Winter fuel payment

[Malc1]

AGE UK.  Petition  at 

346,504.  petition signatures just now 

Malc 

[Boomer54]

15 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Linas hi …….. just keep paying your due taxes like all other good citizens and all will be well ……… 

let’s remember our dear Chancellor of the Exchequer and her NHS is it ? employed hubby are indubitably paying their fair share of taxes on their joint income, slightly above that of a standard

OAP on some £218 a week

……… not sure how one equates their joint income of £450/500k per annum …… oh yes, about £10,218 a glorious food laden, well heated home ….. each week 😂

Oh how they must comprehend the need to live, eat and heat frugally, sparingly eh ! 

Again, I despair 🥵

Malc 

Aye, it's been tough. Just polishing up my old clogs to get up't moor so i can cut yon Peat for't fire this winter.

Tol' wife no more Christian Dior she 'll have to settle for Christian Poor like other OAP's. No more trips to London for her after I found the security plans she had drawn for the Burberry flagship. Poverty makes criminals out of best of us and I can't see her go to jail 'cos I still like her baking.

[Malc1]

Stephen, she’ll get a “ Get out of Jail Free “ card especially if she’s good at baking ……..  files into the buns …….. can you apply for her to be sent to a specific local prison so you’re far enuf away to visit ……. or not 🤩

Malc 

 

346,877. signatories now 👍

[Boomer54]

5 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Stephen, she’ll get a “ Get out of Jail Free “ card especially if she’s good at baking ……..  files into the buns …….. can you apply for her to be sent to a specific local prison so you’re far enuf away to visit ……. or not 🤩

Malc 

 

346,877. signatories now 👍

If I get her sent to one near you and you visit regularly be prepared to have to buy a new wardrobe  as your waistline expands. People used to ask me 'Stephen why do you run more miles a week than Mo Farah?). I used to say 'You are looking at the proverbial rat on the wheel'. To quote Shakespeare "To Run ,or not to Eat that is the question"

[Linas.P]

38 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Stephen, she’ll get a “ Get out of Jail Free “ card especially if she’s good at baking ……..  files into the buns …….. can you apply for her to be sent to a specific local prison so you’re far enuf away to visit ……. or not 🤩

Malc 

 

346,877. signatories now 👍

Just quick question? What do you expect from petition? They will discuss it and what then? I hope you know that petitions literally doesn't mean anything?

If they would then we wouldn't be outside of EU.

[Boomer54]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Just quick question? What do you expect from petition? They will discuss it and what then? I hope you know that petitions literally doesn't mean anything?

If they would then we wouldn't be outside of EU.

Personally, I expect to be compensated for the mental stress they have caused. A few weeks in some distant sunny place would do it. Oops, for clarity, not Syria, Lebanon, Palestine etc etc.

[Malc1]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

What do you expect from petition?

A Revolution, by  A  Revulsion of MPs .................... understanding or nay the views of some 10 million OAPs represented by over a third of a million votes from that august institution called

AGE UK    Petition at   347, 351   just now 

 

Malc

[Boomer54]

7 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Just quick question? What do you expect from petition? They will discuss it and what then? I hope you know that petitions literally doesn't mean anything?

If they would then we wouldn't be outside of EU.

Actually ,if it does no more than fire a shot across Ms Reeves ample bows as a warning against other policies that are aimed specifically at OAP's then it would have served a purpose. Politics are all about the number of votes and it could be useful to remind them that that huge majority they got this time could so  easily be taken away next time. Arguments about 'right' and 'wrong' for the interests of the nation I will leave to others given they have not managed to get this right in my life time.

[Lmafudd]

Linas, your response is completely in line with your other posts/opinions imho. I've butted heads with you before as apparently you think the UX isn't a Lexus at all! Enough said and I await the 'broadside'. Thing is one has to listen and sometimes accept there may be another valid side when in open discussion.

