5,000 Mile Oil Changes

[Guest]

I planned to do 5k oil changes with the intent of keeping the car 'good' before oil breaks down over time...  My mileage is around optimal for 12 months / 10,000 and it's now been six months since I last changed with Toyota oil and filters...

Before I spend ~£100 on more oil and a filter I was thinking...

EGR and head gasket issues, popular in the US with CT's but seemingly non-issues around the world elsewhere.. I guess because of their lower standard oil / petrol??? 

Could the genuine Toyota / reputable aftermarket oil makers oil in the UK and Europe market be a higher quality... I notice all the internet mechanics like the Car Care Nut / Scotty Kilmer / etc - all US based and US car experience.. In America they also seem to continue to distinguish 'fully synthetic' oil versus non fully synthetic... over here, it seems like 99% of oil for 99% of modern cars is simply fully synthetic whether you buy it at Halfords or Tesco when they have it on a promo...  So is that why in the US, they support 5k oil changes? 

Toyota / Lexus is a good consumer friendly company but at the same time... contrary to that rep, they have dabbled in the 'subscription heated seat' idea before giving it up... they make questionable choices over producing the new Yaris / Corolla's with poor cheaper 12v batteries last year leading to quite the influx of owners on the Toyota forum telling stories of roadside recovery.  And they are beholden to unrealistic standards in terms of being 'eco', with Greenpeace calling them the 'worst company for the planet' due to the anti-EV stance (although it is right to be hesitant on EVs). So could 10k oil intervals and '20k+' filter recommendations simply be a way to comply and make cars seem more 'eco' whilst shortening service life enough to keep us back into new models?  (I'll take the tinfoil hat off now) 

 

What do you folks think? You've owned these cars a lot longer than me and been driving a lot longer. I value your input and I trust no government or sponsors or corporate CEOs are influencing your thoughts! lol 

[wharfhouse]

10 minutes ago, CT200NI said:

I planned to do 5k oil changes with the intent of keeping the car 'good' before oil breaks down over time...  My mileage is around optimal for 12 months / 10,000 and it's now been six months since I last changed with Toyota oil and filters...

Before I spend ~£100 on more oil and a filter I was thinking...

EGR and head gasket issues, popular in the US with CT's but seemingly non-issues around the world elsewhere.. I guess because of their lower standard oil / petrol??? 

Could the genuine Toyota / reputable aftermarket oil makers oil in the UK and Europe market be a higher quality... I notice all the internet mechanics like the Car Care Nut / Scotty Kilmer / etc - all US based and US car experience.. In America they also seem to continue to distinguish 'fully synthetic' oil versus non fully synthetic... over here, it seems like 99% of oil for 99% of modern cars is simply fully synthetic whether you buy it at Halfords or Tesco when they have it on a promo...  So is that why in the US, they support 5k oil changes? 

Toyota / Lexus is a good consumer friendly company but at the same time... contrary to that rep, they have dabbled in the 'subscription heated seat' idea before giving it up... they make questionable choices over producing the new Yaris / Corolla's with poor cheaper 12v batteries last year leading to quite the influx of owners on the Toyota forum telling stories of roadside recovery.  And they are beholden to unrealistic standards in terms of being 'eco', with Greenpeace calling them the 'worst company for the planet' due to the anti-EV stance (although it is right to be hesitant on EVs). So could 10k oil intervals and '20k+' filter recommendations simply be a way to comply and make cars seem more 'eco' whilst shortening service life enough to keep us back into new models?  (I'll take the tinfoil hat off now) 

 

What do you folks think? You've owned these cars a lot longer than me and been driving a lot longer. I value your input and I trust no government or sponsors or corporate CEOs are influencing your thoughts! lol 

I have a 2014 reg IS 300h now with 150k miles on it (owned it since it was 2 years old with 40k miles on it) - dealer serviced since new as per 10k miles schedule. Drives like new. Personally I would just stay with the 10k mile / 12 months oil change schedule - make sure you use OEM parts of doing it yourself. Most of the US website / YouTube stuff is IMHO out of touch with modern standards and / or the EU / UK fuel and oils.

For reference I also owned a 1997 reg E39 BMW 528i from new to 210k miles. Again always serviced by BMW according to its own on board oil change monitor (so no fixed interval but it was usually around 15k miles). Never changed the auto gear box oil (sealed for life) and never had an issue with the car despite all the drama on the US forums that was prevalent at the time... That was technology from decades ago and so I have no doubts as to sticking with the Lexus recommendations. 

