ULEZ in Scotland

[Malc1]

Thank you George  ............... and then when they do get around to the 30 year Classic Car Sticker rule then I might venture across to France again ........  is it just France do you know ?

Thanks

Malc

[Malc1]

3 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Thank you George  ............... and then when they do get around to the 30 year Classic Car Sticker rule then I might venture across to France again ........  is it just France do you know ?

Thanks

Malc

Also everyone ……for.. the criminal I might become ……. just what could the penalties be for driving sans crit-air and whatever else with a pre-97 car in those French penal areas ?

Does the car get clamped and towed away …… scrapped on the spot …… a fine pushing it’s way thru those secretive Brexit channels getting my details from the UK DVLA 

Just how does the penalty find the miscreant ?  Anyone know yet ? 
Thanks. Malc 

[Malc1]

15 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Also everyone ……for.. the criminal I might become ……. just what could the penalties be for driving sans crit-air and whatever else with a pre-97 car in those French penal areas ?

Does the car get clamped and towed away …… scrapped on the spot …… a fine pushing it’s way thru those secretive Brexit channels getting my details from the UK DVLA 

Just how does the penalty find the miscreant ?  Anyone know yet ? 
Thanks. Malc 

Or maybe as in times past, I was stopped for speeding in France and fined cash on the spot .......  is this the French and other EU nations way of relieving us of our cash maybe ?

Anyone got an inkling of how it's now done please  ??

Thanks

Malc

[GMB]

Speaking from personal experience; they will fine you on the spot. If you have no cash they will take you to an ATM If you still cannot pay they will take you to the police station and keep your car until you pay. However, it depends on the cop and some can be quite understanding and deal with the offence nicely.  Jump a traffic control and you may be shot at  and killed ( check the French news ). 50kph over the limit and they will immediately confiscate your driving licence. Apart from all that they can be very fair, but do not disrespect the cops in France - they bite.😬

[Malc1]

And I’m wondering about the lack of that Sticker ….. Critair or nay …… instant cash fine etc like in speeding ? Or just local CCTV and a fine follows in the post …… is that allowed ? Info divulged by our DVLA ? 
 

I'm interested just as to how I might be criminalised and pay the penalty for driving my aged Lexii in France and the EU 🤔

Malc 

[GMB]

No Critair sticker?   ---    une amende de 3ème classe d'un montant forfaitaire de 68 €.

Immediate fine but sometimes the cop may let it go if you are polite and respectful.

 

[Malc1]

2 hours ago, GMB said:

No Critair sticker?   ---    une amende de 3ème classe d'un montant forfaitaire de 68 €.

Immediate fine but sometimes the cop may let it go if you are polite and respectful.

 

But cars at  30 years plus age ……. Pre 1977 cars and zero availability nor issuance of the critaire sticker ! 
wot could the fine be ??   Instant cash on the spot €68

but I might have a 1000 franc note somewhere too 🤔

Malc 

[BigBoomer]

France and the UK have an "exchange" arrangement that allows automatic fines to be issued both ways. I got done by a camera for 128kph in a 110kph limit in Sept 2019 (I missed the sign 🙄) and the fine didn't arrive until end of November.

If you get stopped by a Cop in a CritAir area without a sticker then you will be fined on the spot,.... and they carry contactless payment devices so a lack of cash doesn't work any more.
If a camera does not see your sticker, you will get a fine in the post a month or 2 later.

By all means drive in France and elsewhere in Europe, but avoid going into any cities. For most cities, as with London, the outer ring road is not part of the Low Emissions zone, so you can use the A86 outer-ring road to get circumvent Paris, but you cannot turn off it except onto a motorway leading away from Paris, and the Peripherique is well inside the zone. Lyon's zone includes both the city centre route (A6/A7) and the inner ring-road (D383) so best to avoid that completely by taking the A46/E15

The French also have some ZPA zones that can impose temporary restrictions due to temporary local pollution problems. These have to be WELL signposted if they are imposed.

I hear lots of people complaining about these Low Emissions Zones but almost all of the complaints come from people who live outside them and are due to the inconvenience/cost of driving into the zones. Most of the people who live in the zones WANT the zones because they are sick to death (literally in some cases) of breathing your pollution. These zones have nothing to do with Global Warming or Climate Change, they are due to the pollution causing Asthma, COPD, and Cancer in those who live there and breathe it day in day out.
 

[Malc1]

Thank you for that appraisal George ……. most helpful 👍

NOW THEN ……. that car aged 30 year plus sticker that’s seemingly not yet available ( in France ) ……. might us/our UK 30 year old cars benefit from that …… could we get one prior to travel from the UK maybe ? 
 