£1000 is not much. Maybe if all oaps lived in their own paid-for house that was well insulated and 'cheap' to run then they can scrape by but it would be more akin to surviving than thriving. The 'Living Wage' is set at £11.44 per hour and this is the level that various Quangos and Government bodies have identified as the minimum a person requires to live in the UK, not a family or a couple but a singleton. For a 37 hour week (we oldies actually worked far longer but I appreciate that the younger folk have far more stuff to do in their leisure time) x 52 weeks the total wage would be £22,010 if, (big if), the wage earner lost 25% of that wage to stoppages then the take home would be £16500.00 pa. At that level of income a family would probably be considered favorably for assistance whereas a retired person on the full state pension plus a miserly private pension will not qualify for Pension Credits - and please do not say that the state pension isn't taxed, it is as it added in to one's total income. At least 8 million of the 10 Million on pensions will not qualify for benefits and all those are not living the life of riley I assure you.

Just to clarify. I retired a year early and have lived on my savings and private pensions. I, like many, many, have never claimed one single cent of state aid during my 66 years and could have been considered a fairly well paid individual but not highly paid during my 50 years of work having left school at 15. I am nothing special. There will be millions of older people who will tell you the same story, some will have earned less, some will have earned more but on average we will be very similar. We have lived through 3 day weeks, union LED strikes that emptied shops and times when power was cut for several days at a time. We have seen our Country become a laughing stock, a financial basket case, an industrial war zone and have endured politically more than the current generations could imagine - I hope. No one is saying that immigration is always bad but uncontrolled it will ultimately ruin every society that follows that path - history tells us this.

Thanks for reading.

[Lmafudd]

On 8/8/2024 at 5:28 PM, DavidCM said:

Is there any truth on the rumor she is changing her name to Diane Abacus?

Yes, you can count on that!

[Phil xxkr]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Just quick question? What do you expect from petition? They will discuss it and what then? I hope you know that petitions literally doesn't mean anything?

If they would then we wouldn't be outside of EU.

We? Who exactly are we? 

[Malc1]

Now at

AGE UK        Petition 

349,923.  👍

Malc 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

We? Who exactly are we? 

UK? 

That was from perspective of - if 340k signatures counts for shaite, then there were 6 million, 11 million and several other massive votes to discuss options of not leaving EU, or leaving in better terms. 

Not that I say everyone have to support being part of EU (...but people that have some intelligence do), I am just saying that petitions are meaningless. If 6 million signatures does not count, then 300k signature... or whatever it may end-up being does not count either.

3 hours ago, Lmafudd said:

Linas, your response is completely in line with your other posts/opinions imho. I've butted heads with you before as apparently you think the UX isn't a Lexus at all! Enough said and I await the 'broadside'. Thing is one has to listen and sometimes accept there may be another valid side when in open discussion.

£1000 is not much. Maybe if all oaps lived in their own paid-for house that was well insulated and 'cheap' to run then they can scrape by but it would be more akin to surviving than thriving. The 'Living Wage' is set at £11.44 per hour and this is the level that various Quangos and Government bodies have identified as the minimum a person requires to live in the UK, not a family or a couple but a singleton. For a 37 hour week (we oldies actually worked far longer but I appreciate that the younger folk have far more stuff to do in their leisure time) x 52 weeks the total wage would be £22,010 if, (big if), the wage earner lost 25% of that wage to stoppages then the take home would be £16500.00 pa. At that level of income a family would probably be considered favorably for assistance whereas a retired person on the full state pension plus a miserly private pension will not qualify for Pension Credits - and please do not say that the state pension isn't taxed, it is as it added in to one's total income. At least 8 million of the 10 Million on pensions will not qualify for benefits and all those are not living the life of riley I assure you.

Just to clarify. I retired a year early and have lived on my savings and private pensions. I, like many, many, have never claimed one single cent of state aid during my 66 years and could have been considered a fairly well paid individual but not highly paid during my 50 years of work having left school at 15. I am nothing special. There will be millions of older people who will tell you the same story, some will have earned less, some will have earned more but on average we will be very similar. We have lived through 3 day weeks, union led strikes that emptied shops and times when power was cut for several days at a time. We have seen our Country become a laughing stock, a financial basket case, an industrial war zone and have endured politically more than the current generations could imagine - I hope. No one is saying that immigration is always bad but uncontrolled it will ultimately ruin every society that follows that path - history tells us this.

