What and how to buy?

Helmsman · July 16

Hello everyone,

Happy to be part of the club.

I’m getting my first car here in the UK and after a lot of research I can say confidently that I am a fan of Lexus and especially the IS & GS 300 F Sport.

Considering it is my first car, I am on a tight budget so GS is out of my budget so looking for an IS 300.

I am looking at cars currently but I wanted to know your opinions. I use it for work so will be going more miles on a short distance. Looking to use this car for 2-3 years.

I will go an extra step and give you the budget as well : 5K-10K

If you know where I can find my car or if you know someone who is selling a car in the UK please let me know I’ll be more than happy to get it.

Thanks in advance!

Linas.P · July 16

One part of your budget is not very realistic. Decent IS300h only starts at maybe £8-9k. And these will be high mileage cars. Nothing wrong with high-mileage, I personally actually think that high-mileage Lexus is best value car, because unlike competition Lexus can last say 200k miles, whereas buying say BMW with 100k miles is really bad idea. But you need one in good shape.

So if we fix your budget, it has to be ~£8-10k, there are no IS300h that you can buy for £5k, if you seen some on facebook marketplace - those are scams. I think the cheapest genuine car I have seen was ~£6k and it has 213k miles on it, and generally looked like it is in poor condition. In short, you not getting any of these cars below £7k and I don't believe ones below £8k and with nearly 200k miles are worth considering.

So again - what would be reasonable car in decent condition... you looking at very early 2013-2014 car, with around 100k miles, for around 10k, maybe you can find one for as low as 8k if you are willing to wait. There aren't many of them, but it is doable.

What you need to look for is car that has good service history, even if it has more miles on it, miles are not an issue, lack of service is... so let's say there is car with 80k miles and part service history, and MOT history consistently shows that it has failed or advised on worn tyres/brakes etc. vs. maybe 120k miles car that has clean history, and was always serviced... I rather take later. Lexus cars are reliable, but they are expensive to fix when they go wrong, so you need to find one that was well maintained.

I would recommend using Autotrader, other sites eBay, or aforementioned facebook are often dodgy, you will often find that the only reason people list their cars there is because they are write-off (been in accident) and Autotrader shows that (and obviously they don't want you to know that part).

In summary - go to autotrader, choose the car that has service history (you will need to ask seller to provide that), choose the specification and options you want and that is about it.

Helmsman · July 17

@Linas.P Thank you so much for that. I understood I was going in the wrong direction. Grateful for the clarity.

In terms of fuel economy how are the IS and GS 2.5 4 Cylinder different from the 3.5 6 Cylinders and V6s? Considering I will be doing multiple short trips inside London everyday.

Linas.P · July 17

It will be much more fuel efficient on short trips than petrol cars, owner may advice further, but you should be able to achieve 35MPG easily (in the city) and probably 40MPG+ combined. We do not have 3.5L (IS350) in UK, but from my experience it is closer to 22-24MPG in the city, 2.5L (IS250) is about 28MPG, 2L turbo (IS200t, or IS300 in US/Worldwide) is even worse - below 22MPG.

Basically - if you looking for the car to drive in the city, this is good choice, as good as it gets from Lexus at this price point (CT200h probably better on economy, but it is overall significantly worse car). Newer plug-in hybrids are better (where you can drive purely on electricity for say 20 miles, on IS300h you can't), but then we talking about the cars for double or even triple the price.

Helmsman · July 17

Got it! I saw few cars on Auto Trader just now but don’t know how to show them to you as this is not allowing me to share links with you here.

Linas.P · July 17

You should be able to post links here, just make sure to strip the end of the link, because it will show your post code otherwise.

e.g. That is my search with filter for under 125k miles and below £11,000, you just need to enter your post code to see the results - www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Petrol%20Hybrid&make=Lexus&maximum-mileage=125000&model=IS&price-to=11000&sort=price-asc

Also you can post the individual cars - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406070503910

P.S. the one I included above is probably the type of car I would be looking for, full Lexus service history (FLSH) is the key word there. I also like F-Sport (although it may not be right car for you, it has harder "adaptive" suspension, but also digital dash) - I think in terms of trims it goes something like this (from worst to best) no-trim>SE>Luxury>Executive>Advance>F-Sport>Premier... and this is quite important to choose from the start, because if trim is missing the feature you want, then retrofitting them to Lexus is very difficult, as such I tend to go to F-Sport or Premier, and they usually cost very little extra when used. Car generally looks in good condition, but I think it is priced lower because of one caveat - it is in Northern Ireland. In principle that isn't an issue, but it means you have to travel very far to inspect it, generally that reduces the prices, but it might be good deal for exactly the same reason. I think if the same car would be listed in London, it would cost £2000 more. There is mistake in listing thought - it says "F-Sport Premier", and that is simply not a thing. I think what it meant was "F-Sport + Premium Sat-Nav", which is great option to have, as it also comes with "Premium" 10 speaker audio, which is what you want as standard 6 speaker system is really pathetic. Ideally you want car with Mark Levinson audio, but those are rare, but Premium audio is also very decent. Finally - there is failure on MOT a year ago, but the details are not available because it was done in NI, so in such case you would want to check was it was and make sure the issue was repaired.