Might, as appropriate, the new 30 year old car sticker supplant the critair one ? 
 

Is this 30 year rule just France ? or maybe Italy, Switzerland Belgium Holland Germany too ? 
 

let alone driving down into Spain and Portugal where Brit and foreign tourists seem to be unwanted in many areas !

 
And then those poor souls living in the French LEZs …… are their 30 year young cars simply banned now or maybe they can get French Govt dispensation to keep killing their neighbours 🤔 ……. just like in the UK with 40 year young car zero MOT needs ! 
 

dare I ever drive to Europe again 🥵 🤣

Malc 

[BigBoomer]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:20 AM, Malc1 said:

NOW THEN ……. that car aged 30 year plus sticker that’s seemingly not yet available ( in France ) ……. might us/our UK 30 year old cars benefit from that …… could we get one prior to travel from the UK maybe ? 

Might, as appropriate, the new 30 year old car sticker supplant the critair one ? 

Is this 30 year rule just France ? or maybe Italy, Switzerland Belgium Holland Germany too ? 
 

let alone driving down into Spain and Portugal where Brit and foreign tourists seem to be unwanted in many areas !

 
And then those poor souls living in the French LEZs …… are their 30 year young cars simply banned now or maybe they can get French Govt dispensation to keep killing their neighbours 🤔 ……. just like in the UK with 40 year young car zero MOT needs ! 
 

dare I ever drive to Europe again 🥵 🤣

Malc 

Yes, since it will be administered via the CritAir system. Essentially it will be a CritAir-Exempt sticker, once they have passed the legislation for it.
France only. 

For other countries you will have to look them up separately, but the easiest method is just to avoid driving into any big cities. Then you don't need any stickers.
In Switzerland & Austria you already have to pay to use the motorways and in France to use the Péages (toll motorways) and that has nothing to do with pollution
Since I have to drive into Brussels (my sister lives there), my car is registered with the Brussels system but otherwise I haven't bothered. I only did the CritAir because of wanting to drive through Rouen or Lyon on my way to southern France.

Malc, your LS400s are RARE. The numbers of 30+ year old cars on the roads are small fraction of the total. 30+ year old French cars that haven't dissolved are even rarer. 🤣

As for your Drama-Queen comments,..... 🙄🤣

[Malc1]

I’ll offer to go to jail then …….. Madame Guillotine might follow 🤪

Malc 

[John N]

Never Mind France - These ULEZ Zones are breading over here!

They are now in:-

Bath

Birmingham

Bradford

Bristol

Greater Manchester (under review)

Portsmouth

Sheffield

Tyneside - Newcastle and Gateshead

Go to https://www.gov.uk/clean-air-zones to check your car.

I now realise why the Scottish Scheme administrators sent my details off to the DVLA and the DVLA have sent me a new V5C document showing the cars' NOx.

Now when I check this site it says the old girl (November 2000 Reg) is exempt from charges in all these zones.

[Malc1]

I might remember recently'ish reading that York is a bit of a " no-go " area too

Malc

[BigBoomer]

Yorks CAZ (Clean Air Zone) only affects buses so far.

[Malc1]

5 minutes ago, BigBoomer said:

Yorks CAZ (Clean Air Zone) only affects buses so far.

then I’m free to Ls400 pollute at will in the City ?  Zero hacking off my head for irreverent behaviour ? 

Malc 

[John N]

On 7/5/2024 at 11:48 AM, BigBoomer said:

I have a Crit-Air Level 2 sticker on my LS430 because all LS430s were and are Euro4.

Sorry Malc, you cannot currently drive your pre-1997 registered cars in any of the French cities that operate the Crit-Air system.☹️ You'll have to take the Honda.
They are working on issuing a Classic car sticker to 30+ year old cars but it's not been done yet, no doubt delayed because of their election.

How did you get a Level 2 Sticker?

When I filled in the application it would not let me enter EURO 4 in the emissions standard box. I think because it was registered in 2000 it would only allow me to enter 'no classification'. Even though I sent them my V5C which now shows NOx emissions of 0.020 g/km and my EEC Certificate of Conformity which shows all emissions within the EURO 4 limits they have given the car a Crit-Air Level 3 sticker.

It was hard enough sorting out the Scots, what do I have to do to sort out the French?

[BigBoomer]

12 hours ago, John N said:

How did you get a Level 2 Sticker?