Thanks for reading.

Clearly you don't understand the meaning of "gigwork" and "zero-hour" contracts. The problem is not how much per hour one earns, but how many hours to work one gets... you just said "we worked longer", many people would like to work longer, but they are not given the "hours", they get 3 days a week and 4 hours each day and in a month earn £549. Because in UK the minimum wage is decided not per month like in all other countries (that have minimum wage), but per hour... nobody cares if company calls you for work for 12 hours a week.

Even if we assume that everyone gets nice stable 37.5h per week, working 7.5h a day (which is not that common) and earn 16500pa (£1375 month), then let's see how much is left for them to "live on". Back when I was earning £900, the rent was £500 for a room, this was 2012. Now that same room would cost more like £800-900. Then let's take transport away traveling once a day, 3 days a week that is another £120, and what is left for living is £375... compared like for like with £1000 somebody get's for being old and having paid taxes and receiving state pension. I just can't see what you find unfair here. Also, having and paying off real estate became 8 times harder now, so if you have issue with pensioners that don't have their own homes than thing about the future of current generation... it will be train crash. There are many things that are unfair living in UK, pensions and WFP is really least serious of them.

Regarding emigration, as I said - the benefit of it and handling of it is debatable, I am not saying it is always well managed. But even the term "uncontrollable" is completely made-up, government can mostly control it, not 100%, but say 90%, they can stop Non-European Migrants overnight, they always could stop European Migrants, even when we were in EU, it was a lie that being in EU prevents government from controlling immigration. Germany and France had put limits and enforced them, yet they are within EU. What I am saying - the numbers of immigration you seeing are DESIRIABLE by government, they want that level of migration. They have to call it "uncontrollable" and blame immigrants for everything, but they are the ones with the keys and the ones standing by the open door and telling everyone to get it, then they turn around and shout "look how many people came in!". By the way 99% of the blame is on previous government, I am not saying new one will change anything, but clearly it is too early to blame them. Majority of immigration happened between 2016 and 2022, from 2020 we only seen trend of educated and better off immigrants, the most desirable ones, people who create most economic activity starting to leave. So that was one trend that seen negative migration from EU, but it was dwarfed by migration outside of EU (something like 200k net negative to EU and 800k net positive from outside). 

Again - it does not mean I support it, or that it can't be improved, I am simply saying - it will remain as it is, because "secretly" government wants it do be this way. 

[Malc1]

Fear not on illegal immigration Linas …….. Yvette Cooper and her cohort of 100 new Border Force will go to France and talk robustly with this “ criminal gangs “ element that evade the French authorities in France 

our new Govt will of course solve this problem, it’s inevitable, as night follows day 🤞

 

Everyone should have masses of confidence in our new Govt ……. after all, it’s full of very very clever people in tune with the UK population 👍👌 …….

especially our 11.4 million OAPs 

 

Now then, the 

AGE UK.    Petition is this morning at 

351,590  👍👏👏

Malc 

 

[Boomer54]

7 hours ago, Linas.P said:

UK? 

That was from perspective of - if 340k signatures counts for shaite, then there were 6 million, 11 million and several other massive votes to discuss options of not leaving EU, or leaving in better terms. 

Not that I say everyone have to support being part of EU (...but people that have some intelligence do), I am just saying that petitions are meaningless. If 6 million signatures does not count, then 300k signature... or whatever it may end-up being does not count either.

Clearly you don't understand the meaning of "gigwork" and "zero-hour" contracts. The problem is not how much per hour one earns, but how many hours to work one gets... you just said "we worked longer", many people would like to work longer, but they are not given the "hours", they get 3 days a week and 4 hours each day and in a month earn £549. Because in UK the minimum wage is decided not per month like in all other countries (that have minimum wage), but per hour... nobody cares if company calls you for work for 12 hours a week.