Ohh and finally - to buy Lexus you should be prepared to look for cars "nationally" and travel to get one. They are simply not as common as say BMW, Audi or MB... and if you limit your search results to say 50miles radius, you will filter out 90% of best cars + specifically in London they ten to be priced at premium, for exactly the same reason - people just ignore the cars that are maybe 150 miles away and pay £2000, just because somebody moved them to London.

wharfhouse · July 17

@Linas.P has given a lot of info above so won't repeat that. How well the car has been looked after and serviced is paramount. Mileage not so important. My IS 300h is coming up for 10 years old and has now done 150K miles (I bought it second hand when it was two years old with 40k miles on it). I have always had it serviced by Lexus. In that 110K miles I've owned it, very little has been needed very little outside of normal servicing.

I had a windscreen washer bottle sensor replaced early on in my ownership (under extended warranty)

I had front wheel bearings replaced at 80k miles (replaced under extended warranty) and also opted to get the brake discs/pads changed at the same time (they still had some life left but made sense as the wheel bearings were being done).

The bonnet catch started not locking correctly, Lexus quickly fixed that during a service.

I have just had the car into Lexus at 150K miles for a sticky rear brake caliper (which they have changed under the 10 Year Plus Extended Warranty I still have on the car) and I have opted to have the rear brake discs/pads changed at the same time as although they had some life left they are original and so now very corroded.

That's it for repairs. Still even on the original 12V Battery. Hybrid system performs the same as it always has (and the hybrid Battery is under warranty for 15 years unlimited mileage so long as the car is serviced by Lexus or pay for the hybrid health check separately - about £60 - every 10k miles / 12 months whichever comes first).

As for mpg I reset the computer 110K miles ago when I bought the car and the car computer is telling me my overall average in all of that time is 48mpg. Winter is always a bit lower, summer a bit higher. That's a mix of all driving, but a large percentage of motorway. The hybrid comes into it's own in lower speed traffic so you might do better than that.

There are IS 300h reporting over 200K miles without major issues - the odd one has needed a new hybrid Battery around that mileage and so worth keeping the hybrid health check up to date for higher mileage cars especially. Even if faced with a failed hybrid Battery not in warranty there are options to getting cells refurbished - even getting a new one may be worth it for a few thousand pounds if the rest of the car has a lot of life left in it. But that is the worst case scenario.

On pre-2017 models the VED is just £10 per year (due to go up to £20 per year next year) which is a real bargain and saves quite a bit over the years.

The drive train is the same for all IS 300h by the way - trim levels are all just cosmetic and various (rather confusing) options. The more electronic toys the more can go wrong of course, so although nice as it is to have more toys in the car, note that anything on a Lexus is very expensive to repair - and there aren't a lot of parts available through breakers as the cars are quite rare. Some parts can be purchased abroad quite a bit cheaper if you are good with spanners. You said you are on a tight budget - worth bearing in mind that to last without problems these cars should be well looked after, so do budget properly for the regular servicing etc.

Helmsman · July 17

@Linas.P Funny enough I was literally looking at the same car. 🙂 I can’t thank you enough for your time and advice. I know I’m in good hands and that I’m in the right direction regarding my search for the car I’m looking for.

I will get on with sourcing that car for myself now. I’ll post pictures when I get it.

Take it easy brother. Take care!

Helmsman · July 17

@wharfhouse Thanks much brother for taking time and give me all the info. In terms of servicing etc then - I will try my best to look after the car but how much are we looking at per year in terms of servicing and maintaining an IS 300h?

And what does it mean when we say looking after it well?

Note: I have never had to take care of a car before hence so many doubts.

Mossypossy · July 17

My friend in Guildford has a 2019 300h for sale with 48,000 miles.

She wants £16,000.

Reg M7EWU

wharfhouse · July 18

9 hours ago, Helmsman said:

@wharfhouse Thanks much brother for taking time and give me all the info. In terms of servicing etc then - I will try my best to look after the car but how much are we looking at per year in terms of servicing and maintaining an IS 300h?

And what does it mean when we say looking after it well?

Note: I have never had to take care of a car before hence so many doubts.

Service costs at a Lexus dealer are shown here: https://www.lexus.co.uk/centres/reading/owners?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw1920BhA3EiwAJT3lScngHwmhI6EvL4fpkALTCLvr1BZ3cQt5XbxDA6Mo5txyxsqe4oe0ghoCdY0QAvD_BwE

Annual cost depends on how many miles you do and so how many services per year you will need. You can of course save a bit of money using independent dealers but you'll still need to get the hybrid healthcheck done at a Lexus dealer to maintain the hybrid Battery warranty.