[johdhm]

I'd say don't bother.  If you are doing 10k miles a year, then an annual change of oil should be fine.  Just use a reputable brand and the correct viscosity / type.

That was you avoid the unnecessary pollution of  disposing of the old oil, even if it is recycled.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

I have a 2014 reg IS 300h now with 150k miles on it (owned it since it was 2 years old with 40k miles on it) - dealer serviced since new as per 10k miles schedule. Drives like new. Personally I would just stay with the 10k mile / 12 months oil change schedule - make sure you use OEM parts of doing it yourself. Most of the US website / YouTube stuff is IMHO out of touch with modern standards and / or the EU / UK fuel and oils.

For reference I also owned a 1997 reg E39 BMW 528i from new to 210k miles. Again always serviced by BMW according to its own on board oil change monitor (so no fixed interval but it was usually around 15k miles). Never changed the auto gear box oil (sealed for life) and never had an issue with the car despite all the drama on the US forums that was prevalent at the time... That was technology from decades ago and so I have no doubts as to sticking with the Lexus recommendations. 

That's re-assuring to know. So the 10k intervals are okay. I trust you as an owner (with real money and stake invested in the game) telling me that over anybody else. Hopefully more folks also have the same experience. 

With your BMW, was that like Lexus / Toyota saying 'transmission fluid is for life, don't replace it / we don't replace it in any service' but it can be done DIY - or is it physically sealed, requiring a complete removal and strip down of the gearbox in order to change it?  Interesting that it was fine, but glad to hear that. I changed my Lexus CT transmission fluid in January (genuine fluid) and it was nearly black with dirt versus the new reddish/purple like stuff.  Messy stuff though! 

[ColinBarber]

The engine in the CT had a revision in 2014/15 to stop carbon build up on the piston rings which could ultimately lead to oil consumption and engine damage. I'd therefore state for your vehicle that the standard 10k/12 month service interval is fine, provided you use quality oil, but no harm in changing more frequently (other than environmental).

Toyota/Lexus use the same oil in the US, it is just that the market there expects more frequent oil changes (or more precisely, there isn't the same pressure to extend the services intervals as there is in Europe).

[PRT68]

Waste of money. 

I used the cheapest, relevant oil in my Prius when I was a taxi driver. 

Changed every 10k. Took it up to 192k, when I sold it, and it carried on until over 230k with the next owner before it was written off in an accident. 

Didn't change the transmission oil either. 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

The engine in the CT had a revision in 2014/15 to stop carbon build up on the piston rings which could ultimately lead to oil consumption and engine damage. I'd therefore state for your vehicle that the standard 10k/12 month service interval is fine, provided you use quality oil, but no harm in changing more frequently (other than environmental).

Toyota/Lexus use the same oil in the US, it is just that the market there expects more frequent oil changes (or more precisely, there isn't the same pressure to extend the services intervals as there is in Europe).

Do you know who makes the oil that comes in the Toyota bottles? I know all OEM oil is made by one of the big oil firms - but I'm a believer in quality being better when done under the supervision of a manufacturer in general.  I thought that the EU market supplied Toyota oil would be a different partnership from whoever makes it for the US and other markets 'Toyota' bottle oils

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, PRT68 said:

Waste of money. 

I used the cheapest, relevant oil in my Prius when I was a taxi driver. 

Changed every 10k. Took it up to 192k, when I sold it, and it carried on until over 230k with the next owner before it was written off in an accident. 

Didn't change the transmission oil either. 

Excellent! So high-mileage approved! 

[ColinBarber]

50 minutes ago, CT200NI said:

Do you know who makes the oil that comes in the Toyota bottles? I know all OEM oil is made by one of the big oil firms - but I'm a believer in quality being better when done under the supervision of a manufacturer in general.  I thought that the EU market supplied Toyota oil would be a different partnership from whoever makes it for the US and other markets 'Toyota' bottle oils

Possibly it is a different OEM, or just a different local refinery of the same OEM, either way it should be to the same Toyota standard.

Toyota heavily use Exxon Mobil, certainly in the US market, but the oil would be different to a bottle of Mobil 1 - different additives would be used.

[wharfhouse]

1 hour ago, CT200NI said:

That's re-assuring to know. So the 10k intervals are okay. I trust you as an owner (with real money and stake invested in the game) telling me that over anybody else. Hopefully more folks also have the same experience. 

