Winter fuel payment

[Malc1]

But there aren’t very many working in the NHS nor private health care that would benefit from the ……..

Winter Fuel Allowance 

Malc 

[NemesisUK]

[GMB]

17 hours ago, Planning ahead said:

We estimated she was spending in excess of £2000 a year on coke

Yes, it's a big problem once they get on the hard stuff.

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

Totally Agree with Your Comments.....!!!! I Think Personally ALL pensioners should get The WFA Irrespective Of Income..Will They apply The same Ruling to Disability benefits For whom Many People Rely on And where does it stop There ? I feel sorry for the Small Business man Or Woman who Is solely dependent on Local Trading dynamics..The likes of amazon are forcing them out of business Whilst at the same time depriving the country Out Of Tax revenue Which ultimately affects inflation and the Economy....Continuity and Change are a Social Science fact But If More money is not Injected into The NHS It won,t be on its Knees It will be Flat on its Back...Just my opinion of course..!!!

[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, RONNIE W HODGEKINSON said:

Totally Agree with Your Comments.....!!!! I Think Personally ALL pensioners should get The WFA Irrespective Of Income..Will They apply The same Ruling to Disability benefits For whom Many People Rely on And where does it stop There ? I feel sorry for the Small Business man Or Woman who Is solely dependent on Local Trading dynamics..The likes of Amazon are forcing them out of business Whilst at the same time depriving the country Out Of Tax revenue Which ultimately affects inflation and the Economy....Continuity and Change are a Social Science fact But If More money is not Injected into The NHS It won,t be on its Knees It will be Flat on its Back...Just my opinion of course..!!!

Unfortunately, the NHS is beyond repair by anybody. In it's current format it cannot possibly succeed either for it's staff , nor for it's patients. The whole idea of 'free' at point of supply when coupled with the advances in medical care available coupled with an aging population is doomed to fail. There is not, nor ever will be enough money raiseable through tax channels to get that job done.

First you have to deal with the hopeless situation of ever increasing demand and reduce it by putting private costs in at various points of supply which will at least go some way towards stopping abuse of the system. The moneys raised from that goes towards increasing the resources of the supply side. With enough data statistical modellers could very well identify where the balancing range is. To pretend this is not the only approach is simply silly. Tax payers have made it abundantly clear they see no future in a collective tax rise for this issue and rightly so. That approach does nothing to stop abuse and system failure.

Sorry to rain on the publics parade with the NHS, but with all best intentions it stopped being 'good' quite sometime back. Today it's just a bureaucratic nightmare being abused by too many people who either use it ,or work for it. Both groups need the big stick approach. Which of course means it won't get done in a world where everyone seems to be determined to be habitually nice to each other regardless of circumstance. For data on abuse for example take a look at 'sick rate' data. Appalling. Take a look at missed appointments. Appalling. Good' patients and 'good' staff deserve better. "Good" in this sense means patients with real need and real social responsibility and staff with real work ethic. 

Well, I certainly feel better after that.  🤨

[fourbanks]

My daughter had been working in the Westminster bubble for 5 years, having left university with a top degree. She found it a very toxic environment with a complete lack of respect and integrity, so much so she had to quit not only her job but the country. I am currently retired from the establishment and have observed that politics is highly toxic. Looking back, I think it was best for her to have done it and found it toxic, instead of living your life thinking if only.

[Phil xxkr]

6 hours ago, RONNIE W HODGEKINSON said:

Totally Agree with Your Comments.....!!!! I Think Personally ALL pensioners should get The WFA Irrespective Of Income..Will They apply The same Ruling to Disability benefits For whom Many People Rely on And where does it stop There ? I feel sorry for the Small Business man Or Woman who Is solely dependent on Local Trading dynamics..The likes of Amazon are forcing them out of business Whilst at the same time depriving the country Out Of Tax revenue Which ultimately affects inflation and the Economy....Continuity and Change are a Social Science fact But If More money is not Injected into The NHS It won,t be on its Knees It will be Flat on its Back...Just my opinion of course..!!!

In place of /in addition too why I we funding the Mobility scheme that costs Billions? A scheme that allows for a Lexus or Range Rover? 🤔

[PaulWhitt20]

Who remembers the blue Invacars?

 

 

[Poundy]

8 minutes ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Who remembers the blue Invacars?

 

 

One to forget lol!