Then of course there is insurance - have you checked out what that will cost you? If you haven't got any no claims discount yet that could be a large annual expense.

Annual vehicle tax for pre 2017 models is currently £10 per year, post 2017 models is £180 per year.

The other annual cost is also breakdown cover (if you choose to have this) which will be around £100 per annum.

Replacement tyres are around £120 per wheel (nearer £200 per wheel for F Sport trim as they have larger rims). My rear tyres need changing every 20,000 miles and the fronts every 40,000 miles but I'm not heavy on tyres as I do a lot of motorway miles.

Annual MOT about £50 per annum.

You'll likely have a few other incidental costs so budget another £500 per annum for that perhaps? As the car ages there will be other items that will/may need replacement through general wear and tear such as brakes etc.

When I say looking after it well I mean making sure all maintenence work is done on schedule. Check over the car regularly and keep an eye on engine fluid levels (oil water etc) and tyre pressures. If you see or hear anything unusual investigate and if something needs repairing get it done and don't leave it. It can be tempting to leave something when money is tight but it invariably leads to something bigger going wrong and in a Lexus that can get very expensive very quickly.

Hope that helps. If that all adds up to more than you can afford it may be worth looking at another brand as your first car - a Toyota would deliver a lot of the Lexus reliability if not in such luxury but potentially at a lower running cost and a newer car for your money.

Good luck with whatever decision you go with.

Helmsman · July 18

@Mossypossy Hello brother! Thanks for the offer but unfortunately I don’t have that budget. Apologies

Helmsman · July 18

@wharfhouse Understood brother! It does make sense. What about 2013-2015 Mazda 6 Diesel? Any idea about it?

Linas.P · July 18

6 minutes ago, Helmsman said:

@wharfhouse Understood brother! It does make sense. What about 2013-2015 Mazda 6 Diesel? Any idea about it?

This is probably one for Mazda forum to answer, very different from anything that we deal with here... my first question would be - is it ULEZ compliant and for how long?

wharfhouse · July 18

56 minutes ago, Helmsman said:

@wharfhouse Understood brother! It does make sense. What about 2013-2015 Mazda 6 Diesel? Any idea about it?

No idea - have never had and will never have a diesel engine - well other then in my yacht...! Diesels can be good for those doing very high mileage motorway driving but doesn't sound like that's what you are looking for.

GMB · July 18

2 hours ago, wharfhouse said:

No idea - have never had and will never have a diesel engine

I once worked for a company that bought a fleet of Vauxhall Was it Cavalier or Vectra? Anyway they were 1700cc Diesels - no turbo. It was the first time I had ever driven a diesel. First time out I was on the Leeds M1/M62/M621 massive roundabout entry point and pulled out into heavy traffic. It nearly killed me. Absolutely no power under 2000rpm and nearly got rammed by a lorry as I was trying to get some speed. Horrible cars and horrid to drive. Never forgotten or forgiven diesels after that experience.

BTW The company dumped them as soon as possible because the service intervals were 3000 miles and we lost too many days work while the cars were in the garage. - i.e. sooty black oil.

DavidCM · July 18

1 hour ago, GMB said:

I once worked for a company that bought a fleet of Vauxhall Was it Cavalier or Vectra? Anyway they were 1700cc Diesels - no turbo. It was the f

I used to work for a division of a large Building Society,based in W Yorkshire.Back in the early/mid '90s their standard issue car for the majority of staff was a 1400cc Cavalier..luckily they had a few Rover 214s which I managed to get one...it was the least worse option.I never did get to try the "performance" of a 1400 Cavalier.

Helmsman · July 18

@Linas.P Yes, it is Euro 6. Someone was suggesting I should get a Mazda 6 Diesel as it is reliable and fuel efficient. The only reason I was asking is because if I can save for an year by using another car I could probably invest in buying a good APO Lexus Saloon after that.

Linas.P · July 18

It is your money and your car, so I am not going to say to you not to buy Mazda 6... but it doesn't make much sense knowing how "cheap" cars work.

The cheaper is the car, the more minor issues there will be (and potentially some major), there is point where cars are no longer viable to maintain as repairs are uneconomical... I would say in UK that point is ~£2,000. So when you getting cars for that amount you can be sure to find loads of issues. We have one model here on Lexus forum that accounts for probably 95% of all issues related to Lexus and that is IS220d. It is mainly for same reason - car got cheap, people stopped maintaining them and they are all failing (and that Lexus made few mistakes in design of the engine). The point I am trying to get to - there are no good cars for £2,000, by the time you get it running and safe, perhaps a service, few tyres, few minor issues... it will be £4,000... and if you sell it after just a year, then you most likely going to lose all the money you put into it. That is why people don't like to fix these cars, because at certain point keeping it in good condition no longer adds value to it. So here I would say - if you buy such car, then keep it until it runs, could be good 2-3 years and when it fails just scrap it or if it is still running then maybe sell it. But to buy it for a year, fix it up and then lose money selling just isn't good plan. Alternatively, you can look for Mazda in good condition, lower miles etc. but by the time you get to the good one you probably already in £5,000 range. In that case again - if you going to buy a nice Mazda 6, then why sell it after year, just have that for 2-3 years.