With your BMW, was that like Lexus / Toyota saying 'transmission fluid is for life, don't replace it / we don't replace it in any service' but it can be done DIY - or is it physically sealed, requiring a complete removal and strip down of the gearbox in order to change it?  Interesting that it was fine, but glad to hear that. I changed my Lexus CT transmission fluid in January (genuine fluid) and it was nearly black with dirt versus the new reddish/purple like stuff.  Messy stuff though! 

The BMW auto gear box oil I believe could be changed in the normal way, but the dealers didn't promote doing it as BMW said it should last a lifetime (same as Lexus/ Toyota). I ran the car to 210K miles (10 years old) and never had the auto gearbox oil changed and the car was running as sweet as a nut when I traded it in (at the time against another BMW). The only thing that I felt may have needed attention soon was the original suspension which was starting to sound a bit noisier that it should - however, it never failed it's MoT.

I have taken the same view with my IS 300h - still everything original including the transmission oil and everything running like new. I'm not convinced the colour of the oil is an indication as to it's effectiveness, it's a sealed system compared to the engine which will always pick up contaminants into the oil over time. I see no reason at all why Lexus would not say change the transmission oil at an interval if they genuinely felt it was worth it. At the end of the day it's not a difficult job, and they say to change the engine coolant at 100K miles and the inverter coolant at 150k miles, which are arguably just as hard a job as the transmission oil to change (at least for a dealer). So why not say change the transmission oil too at a similar interval if it is required? I am sure they will have tested it to failure. I know there was someone on this forum who did around 230k miles in their IS 300h still on the original transmission oil and it had no issues. However, if done correctly there should be no downside changing the transmission oil, the only issue is that there are downsides if it isn't done correctly (on the BMW forum there were a lot of reports of issues having changed the gearbox oil - such as I have an issue but have changed the oil regularly, but none that I recall of failures when it hadn't been touched, as per mine...).

Of course, each of us needs to decide what we feel comfortable with, but that's my personal experiences.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, wharfhouse said:

The BMW auto gear box oil I believe could be changed in the normal way, but the dealers didn't promote doing it as BMW said it should last a lifetime (same as Lexus/ Toyota). I ran the car to 210K miles (10 years old) and never had the auto gearbox oil changed and the car was running as sweet as a nut when I traded it in (at the time against another BMW). The only thing that I felt may have needed attention soon was the original suspension which was starting to sound a bit noisier that it should - however, it never failed it's MoT.

I have taken the same view with my IS 300h - still everything original including the transmission oil and everything running like new. I'm not convinced the colour of the oil is an indication as to it's effectiveness, it's a sealed system compared to the engine which will always pick up contaminants into the oil over time. I see no reason at all why Lexus would not say change the transmission oil at an interval if they genuinely felt it was worth it. At the end of the day it's not a difficult job, and they say to change the engine coolant at 100K miles and the inverter coolant at 150k miles, which are arguably just as hard a job as the transmission oil to change (at least for a dealer). So why not say change the transmission oil too at a similar interval if it is required? I am sure they will have tested it to failure. I know there was someone on this forum who did around 230k miles in their IS 300h still on the original transmission oil and it had no issues. However, if done correctly there should be no downside changing the transmission oil, the only issue is that there are downsides if it isn't done correctly (on the BMW forum there were a lot of reports of issues having changed the gearbox oil - such as I have an issue but have changed the oil regularly, but none that I recall of failures when it hadn't been touched, as per mine...).

Of course, each of us needs to decide what we feel comfortable with, but that's my personal experiences.

All very good points. 

I changed everything in January on my 7 year old CT200h - coolant for both systems, gearbox fluid, brake fluid etc. Not least as it had been sitting for over six months - possibly some breakdown over time or from sustained lack of use.  Didn't cost too much in fairness to DIY. Didn't trust the dealer to do it, as when I enquired about it, they told me they won't do it as it's not required fml. I always thought they'd do it if paid to do it also.  Same dealer refused to price me an oil change and said it's Minor / Major service only. I'm sure BMW dealers would be a bit more flexible for the customer!  Lack of competition in NI .. single Lexus dealer, no reason or need to keep the customer happy - it's them or nobody as far as dealer work goes 😞

[wharfhouse]

5 minutes ago, CT200NI said:

All very good points. 