Even if we assume that everyone gets nice stable 37.5h per week, working 7.5h a day (which is not that common) and earn 16500pa (£1375 month), then let's see how much is left for them to "live on". Back when I was earning £900, the rent was £500 for a room, this was 2012. Now that same room would cost more like £800-900. Then let's take transport away traveling once a day, 3 days a week that is another £120, and what is left for living is £375... compared like for like with £1000 somebody get's for being old and having paid taxes and receiving state pension. I just can't see what you find unfair here. Also, having and paying off real estate became 8 times harder now, so if you have issue with pensioners that don't have their own homes than thing about the future of current generation... it will be train crash. There are many things that are unfair living in UK, pensions and WFP is really least serious of them.

Regarding emigration, as I said - the benefit of it and handling of it is debatable, I am not saying it is always well managed. But even the term "uncontrollable" is completely made-up, government can mostly control it, not 100%, but say 90%, they can stop Non-European Migrants overnight, they always could stop European Migrants, even when we were in EU, it was a lie that being in EU prevents government from controlling immigration. Germany and France had put limits and enforced them, yet they are within EU. What I am saying - the numbers of immigration you seeing are DESIRIABLE by government, they want that level of migration. They have to call it "uncontrollable" and blame immigrants for everything, but they are the ones with the keys and the ones standing by the open door and telling everyone to get it, then they turn around and shout "look how many people came in!". By the way 99% of the blame is on previous government, I am not saying new one will change anything, but clearly it is too early to blame them. Majority of immigration happened between 2016 and 2022, from 2020 we only seen trend of educated and better off immigrants, the most desirable ones, people who create most economic activity starting to leave. So that was one trend that seen negative migration from EU, but it was dwarfed by migration outside of EU (something like 200k net negative to EU and 800k net positive from outside). 

Again - it does not mean I support it, or that it can't be improved, I am simply saying - it will remain as it is, because "secretly" government wants it do be this way. 

Immigration is an aside to the topic, but if you really want the hard numbers Panorama did a very good program not that long ago. Post 2016 immigration has indeed multiplied. Dissecting it the numbers showed overwhelmingly that two sectors were responsible. First, health/social care and second was higher education where the numbers of international students went beserk. The base issue of course being dramatically moved by the fact that both sectors showed each brought dependents with them. Fast leap forward to a change in govt policy denying students the ability to bring dependents and of course for every action a reaction with International student applications falling dramatically. Of 1.6 million immigrants approx 30k were identified as being associated with illegal immigrants crossing the channel. Brexit is really a partially different issue, but it is inarguable that our govts (of both parties) mislead the voters on this issue.

The reality is we need some immigration to at least offset our aging population. Our problem is we don't control that immigration very well and indeed Brexit was a very blunt tool which was abused anyway. No doubt the higher education sector boomed off the inflow of international fees, but the offset is additional pressures on already scarce resources like housing and healthcare etc.

I have said it before ,but I will repeat it. policy is always about choice ! You will struggle to find policies that do not bestow privilege/advantage on some at a cost to others. The question really is as usual who benefits and who pays? If you trust our politicians to get this right for you then you clearly have not been looking at the trend in living standards in the Uk over the last 70 years or so. We can do better than this, but not with our current system of electoral process.

I would ask you to at least think about the law of large numbers when it comes to making large scale policy changes.

[Boomer54]

18 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Fear not on illegal immigration Linas …….. Yvette Cooper and her cohort of 100 new Border Force will go to France and talk robustly with this “ criminal gangs “ element that evade the French authorities in France 

our new Govt will of course solve this problem, it’s inevitable, as night follows day 🤞

 

Everyone should have masses of confidence in our new Govt ……. after all, it’s full of very very clever people in tune with the UK population 👍👌 …….

especially our 11.4 million OAPs 

 

Now then, the 

AGE UK.    Petition is this morning at 

351,590  👍👏👏

Malc 

 

Actually Malc, illegal immigration is a political shellgame and nothing more and judging from your comments you have been shilled. 30k illegal immigrants in 1.6 million immigrants. Weighed against the pressures brought by large scale immigration this is irrelevant. However, if you and many others are focused on that 'pea' then you are not at the same time looking at where the real 'pea' is being hidden.