I am no Mazda expert, so all this is just my opinion on cursory search and general knowledge, but the part of buying "cheap" car for a year is just not the most cost effective way.

Notamech · July 19

Dont buy a diesel. Given your use case it doesnt seem like the right fit. You said you plan to do loads of short trips within london. You will most likely end up with a clogged DPF. Those things are fairly expensive to clean and repair.

Also you might be able to save for a new car but on the other hand your mazda will depreciate over the course of the year. Also diesels are becoming less favourably perceived by the general public and hence harder to sell which is why you might find one for an attractive price to begin with.

As Linad suggested above if you cant buy a lexus now. Get a toyota hybrid instead. Many models to choose from. You can get something like an Auris, prius from 2013 14 that will still offer a good driving experience and decent fuel economy will be reliable and last years and fit within your budget.

Helmsman · July 24

Hello all! Thanks a lot for your inputs. Sorry for the late response as I had to do some work over the weekend.. after my research as well it seems like the diesel is definitely a pain in the back.

I definitely want to invest in a really good Lexus Saloon at least by the end of next year. Do you guys believe the below two options would keep me going till then?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407121727428?refresh=true

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407201989068

Look forward to hearing from you all!

wharfhouse · July 24

5 hours ago, Helmsman said:

Hello all! Thanks a lot for your inputs. Sorry for the late response as I had to do some work over the weekend.. after my research as well it seems like the diesel is definitely a pain in the back.

I definitely want to invest in a really good Lexus Saloon at least by the end of next year. Do you guys believe the below two options would keep me going till then?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407121727428?refresh=true

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407201989068

Look forward to hearing from you all!

I can't really comment on car ads as you only know from that what they want you to see. I would check the MOT history on both as that might help you to get a better idea of their history and maintenence. If you go and look at them then a thorough check of everything is crucial - maybe take someone with you who know what to look for - especially electrics to make sure all works (or if it doesn't you don't mind) - as any repairs wil be expensive and quickly take away from any savings you are trying to make towards a better car.

Personally, if I wanted to be saving for a better Lexus to buy later this year I would buy something reliable and cheaper to run for 6 months that I could sell on without losing much money, such as a smaller Toyota. Though buying any car that's older always needs to be carefully bought with the head rather than the heart...

Notamech · July 24

8 hours ago, Helmsman said:

Hello all! Thanks a lot for your inputs. Sorry for the late response as I had to do some work over the weekend.. after my research as well it seems like the diesel is definitely a pain in the back.

I definitely want to invest in a really good Lexus Saloon at least by the end of next year. Do you guys believe the below two options would keep me going till then?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407121727428?refresh=true

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407201989068

Look forward to hearing from you all!

Just be aware the running costs in terms of annual tax on those cars is in the 400s. And fuel consumption is quite high on a 2.5l v6 but otherwise generally speaking theyre good cars. You will need to check them out personally for mechanical integrity rust etc.

Helmsman · July 24

Toyota seems like a good option but I just cannot imagine myself in a hatchback. I’m quite huge in personality with a need for holding a sales team in my car so really confused.

I checked out the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and seems like a decent car. Checked the reviews and forum all good.

Probably because it is my first car and also the fact that a lot of people around me had immense problems with their first cars I am finding it difficult to decide and take a step towards buying a car.

Linas.P · July 25

On 7/24/2024 at 1:10 AM, Helmsman said:

Hello all! Thanks a lot for your inputs. Sorry for the late response as I had to do some work over the weekend.. after my research as well it seems like the diesel is definitely a pain in the back.

I definitely want to invest in a really good Lexus Saloon at least by the end of next year. Do you guys believe the below two options would keep me going till then?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407121727428

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407201989068

Look forward to hearing from you all!

Don't get me wrong... I like IS250s a lot, had many of them, but they are certainly not the best for the city driving and short distances, also £415 road tax, in the traffic you will be getting like 24MPG as well. Seem like you jumping around quite a bit.

Again I don't believe spending £4,000 on semi decent IS250 going to save you any money in 2 years time. Because if you spend nothing on the car in the mean time, then it will be worthless at the end... or going to pay for all and everything that 15 years old car needs, then you not going to save much for upgrade during the ownership. At least not compared to just waiting few more months and just buying what you were intended to buy in the first place.