I changed everything in January on my 7 year old CT200h - coolant for both systems, gearbox fluid, brake fluid etc. Not least as it had been sitting for over six months - possibly some breakdown over time or from sustained lack of use.  Didn't cost too much in fairness to DIY. Didn't trust the dealer to do it, as when I enquired about it, they told me they won't do it as it's not required fml. I always thought they'd do it if paid to do it also.  Same dealer refused to price me an oil change and said it's Minor / Major service only. I'm sure BMW dealers would be a bit more flexible for the customer!  Lack of competition in NI .. single Lexus dealer, no reason or need to keep the customer happy - it's them or nobody as far as dealer work goes 😞

Yes, if you get a car at that sort of age totally agree in making sure everything has been changed - in my case my car was only two years old when I bought it and had been first sold by and serviced at the Lexus dealer I bought it from so I was pretty certain all had been done correctly to date. I'm lucky in that I have a few dealers all within what I would consider a sensible distance to go for best service. Fortunately I've been happy to date with my closest dealer.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, wharfhouse said:

Yes, if you get a car at that sort of age totally agree in making sure everything has been changed - in my case my car was only two years old when I bought it and had been first sold by and serviced at the Lexus dealer I bought it from so I was pretty certain all had been done correctly to date. I'm lucky in that I have a few dealers all within what I would consider a sensible distance to go for best service. Fortunately I've been happy to date with my closest dealer.

Ah yes, two years is fairly safe. Especially for lifetime guaranteed things, or fluids etc.  I think off the back of my experiences with Lexus in NI, I'd even just ring around my local Toyota dealers of which there are many, and see whose willing to give me the best price for the interchangeable filters / fluids that work with my CT as it's basically a Prius mechanically. Then again, hard to beat the prices on Lexus Direct Parts! 

[VFR]

10 hours ago, CT200NI said:

I planned to do 5k oil changes with the intent of keeping the car 'good' before oil breaks down over time...  My mileage is around optimal for 12 months / 10,000 and it's now been six months since I last changed with Toyota oil and filters...

Before I spend ~£100 on more oil and a filter I was thinking...

EGR and head gasket issues, popular in the US with CT's but seemingly non-issues around the world elsewhere.. I guess because of their lower standard oil / petrol??? 

Could the genuine Toyota / reputable aftermarket oil makers oil in the UK and Europe market be a higher quality... I notice all the internet mechanics like the Car Care Nut / Scotty Kilmer / etc - all US based and US car experience.. In America they also seem to continue to distinguish 'fully synthetic' oil versus non fully synthetic... over here, it seems like 99% of oil for 99% of modern cars is simply fully synthetic whether you buy it at Halfords or Tesco when they have it on a promo...  So is that why in the US, they support 5k oil changes? 

Toyota / Lexus is a good consumer friendly company but at the same time... contrary to that rep, they have dabbled in the 'subscription heated seat' idea before giving it up... they make questionable choices over producing the new Yaris / Corolla's with poor cheaper 12v batteries last year leading to quite the influx of owners on the Toyota forum telling stories of roadside recovery.  And they are beholden to unrealistic standards in terms of being 'eco', with Greenpeace calling them the 'worst company for the planet' due to the anti-EV stance (although it is right to be hesitant on EVs). So could 10k oil intervals and '20k+' filter recommendations simply be a way to comply and make cars seem more 'eco' whilst shortening service life enough to keep us back into new models?  (I'll take the tinfoil hat off now) 

 

What do you folks think? You've owned these cars a lot longer than me and been driving a lot longer. I value your input and I trust no government or sponsors or corporate CEOs are influencing your thoughts! lol 

Your is a 2017 (?) is it not, in that case Lexus service once every year will give it another years warranty (IMO a no brainer)

Scotty Kilmer is (IMO) just a loud mother idiot spouting the bleeding obvious, unlike C/C/Nut.

Changing the oil & filter every 6 months can never do “any” harm and if I was in a place set up to do that then odds on I would. (Again IMO)

[Jgtcracer]

Particularly whilst the relax warranty is in effect, my car is serviced in accordance with Lexus recommendations by them.  In not particularly cynical but could imagine a scenario when another manufacturer would design a service schedule to ensure reliability for the warranty of the car and no longer. With Toyota/Lexus I do think that 10 years is a bit long for them to risk doing that and so just play with the T&Cs of relax to compensate for it.  
 

If I took my car to Lexus every 10k miles for a service and to get the warranty topped up, but did a DIY oil change at home at 5k I wonder where I would stand on warranty if I had an associated problem?  Suppose I could just neglect to tell them I’ve done the oil change at all….

[ColinBarber]

9 hours ago, Jgtcracer said:

If I took my car to Lexus every 10k miles for a service and to get the warranty topped up, but did a DIY oil change at home at 5k I wonder where I would stand on warranty if I had an associated problem?