[Tickedon]

2 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

In place of /in addition too why I we funding the Mobility scheme that costs Billions? A scheme that allows for a Lexus or Range Rover? 🤔

For Motability, recipients trade in getting a cash benefit for a private vehicle. It doesn’t cost the government or taxpayers more (unless you argue the favourable VAT treatment is a cost). Car companies negotiate with Motability to get their vehicles in the scheme - Motability are the UK’s largest fleet operator - and have to offer discounts effectively in exchange for volume. Recipients will pay a larger deposit to get more expensive vehicles (typically).

There are elements to criticise - the huge reserves and some high executive pay - but personally I think the scheme is a great example of meeting a need without needing huge government subsidies.

[Malc1]

Motability Scheme does greatly benefit many OAPs too but has no bearing on the BLUNT cancellation of the  ……..

Winter Fuel Payment  ……..

 

that some 10 MILLION OAPs will summarily lose 

This needs to be quickly addressed by those that have the ability to do so PLEASE ……. and not saying this lightly …… many OAPs will likely unnecessarily die this winter from this draconian Govt step in the wrong direction 

Malc 

[Phil xxkr]

54 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Motability Scheme does greatly benefit many OAPs too but has no bearing on the BLUNT cancellation of the  ……..

Winter Fuel Payment  ……..

 

that some 10 MILLION OAPs will summarily lose 

This needs to be quickly addressed by those that have the ability to do so PLEASE ……. and not saying this lightly …… many OAPs will likely unnecessarily die this winter from this draconian Govt step in the wrong direction 

Malc 

Malc motability scheme with few exceptions only applies to under 65's

[Phil xxkr]

13 hours ago, Tickedon said:

For Motability, recipients trade in getting a cash benefit for a private vehicle. It doesn’t cost the government or taxpayers more (unless you argue the favourable VAT treatment is a cost). Car companies negotiate with Motability to get their vehicles in the scheme - Motability are the UK’s largest fleet operator - and have to offer discounts effectively in exchange for volume. Recipients will pay a larger deposit to get more expensive vehicles (typically).

There are elements to criticise - the huge reserves and some high executive pay - but personally I think the scheme is a great example of meeting a need without needing huge government subsidies.

Thank you Al, but just take a minute to look at the underlying numbers. As of 2021 and paid for by UK taxpayers - the average staff salary is 64k,twice the UK average with the highest being 7 figures. If you are in receipt of the highest allowance, £75 per week you can get a brand new Jeep SUV inc maintenance, breakdown, tyres and insurance at no cost to you but not so for the average taxpayer who can only dream of such an arrangement. The scheme makes £520 million in profit yet pays no tax, what other business that turns over £4bn can say that? Lots more interesting numbers and information in their annual accounts. 👍

[Poundy]

[Tickedon]

12 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Thank you Al, but just take a minute to look at the underlying numbers. As of 2021 and paid for by UK taxpayers - the average staff salary is 64k,twice the UK average with the highest being 7 figures. If you are in receipt of the highest allowance, £75 per week you can get a brand new Jeep SUV inc maintenance, breakdown, tyres and insurance at no cost to you but not so for the average taxpayer who can only dream of such an arrangement. The scheme makes £520 million in profit yet pays no tax, what other business that turns over £4bn can say that? Lots more interesting numbers and information in their annual accounts. 👍

They aren’t paid by taxpayers though, they are paid by individuals in receipt of benefits choosing to purchase a service from them, the same as those individuals could choose to buy anything else with their benefits payment . Motability Operations is owned by four banks (Barclays, Lloyds Banking Group, HSBC and NatWest Group) and has the contract with the Motability charity to run the leasing scheme. The government only provides funding for specialised or wheelchair vehicle adaption grants

As I said, the fact they can take a relatively small weekly allowance - plus a voluntary up front fee depending on vehicle selected - and run this entire operation from it (without taxpayer cash supporting the leasing element) is a brilliant example and it’s a shame we can’t duplicate its success in other areas.

[Tickedon]

1 hour ago, Phil xxkr said:

The scheme makes £520 million in profit yet pays no tax, what other business that turns over £4bn can say that? Lots more interesting numbers and information in their annual accounts. 👍

Oh, and the accounts show they do pay tax:

[Kevin Williams]

My wife has had MS for probably 35 years. 

When I bought our latest WAV for taking her out. 

I looked at Motability. 

When she reached pension age, her Mobility Part of PIP, stopped being awarded…

I bought the VW Caddy…!

Fortunately, the ramp is wide enough for putting my Recumbent Trike in the back…!

PIP_Mobility Part....pdf

[Linas.P]

On 8/3/2024 at 7:38 AM, Tickedon said:

They benefit from it with massive earnings potential over their career, which as consultants gets them into the top 5% of UK earners, and an NHS pension which is pretty much the most generous public sector pension scheme in the country. 

