. Given my studies and her part in Labour history it was a bit like my equivalent of meeting a pop star!

I’ve mentioned this before - so skip it if sounds familiar - but when I was doing ads for the Central Office of Information, I had long chats with a Civil Servant who had served both Barbara Castle and then Margaret Thatcher as Ministers.  

He said the comparison was fascinating.  

Castle was a pleasure to meet, interested in him and his family, praised his Presentations and he would leave meetings confident that he had sold his Proposal and action would soon follow.

But it rarely did!

Thatcher was very sparing with small talk and straight down to business, primed with questions having already mastered the briefing documents.  She’d examine every statement in detail, wouldn’t tolerate vagaries or assumptions and established firm time scales for amendments.

He dreaded their meetings.  However, what resulted was a much improved version of the original Proposal that more often than not was actually enacted.

 

[LenT]

53 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Very reminiscent of the Labour great Dennis Healey who savaged property speculators when Chancellor and introduced a top rate of income tax of 83%🤯. Yet in his will of nearly £3 million pounds (when 3 mn was a lot of money) £1.9 mn of that was his house!! He also had a damascene conversation it appears? 🤔🙂

As another insight on Denis Healey, MrsT was PA to a leading merchant banker who would invite a select group on various ‘freebies’.  One she organised was a salmon fishing event on Iceland which Healey - also a keen photographer- accepted with alacrity.  Apparently the verdict of the other guests was that Healey was boorish, offhand with the hotel staff and he turned out to be the only invitee who never bothered to send a note of thanks to his Host.

[B1RMA]

Just thought I'd add this.

 

[Malc1]

Politics People are no different to ordinary business people in that honesty and being believed is paramount to success ……… appealing to your customer base is essential and will determine your own success 

Veracity is Top Dog and pulling the wool over customers eyes just don’t work ……. and Businesses Fail …………

Politicians for some unfathomable reason think they’re above all this and their customers …. Us Public …… are stupid and accepting of rubbish …….. and the older we “ Us Public “ get the more wise we grow too ……. We have aged wisdom and understand utter political crap and nonsense flowing from their mouths 

WE. OAPs just know and simply won’t accept all this nonsense, vindictive beating us up, coz these Politicos think were that soft touch 

Hence the Petition is now at a formidable 

528,401 . Signatures to save the 

WINTER FUEL ALLOWANCE

 

Malc 

 

[Phil xxkr]

26 minutes ago, LenT said:

As another insight on Denis Healey, MrsT was PA to a leading merchant banker who would invite a select group on various ‘freebies’.  One she organised was a salmon fishing event on Iceland which Healey - also a keen photographer- accepted with alacrity.  Apparently the verdict of the other guests was that Healey was boorish, offhand with the hotel staff and he turned out to be the only invitee who never bothered to send a note of thanks to his Host.

Totally believable 😎 don't you know who I am? 

[The-Acre]

5 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Totally believable 😎 don't you know who I am? 

In his defence, maybe Dennis Healey missed the opportunity to thank anyone due to his forest like eyebrows obscuring his view!

[Phil xxkr]

53 minutes ago, The-Acre said:

In his defence, maybe Dennis Healey missed the opportunity to thank anyone due to his forest like eyebrows obscuring his view!

"in his defence"? As the longest serving Minister in that illustrious post I admire your pun 🙂

[The-Acre]

15 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

"in his defence"? As the longest serving Minister in that illustrious post I admire your pun 🙂

Very good, although there are very few politicians I really would defend! 

[steve2006]

11 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

I’ve used the word before on this thread, but from a Labour Government, and one that was so adamant they’d be ‘corruption free’ to dissolve into this after only 8-12 weeks in power is disappointing for so many people. Perhaps not a surprise to those of us who’ve been around for more years than we’d care to mention, but trust has certainly been broken for many voters who lent Labour their vote this time.

Jess Philips was no better with her ludicrous attempt at defending this debacle yesterday. She said she’d “…not received one message from a constituent…” about this scandal. John McDonnell on the radio this morning was pretty acerbic about that comment. Words to the effect, “…I’d never call a fellow MP a liar, but she must have very different constituents to me and other colleagues I’ve spoken with…” which was followed by the presenter saying, “…or perhaps her email is broken.” 😂

 

Now that is interesting as my mp stated “ This is not a decision I took lightly. I have listened to and read the opinions of hundreds of Amber Valley residents both in support of and against restoring this payment as a universal credit.”

I have written back asking for a percentage breakdown of those in support and against along with her claim that all labour mps backed the government when it is documented that 1 voted against the government and many more abstained.

Her claim that the state pension has risen by £900.00 last April with another £480 next April is also misleading and only applies to those in receipt of the new full pension. Those on a reduced pension due to insufficient qualifying years received only a percentage of those figures.

[Boomer54]

7 hours ago, steve2006 said:

Now that is interesting as my mp stated “ This is not a decision I took lightly. I have listened to and read the opinions of hundreds of Amber Valley residents both in support of and against restoring this payment as a universal credit.”

I have written back asking for a percentage breakdown of those in support and against along with her claim that all labour mps backed the government when it is documented that 1 voted against the government and many more abstained.

Her claim that the state pension has risen by £900.00 last April with another £480 next April is also misleading and only applies to those in receipt of the new full pension. Those on a reduced pension due to insufficient qualifying years received only a percentage of those figures.

The very fact that the state pension keeps being used has some form of defence of their action on the WFA is INFORMATIVE as to how they feel about the former. That is that this Triple Lock rise has been some form of superlative advancement for pensioners. I will not repeat my former post on this subject in full. Suffice to say it hardly restores the pre inflation position of pensioners.

Regarding their statement "for and against". If I were to hear that in court I would be heading for a perjury charge straightaway.

[Malc1]

I’m thinking it’s just a simple very transparent ploy to negate the payout value of the Triple Lock that each party promised to retain 

Very UNTRUSTWORTHY ……. and treating us as “ incompetents “  in not seeing thru’  this ridiculous jumble of misleading Labour Govt MP “ words by rote “ 

I never thought the day would come that I would be admiring much of what the TUC could be doing …… BUT this holding Starmer Reeves Rayner to personal account over this debacle is GOOD to try to 

RETAIN THE 

WINTER FUEL PAYMENT 

AGE. UK.  Petition now at 

528,713    Signature 

 

Malc 

 

[Kevin Williams]

 

[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

I’m thinking it’s just a simple very transparent ploy to negate the payout value of the Triple Lock that each party promised to retain 

Very UNTRUSTWORTHY ……. and treating us as “ incompetents “  in not seeing thru’  this ridiculous jumble of misleading Labour Govt MP “ words by rote “ 

I never thought the day would come that I would be admiring much of what the TUC could be doing …… BUT this holding Starmer Reeves Rayner to personal account over this debacle is GOOD to try to 

RETAIN THE 

WINTER FUEL PAYMENT 

AGE. UK.  Petition now at 

528,713    Signature 

 

Malc 

 

My only concern is that the TUC may have an underlying motive. That is, if Starmer suffers enough damage to be dislodged is there any chance that their perennial favourite Corbyn could yet arrive at the top via a backdoor opened by them?