No issue whatsoever provided no damage or defects occurred as a result of work not performed by an Authorised Lexus Repairer

[Jgtcracer]

50 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

No issue whatsoever provided no damage or defects occurred as a result of work not performed by an Authorised Lexus Repairer

My point is if an issue occurred directly linked to a lubrication related fault, it would make things more difficult?

[Notamech]

11 hours ago, Jgtcracer said:

Particularly whilst the relax warranty is in effect, my car is serviced in accordance with Lexus recommendations by them.  In not particularly cynical but could imagine a scenario when another manufacturer would design a service schedule to ensure reliability for the warranty of the car and no longer. With Toyota/Lexus I do think that 10 years is a bit long for them to risk doing that and so just play with the T&Cs of relax to compensate for it.  
 

If I took my car to Lexus every 10k miles for a service and to get the warranty topped up, but did a DIY oil change at home at 5k I wonder where I would stand on warranty if I had an associated problem?  Suppose I could just neglect to tell them I’ve done the oil change at all….

The specified service intervals are the minimum needed for the warranty to be valid. You can surely get more oil changes done elsewhere or by yourself. Also even if a fault occurs with lubrication it would be interesting to see how they would go about pinning it on you ..unless you make it very obvious by using aftermarket parts like a filter insert.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Jgtcracer said:

My point is if an issue occurred directly linked to a lubrication related fault, it would make things more difficult?

It would depend... if you've failed to do it right (or your local independent mechanic - whoever) has LED to something like no oil in the engine from something not being fastened or knocking the oil pump and damaging it or some other accidental damage, then of course the liability is on you and Lexus will refuse it. But they need to prove it. The burden of proof is on them as the qualified party making the claim that you damaged it. Frankly, if it's an issue that is hard for them to prove and the car seems to work fine, you could probably turn around and point the blame at them and unless they could prove otherwise you could play dumb and say "the car worked fine before you had it", but usually before they do a job they'll look for it and notice it, record their findings and have their case made. If they're smart they will. 

But remember, if a mechanic or any kind of car repair entity points the finger at you for causing damage, they need to prove it. I'm sure consumer rights laws in the UK dictate this. All being fair, cooperative and above board, they will recognise that. It's another reason I prefer large companies and not independents as 'Dave' down the street can much easier shut his door, block your number and walk away from you when you have a complaint with no recourse. Can still take him (or anyone) to court, but we know most people don't take it that far. 

Oil in particular (and other car fluids) can be sent off to labs to do independent samples where they can make all sorts of informed statements on when things occurred or when failure occurred or when something was last changed as well as if it was the correct amount. Not cheap, but it's usually always possible to prove a given point about who did what wrong and when. 

[ColinBarber]

3 hours ago, CT200NI said:

But remember, if a mechanic or any kind of car repair entity points the finger at you for causing damage, they need to prove it. I'm sure consumer rights laws in the UK dictate this.

You are getting into a grey area here. You would be entirely correct for the manufacturer's warranty but not necessarily an aftermarket one where the issuer has the ability to put in more clauses and stipulations (because you have a choice what aftermarket warranty you go for), and especially one that you haven't actually purchased. However, yes they need to be able to back up their words with some evidence.

If the oil used was within the spec given in the owners handbook and the procedure was carried out competently then there can be no comeback. If that isn't the case then your claim would be against whoever performed the intermediate oil change, not Lexus.

[Linas.P]

On 7/30/2024 at 12:36 PM, PRT68 said:

Waste of money. 

I used the cheapest, relevant oil in my Prius when I was a taxi driver. 

Changed every 10k. Took it up to 192k, when I sold it, and it carried on until over 230k with the next owner before it was written off in an accident. 

Didn't change the transmission oil either. 

Disagree, 10k is ridiculous mileage for oil change, it is way too much and even by Toyota/Lexus schedule this is "qualified EXTENDED service". This NOT suppose to be standard service, but only applied to lightly used cars. If you doing city driving, short trips, towing (unlikely to apply to CT or Prius) or driving at extended periods at highs speed (any motorway driving at 60MPH+), then you do NOT qualify for this extended service and should do 6000 miles instead or even 3000 miles. Lexus and Toyota really does poor job on advertising it, but there is service bulleting explaining this. If car for example does low miles and short trips (yes driving car rarely and on short trips is the worst possible use case for engine), that is exceptionally bad for engine and 3000 miles/6-monhs service should be used. For taxi driving I would assume 6000 miles service is applicable - so car drives a lot, but mostly in the traffic. Generally speaking almost no car qualifies for 10,000 miles extended service, as to qualify you would have to be living in paradise - driving every day, not very long, but not very short distance - say 50 miles, and also driving without any traffic, stopping or accelerating, but also not too fast, say ~40-50MPH... So perhaps if you live in very rural location where the city is 25 miles away and there are no cars whatsoever on a quiet rural road, where you can sit into the car drive to the shop without ever touching the brakes, park, shop and go back... only then you would qualify for 10,000 miles service. 