When I filled in the application it would not let me enter EURO 4 in the emissions standard box. I think because it was registered in 2000 it would only allow me to enter 'no classification'. Even though I sent them my V5C which now shows NOx emissions of 0.020 g/km and my EEC Certificate of Conformity which shows all emissions within the EURO 4 limits they have given the car a Crit-Air Level 3 sticker.

It was hard enough sorting out the Scots, what do I have to do to sort out the French?

Since mine is a 2004 I sent them a copy of my V5C and they accepted it.
I've attached a deidentified copy below so you can compare it to yours.
Mine doesn't say EURO4 either but the car is EURO4 compliant.

[John N]

2 hours ago, BigBoomer said:

Since mine is a 2004 I sent them a copy of my V5C and they accepted it.
I've attached a deidentified copy below so you can compare it to yours.
Mine doesn't say EURO4 either but the car is EURO4 compliant.

George

The only difference between your V5C and mine is that yours shows the CO and HC emissions, mine only shows the NOx emissions.

I had to sent my EEC Certificate of Conformity with the application to show all the emissions.  

 

 

[BigBoomer]

Did you select CritAir2 as the sticker you were requesting? If you requested CritAir4 that is what you get, even if your car is EURO4 like ours.
I initially sent mine in as CritAir3 (EURO3) but someone told me that the LS430 is CritAir2(EURO4) so I re-applied and got the 2 sticker.

[Malc1]

1 hour ago, BigBoomer said:

Did you select CritAir2 as the sticker you were requesting? If you requested CritAir4 that is what you get, even if your car is EURO4 like ours.
I initially sent mine in as CritAir3 (EURO3) but someone told me that the LS430 is CritAir2(EURO4) so I re-applied and got the 2 sticker.

I’m desperate to know what’s going to be available to me, and the cost, for my Ls400s at 30 years young within the anomaly of the parental CritAir scheme ……..

Any thoughts on the timeframe for this ? 
Thanks

Malc 

[BigBoomer]

Given that France doesn't currently have a Prime Minister, not very soon.
Why? Are you planning a trip to Paris in the LS400 this year?

[Malc1]

Not planning anything at all yet …….. just thinking where to go, if at all, and when ……… complexities of international travel in my Ls400s peeee me off a little ……. I enjoy the simple life these days …….. ferry from Holyhead appeals ……… beautiful Eire offers so much …… and in English, well, with a bit of a pleasant lilt ……. 
All I need is a Ls400, a little cash and a card and some free time, internet and good health ……,,

Let's ponder and see ……, passport too ? 
Malc 

[BigBoomer]

Eire is EU, and since Brexit even travelling there got more complex, but at least they don't have any LEZ. 🙂
Yes, you will need a passport. 

I have travelled extensively since birth (I was born in a British Military Hospital in Germany) so coping with the various requirements is pretty much second nature to me.
Life was easier before Brexit, but now we are out we just have to cope with the crap that came with it. LEZ & ULEZ are now an issue and need to be taken into consideration once you know where you are going, but it's easy enough to plan around them. Unfortunately we can no longer just drive where we want in our older vehicles. ☹️

[Malc1]

I’ll be taking a 4 leaf clover and a leprechaun for protection ……. and drinking a little draught Guinness too ……… might that help 🤔🤣🤞

Malc 

[BigBoomer]

At the weekend someone tried to tell me that EVs now had to pay the ULEZ. 🤣
After some discussion it turned out that what they ACTUALLY meant was that EVs have to pay the Congestion Charge which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the ULEZ other than also being administered by TFL.
There is so much misinformation and outright 🐂💩 out there about this subject.

The London Congestion Charge (£15 between 07:00-18:00 Mon/Fri and 12:00-18:00 Sat/Sun/Bank) was supposed to reduce the number of cars in central London, and it has been fairly effective at doing just that, but all it has actually done is to restrict driving into central London for the rich only.

The London ULEZ was put in place to reduce the levels of atmospheric pollution (especially NOx) in all of London which is why there is no charge if your vehicle is compliant with the rules, and a charge of £12.50 per calendar day if you do want to drive your non-compliant vehicle in the ULEZ zone. It has been VERY effective at reducing levels of all pollutants, but especially of NOx.
https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/low-emission-zones-improve-air-quality-health-and-peoples-well-being-new-ipr-policy-brief/

The ULEZ was developed and promoted by Boris Johnson and David Cameron back when they were Mayor and PM respectively.
Sadiq Khan did bring it's introduction forward a year (2019 instead of 2020) and after seeing how effective it was, he expanded it twice (2021 to North/South Circular & 2023 to all London Boroughs).
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/the-truth-about-londons-ultra-low-emission-zone/