They can also - as has been pointed out - decide to run off to the USA or Australia, having had us pay for their training, and thus we don’t benefit.

If Doctors want USA style pay, they should stump up and pay for their own training (as they would in the USA, $40-60k per year in costs). 

Okey, let's think about it hypothetically...

1. You get into hospital and either there are no junior doctors or there are junior doctors, but they have not got their 200k training (also it is debatable that their training is worth that)... and you die.

or

2. You get into hospital and there are junior doctors who are trained, but get literal peanuts instead of salary... and you survive.

WHO benefits from this? Doctors who earn peanuts or you?

What is beneficial in that training for the person getting it if not the salary? Being trained to do job well is not a benefit if that job does not pay well. It is benefit to the society - sure... but what is benefit for them? 

Look - I 100% agree, NHS is completely broken, whomever we should blame is not relevant at this point, but I hope we both agree that system does not work, it does not work for society (waiting times) it does not work for doctors (shaite pay). It needs fixing, but it is not the fault on junior doctors... also - why the hell some stupid footballer is earning £46 million a year for kicking stupid ball, but people who actually matter, like doctors and teachers, and nurses and, fire fighters gets crumbs? We can argue that as a society we are rotten from the core, our values are rotten, not you specifically, but there is more fundamental problem when we can't even pay decent salary for a doctor and 200k training is apparently an issue, but some useless ball kicking brain dead kid gets more money per hour, than the entire doctor training costs...

And here I am not trying to imply that I know the solution, or that solution is obvious, I just see the problem and also it is strange that from all wrong in the society the doctor training was the thing which you thought was not fair, despite the fact that they don't even personally benefit from it... unless they quite and go contracting or emigrate (which every sane person MUST do). 

[Malc1]

Winter Fuel Payment 

weird but telling 🤔

My partner has just advised me that Rachel Reeves as Chancellor and her husband/ partner who works for the NHS in something of a senior role ……. enjoy a joint State paid annual income of @ £ 450/500k   👏

The incredulity of their comprehending the OAPs who NEED that Winter Fuel Payment is astonishing  🤫

Malc 

[Tickedon]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Okey, let's think about it hypothetically...

1. You get into hospital and either there are no junior doctors or there are junior doctors, but they have not got their 200k training (also it is debatable that their training is worth that)... and you die.

or

2. You get into hospital and there are junior doctors who are trained, but get literal peanuts instead of salary... and you survive.

WHO benefits from this? Doctors who earn peanuts or you?

 

You’re missing my point.

Doctors in England graduate with £40-50k in student debt, and have another £100-150k of training costs paid for by taxpayers, with an initial salary in the £30ks before it increases to put them in the * top 5% of UK earners *.

Doctors in USA during residency earn around $65k (actually very low by USA standards) but have approximately $200k in student debt to repay. 

My point is that doctors and others who point to higher salaries elsewhere are not comparing like with like. If they want a USA style starting salary, they should also - like in the USA - take on their own training costs.

Also, I’m sorry, but clearly doctors do benefit from their training as they are some of the most well paid employees in the UK. The NHS pension scheme is also the most generous of all public sector pensions (more generous than the rest of the civil service and local government). 

[Linas.P]

12 minutes ago, Tickedon said:

You’re missing my point.

Doctors in England graduate with £40-50k in student debt, and have another £100-150k of training costs paid for by taxpayers, with an initial salary in the £30ks before it increases to put them in the * top 5% of UK earners *.

Doctors in USA during residency earn around $65k (actually very low by USA standards) but have approximately $200k in student debt to repay. 

My point is that doctors and others who point to higher salaries elsewhere are not comparing like with like. If they want a USA style starting salary, they should also - like in the USA - take on their own training costs.

Also, I’m sorry, but clearly doctors do benefit from their training as they are some of the most well paid employees in the UK. The NHS pension scheme is also the most generous of all public sector pensions (more generous than the rest of the civil service and local government). 

I can't comment on pension... honestly don't consider it relevant.

To simplify this discussion - do we agree that the only benefit of any training is to earn more? So if one does not earn more, then where is the benefit?