Now sure Toyota/Lexus are very reliable cars and engines are great (Prius/CT engine isn't the best, because of low compression rings that are known to stick and wear out the block and burn the oil, but even they last 300 miles), doing the service every 10k miles or 12 month, whichever comes first, one would already be doing better than 80% of driver. So it could be seen as diminishing returns. CT can probably last 200k miles on 10k service intervals. It is not ideal for the engine, but it will survive. That said if one wants optimal conditions for the engine and car that isn't excessively abused, then 6,000 miles service is the best. Oil is cheap, engines are expensive, so it really does not hurt to do oil change twice a year. Don't need to do full service - just oil and filter.

Whenever to use Toyota oil or aftermarket oil... As far as I am concerned Toyota oil is cheapest oil that meets the standard, it is not great oil. Also oils have improved significantly and chemistry is continue to improve... meaning - even cheapest oil today is better than the best premium oil 10 years ago. So what oil to use?! Any oil brand that can be trusted - Mobil, BP (Castrol), Shell etc. I would stay away from cheap unknown brands, like supermarket oils (research needs to be done who is supplying it, for example I once bought ASDA branded oil, it was supplied by Castrol), some never heard oils on eBay etc. In short when it comes to oil changes my option can be summarised as such - it is better to use cheaper oil and replace it more often, than use good oil and replace it rarely. Modern oil has loads of additives and modifiers that diminish with use and time, also engine is very hostile place with a lot of stuff getting into the oil - blow by petrol, soot, water also gets in to the oil (water is combustion by product from petrol) etc. Just open the oil cap after say 3 months and smell it - it wont smell of oil, it will smell of a mixture of petrol, exhaust gases etc. There is no other way of cleaning it, but replacing the oil.

Transmission oil change is quite controversial topic, I am not an expert on CVT, but with normal automatic at 192k you are basically taking risks, you been lucky... dodged the bullet, but others may end-up replacing gearbox. Again not sure about CVT, but automatics are basically not repairable and professionally rebuilt unit is like £2000-3000. What is cheaper - gearbox fluid change or gearbox... it kind of depends on various things, how long you planning to keep car, whenever it was maintained before, what is the mileage etc. If car already has 192k and was never maintained and does not have issue, then perhaps I would leave it at that, but if car is low miles and you planning on keeping it then ideally gearbox fluid has to be changed ~60k-100k miles. Again that is for auto - not sure about CVT.  

16 hours ago, Jgtcracer said:

Particularly whilst the relax warranty is in effect, my car is serviced in accordance with Lexus recommendations by them.  In not particularly cynical but could imagine a scenario when another manufacturer would design a service schedule to ensure reliability for the warranty of the car and no longer. With Toyota/Lexus I do think that 10 years is a bit long for them to risk doing that and so just play with the T&Cs of relax to compensate for it.

If I took my car to Lexus every 10k miles for a service and to get the warranty topped up, but did a DIY oil change at home at 5k I wonder where I would stand on warranty if I had an associated problem?  Suppose I could just neglect to tell them I’ve done the oil change at all….

You would be fine - it is exactly what I did (not at home, but I would do oil change in non-authorised service after 6k in between annual services with Lexus).

As Colin said - unless they can find obvious issue, something dumb, like there was no oil in the engine, or oil filter is not fitter, or it is fitted, but plastic cover is not removed and engine was starved of oil... or somehow there is some tool lurking in the oil pan... sure they may reject it. But it has to be obvious and easily provable that whomever worked on the car in between is responsible. Relax T&Cs do not mention that you are prohibited from maintaining the car anywhere else, they just stating that if unauthorised service cause the damages then Relax won't cover it (which is reasonable). And even if it would be mentioned, it would be something that is extremely difficult to prove. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