[Malc1]

3 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

Actually Malc, illegal immigration is a political shellgame and nothing more and judging from your comments you have been shilled. 30k illegal immigrants in 1.6 million immigrants. Weighed against the pressures brought by large scale immigration this is irrelevant. However, if you and many others are focused on that 'pea' then you are not at the same time looking at where the real 'pea' is being hidden.

Oh I know very little about the immigration Q  and find the discussions rather pointless and expect we’re being fed a loada cobblers by the news broadcasts ……… 

NOW …… back on track 

the AGE UK.  Petition is at 

 

351,949      up from 20 mins back 

Malc 

[Malc1]

Now at

352,845.     and growing 👍

Malc 

[Malc1]

4 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Now at

352,845.     and growing 👍

Malc 

Just this minute it’s at

356,055   Petition Signatories 

 

Malc 

 

[Malc1]

Now at

358,205  on the AGE UK.  Petition 

I yesterday wrote a chaser type letter to my local Labour MP asking for his update on this issue 

He’s a new Labour MP just voted in after our local Conservative ( retiring MP ) had lost after some 20 odd years ……. a “Man of the People” imho

He had much affinity with his constituents I felt …… 

I have yet to have any useful rapport with the new Labour MP ……. but I’m trying hard 

Malc 

[fourbanks]

18 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Now at

358,205  on the AGE UK.  Petition 

I yesterday wrote a chaser type letter to my local Labour MP asking for his update on this issue 

He’s a new Labour MP just voted in after our local Conservative ( retiring MP ) had lost after some 20 odd years ……. a “Man of the People” imho

He had much affinity with his constituents I felt …… 

I have yet to have any useful rapport with the new Labour MP ……. but I’m trying hard 

Malc 

You're wasting your time, malcombe. If he's anything like sir Keir, who just flip-flops, then nothing will change. Get over it and move on 

[Malc1]

14 minutes ago, fourbanks said:

You're wasting your time, malcombe. If he's anything like sir Keir, who just flip-flops, then nothing will change. Get over it and move on 

I’m afraid that the lives and early deaths of a segment of this nations 11.4 million OAPs need people of thought and concern to try to move this into national. “ mainstream concern “ 

AGE UK have thankfully taken on this baton and deserve all the support to bring these politicians to account …… and to take responsibility for the national harm that now bears their name directly 

I know nowt about, nor concern myself with political shades of red or blue BUT I do know that this blunt cancellation of the 

WINTER FUEL ALLOWANCE 

will undoubtedly cause a ( preventable ) number of OAP premature deaths ……. at the hands of this Govt 

 

I shall not, indeed cannot simply “ get over it and move on  “

Malc 

[fourbanks]

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

I’m afraid that the lives and early deaths of a segment of this nations 11.4 million OAPs need people of thought and concern to try to move this into national. “ mainstream concern “ 

AGE UK have thankfully taken on this baton and deserve all the support to bring these politicians to account …… and to take responsibility for the national harm that now bears their name directly 

I know nowt about, nor concern myself with political shades of red or blue BUT I do know that this blunt cancellation of the 

WINTER FUEL ALLOWANCE 

will undoubtedly cause a ( preventable ) number of OAP premature deaths ……. at the hands of this Govt 

 

I shall not, indeed cannot simply “ get over it and move on  “

Malc 

malcombe there is a website on Facebook remember the dead that iv'e been watching for 14 years of all the deaths of the sick and disabled and despite many thousands nothing has happened of note to stop it. 

https://www.facebook.com/ribbonsforwelfare

as I say, people reporting the deaths have been a waste of time, sad but true 

[Lmafudd]

First They Came by Pastor Martin Niemöller

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

 

 

Need I say more?

[Malc1]

Hahahaha …… the Grim Reaper came for me a couple of years back and I swerved that scythe heading my way ……… my cancer nearly sent me upstairs….. or down …… and like many here having experienced, and experiencing similar I’m not keen to see Govt caused and inspired unnecessary deaths of a tranche of OAPs 

I have zero doubt that this Govt WILL cause the premature deaths of many OAPs this winter by consciously and knowingly, purposefully withdrawing this 

WINTER FUEL PAYMENT 

361,448.

signed the AGE. UK  Petition til now 

Malc