The pay in UK is not good - that is fact. You are correct in a way that doctors can train-up with subsidies, but then instead of working for NHS they can go private or emigrate (which they absolutelly should do), but then also pension becomes irrelevant, because to qualify one has to work for NHS. Anyway it is little bit naive to believe that doctors will sacrifice themselves just because they got some training subsidy, reality is that UK is short on doctors, that is why they get subsidy for studies, goverment trying to upskill the people. The mistake here is that after "upskilling" they lose them, because the only way to keep "skilled" person is to pay them in line with their expertise. So in UK they did first step - they upskilled some people, but they failed on second step to pay the "skilled" people right to keep them working. This is applicable to anyone, not just doctors - the more "trained" somebody is, the more they have to be paid.. that their training costed 200k, there is no direct benefit for them, until they earn the salary. 

Also top 5%, that basically doesn't mean anything, anyone earning £80k is in 5 percentile... with £80k you can't even buy 1 bed flat (I just calculating roughly - average flat in London is like £400k, 20% deposit is 80k and with 80k salary you would boreally get 400k mortgage) , that is joke salary (more like slavery) for the job as important as doctor. But again... junior doctors do not earn £80k... they earn absolute joke salaries like £28k, I don't even know how they survive.

Sure they can go contracting and earn £600/day (and that is not even £80k and not 5 percentile of top earners, it is more like top 2%), but the only way to do it is NOT to work for NHS. The question is - why are agencies allowed, why NHS is allowed to hire from agencies, why NHS is allowed to hire contractors for roles that are required 24/7? 

What I am saying - system is broken, and it ain't junior doctors that broke it (in all likelihood tories are behind it).

[Tickedon]

14 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I can't comment on pension... honestly don't consider it relevant.

To simplify this discussion - do we agree that the only benefit of any training is to earn more? So if one does not earn more, then where is the benefit?

The pay in UK is not good - that is fact. You are correct in a way that doctors can train-up with subsidies, but then instead of working for NHS they can go private or emigrate (which they absolutelly should do), but then also pension becomes irrelevant, because to qualify one has to work for NHS. Anyway it is little bit naive to believe that doctors will sacrifice themselves just because they got some training subsidy, reality is that UK is short on doctors, that is why they get subsidy for studies, goverment trying to upskill the people. The mistake here is that after "upskilling" they lose them, because the only way to keep "skilled" person is to pay them in line with their expertise. So in UK they did first step - they upskilled some people, but they failed on second step to pay the "skilled" people right to keep them working. This is applicable to anyone, not just doctors - the more "trained" somebody is, the more they have to be paid.. that their training costed 200k, there is no direct benefit for them, until they earn the salary. 

Also top 5%, that basically doesn't mean anything, anyone earning £80k is in 5 percentile... with £80k you can't even buy 1 bed flat (I just calculating roughly - average flat in London is like £400k, 20% deposit is 80k and with 80k salary you would boreally get 400k mortgage) , that is joke salary (more like slavery) for the job as important as doctor. But again... junior doctors do not earn £80k... they earn absolute joke salaries like £28k, I don't even know how they survive.

Sure they can go contracting and earn £600/day (and that is not even £80k and not 5 percentile of top earners, it is more like top 2%), but the only way to do it is NOT to work for NHS. The question is - why are agencies allowed, why NHS is allowed to hire from agencies, why NHS is allowed to hire contractors for roles that are required 24/7? 

What I am saying - system is broken, and it ain't junior doctors that broke it (in all likelihood tories are behind it).

Glad we got there in the end. We can double doctor’s starting salaries to match the riches on offer elsewhere, but we also require them to pay for their own training. That puts us - taxpayers - on an even footing if they decide to work outside the NHS or go abroad. It’s the only way to do it.

And I’m afraid most people would be very happy to be in the top 5% of earners, and the rest of your post suggests how out of touch you are with the many hardworking taxpayers currently paying for the doctor’s salaries, pensions, and training costs.

It’s why the £200 or £300 winter fuel payments are so important to pensioners, but most definitely the two million or so with income just over £11.5k per year. 

[Malc1]

WINTER FUEL PAYMENTS

PLEASE 

What’s the solution to this BLUNT cessation by this Govt and the Chancellor of the Exchequer specifically ? 

Malc

[Tickedon]

34 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

WINTER FUEL PAYMENTS

PLEASE 

What’s the solution to this BLUNT cessation by this Govt and the Chancellor of the Exchequer specifically ? 

Malc

This is one way to make your voice heard: https://campaigns.ageuk.org.uk/page/154268/petition/1?ea.tracking.id=Website

[Malc1]

6 hours ago, Tickedon said:

This is one way to make your voice heard: https://campaigns.ageuk.org.uk/page/154268/petition/1?ea.tracking.id=Website

Thank you   Well found 👍

I wasn’t aware this existed 

I have given this my support and advised my Co-aged Okdies too 

Malc