Disagree, 10k is ridiculous mileage for oil change, it is way too much and even by Toyota/Lexus schedule this is "qualified EXTENDED service". This NOT suppose to be standard service, but only applied to lightly used cars. If you doing city driving, short trips, towing (unlikely to apply to CT or Prius) or driving at extended periods at highs speed (any motorway driving at 60MPH+), then you do NOT qualify for this extended service and should do 6000 miles instead or even 3000 miles. Lexus and Toyota really does poor job on advertising it, but there is service bulleting explaining this. If car for example does low miles and short trips (yes driving car rarely and on short trips is the worst possible use case for engine), that is exceptionally bad for engine and 3000 miles/6-monhs service should be used. For taxi driving I would assume 6000 miles service is applicable - so car drives a lot, but mostly in the traffic. Generally speaking almost no car qualifies for 10,000 miles extended service, as to qualify you would have to be living in paradise - driving every day, not very long, but not very short distance - say 50 miles, and also driving without any traffic, stopping or accelerating, but also not too fast, say ~40-50MPH... So perhaps if you live in very rural location where the city is 25 miles away and there are no cars whatsoever on a quiet rural road, where you can sit into the car drive to the shop without ever touching the brakes, park, shop and go back... only then you would qualify for 10,000 miles service. 

Now sure Toyota/Lexus are very reliable cars and engines are great (Prius/CT engine isn't the best, because of low compression rings that are known to stick and wear out the block and burn the oil, but even they last 300 miles), doing the service every 10k miles or 12 month, whichever comes first, one would already be doing better than 80% of driver. So it could be seen as diminishing returns. CT can probably last 200k miles on 10k service intervals. It is not ideal for the engine, but it will survive. That said if one wants optimal conditions for the engine and car that isn't excessively abused, then 6,000 miles service is the best. Oil is cheap, engines are expensive, so it really does not hurt to do oil change twice a year. Don't need to do full service - just oil and filter.

Whenever to use Toyota oil or aftermarket oil... As far as I am concerned Toyota oil is cheapest oil that meets the standard, it is not great oil. Also oils have improved significantly and chemistry is continue to improve... meaning - even cheapest oil today is better than the best premium oil 10 years ago. So what oil to use?! Any oil brand that can be trusted - Mobil, BP (Castrol), Shell etc. I would stay away from cheap unknown brands, like supermarket oils (research needs to be done who is supplying it, for example I once bought ASDA branded oil, it was supplied by Castrol), some never heard oils on ebay etc. In short when it comes to oil changes my option can be summarised as such - it is better to use cheaper oil and replace it more often, than use good oil and replace it rarely. Modern oil has loads of additives and modifiers that diminish with use and time, also engine is very hostile place with a lot of stuff getting into the oil - blow by petrol, soot, water also gets in to the oil (water is combustion by product from petrol) etc. Just open the oil cap after say 3 months and smell it - it wont smell of oil, it will smell of a mixture of petrol, exhaust gases etc. There is no other way of cleaning it, but replacing the oil.

Transmission oil change is quite controversial topic, I am not an expert on CVT, but with normal automatic at 192k you are basically taking risks, you been lucky... dodged the bullet, but others may end-up replacing gearbox. Again not sure about CVT, but automatics are basically not repairable and professionally rebuilt unit is like £2000-3000. What is cheaper - gearbox fluid change or gearbox... it kind of depends on various things, how long you planning to keep car, whenever it was maintained before, what is the mileage etc. If car already has 192k and was never maintained and does not have issue, then perhaps I would leave it at that, but if car is low miles and you planning on keeping it then ideally gearbox fluid has to be changed ~60k-100k miles. Again that is for auto - not sure about CVT.  

You would be fine - it is exactly what I did (not at home, but I would do oil change in non-authorised service after 6k in between annual services with Lexus).

As Colin said - unless they can find obvious issue, something dumb, like there was no oil in the engine, or oil filter is not fitter, or it is fitted, but plastic cover is not removed and engine was starved of oil... or somehow there is some tool lurking in the oil pan... sure they may reject it. But it has to be obvious and easily provable that whomever worked on the car in between is responsible. Relax T&Cs do not mention that you are prohibited from maintaining the car anywhere else, they just stating that if unauthorised service cause the damages then Relax won't cover it (which is reasonable). And even if it would be mentioned, it would be something that is extremely difficult to prove. 

See much of this is what I've also read and heard online - which is in contrast to some of the initial replies yesterday. I see the merit in what both sides are saying. I know that modern oils and schedules should be fine, but I also have my doubts. 

It has me wanting to just spend the ~£100 on oil and filter (as I had planned / done in recent years with my last cars) 'just in case', because I've committed this time to driving this Lexus until the wheels fall off. If I can get it paid off and somehow manage another five years of no-car-payment years, that'd be above and beyond my expectations. 

[DavidCM]

I bought a new Porsche Cayman in 2007.At that time (and all through my 7+ years of ownership) the service interval was every 2 years,or 20,000 miles...I did double check this before ordering the car (and even went round to the workshop and double checked with one of the mechanics).I was reassured that it was fine,particularly as the car wasn't for everyday use.

They did insist on using Mobil 1 which was one of the most expensive oils at the time and even gave a "free" litre of Mobil at every service.There was,however, no such thing as a free lunch with Porsche...everything was horrendously expensive.

I've just checked on the DVLA mot site and the car is still going..17 years later,albeit with quite a number of expensive looking fails in recent years....so Mobil 1 must do the job.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, DavidCM said:

I bought a new Porsche Cayman in 2007.At that time (and all through my 7+ years of ownership) the service interval was every 2 years,or 20,000 miles...I did double check this before ordering the car (and even went round to the workshop and double checked with one of the mechanics).I was reassured that it was fine,particularly as the car wasn't for everyday use.

They did insist on using Mobil 1 which was one of the most expensive oils at the time and even gave a "free" litre of Mobil at every service.There was,however, no such thing as a free lunch with Porsche...everything was horrendously expensive.

I've just checked on the DVLA mot site and the car is still going..17 years later,albeit with quite a number of expensive looking fails in recent years....so mobil 1 must do the job.

On the other end of the spectrum… I bought a 2017 Fiat Panda which had similar 2 year / 18k service intervals in the book which I thought was insane. But could this be striving to meet and exceed European eco regulations? 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, CT200NI said:

See much of this is what I've also read and heard online - which is in contrast to some of the initial replies yesterday. I see the merit in what both sides are saying. I know that modern oils and schedules should be fine, but I also have my doubts. 

It has me wanting to just spend the ~£100 on oil and filter (as I had planned / done in recent years with my last cars) 'just in case', because I've committed this time to driving this Lexus until the wheels fall off. If I can get it paid off and somehow manage another five years of no-car-payment years, that'd be above and beyond my expectations. 

I guess there are few perspectives on that, from the perspective of "what is best for the engine", 5,000-6,000 miles service intervals are certainly better. 

"What is financially best for you", it depends... if car is relatively low mileage (say 50k) and you doing 10k a year, then in 5 years time it will only be at 100k... and even with 10k services car will be just fine. Sure engine won't reach it's full potential and won't go to 300k miles, will start burning oil excessively around maybe 200k, but car may be written-off in an accident before that anyway, or it will be so old that it will be uneconomical to run anyway (apart of just the engine). So it may not matter and it may save some money during the time you own it. 

It kind of happened to me as well... I had IS250 and at 192k car got into accident and insurance didn't care it was in excellent shape mechanically, they just wrote it off. Me knowing car was in good shape, I bought it back and it was fine for another 30k miles until it was stolen. So the moral of the story - with good maintenance it could have gone to maybe 500k, but "life got in a way". So it could be said "it is waste of money", but not because it isn't better for the engine, but because Toyota/Lexus are just so realisable that even with poor maintenance they go all the way to 200k, by which time they are worthless regardless of the condition.  

14 minutes ago, CT200NI said:

On the other end of the spectrum… I bought a 2017 Fiat Panda which had similar 2 year / 18k service intervals in the book which I thought was insane. But could this be striving to meet and exceed European eco regulations? 

Not sure about Fiat, but Porsche like BMW (and few other brand nowadays) have stopped doing annual or mileage based services, instead they have sensors that tells the car when at what service it needs, so in theory "every 2 years/ 18k" is just a check-up, but you may get engine light 300 miles after that service saying "visit authorised workshop in next 500 miles for XYZ".

There is some logic behind it, as mentioned Toyota/Lexus service intervals depend on the use, so what BMW, Porsche etc. is doing (in theory at least) - is simply automatic that decision process. You went on the track and oil reached X temperature for X minutes, it means it was spent and now needs to be replaced. Forget 10k, it will tell you on your way back from track. In practice... who knows, some cars seems to be fine, some other BMW and Porsches have horrible engine problems, by 80k they are trashed.

Again - what is the "lifetime" they have in mind? For the car to last trough warranty period? Through lease... the longest leases are no more than 5 years. So perhaps they see 60k/5 years as the "target lifespan" and 20k services are sufficient. That the car needs entire new engine at 80k... they do not care. In fact they probably like it, because that puts pressure on customers to upgrade. 

What I am saying - I doubt longevity and 2nd or 3rd owners is priority when it comes to new car servicing.