RX4 pending....

[GSLV6]

After thinking on it, I've decided to replace my superb RX3 (still feels like new to drive and not far looking like it either!).  I'm in for major spinal surgery later in the year and wanted something slightly more compliant on the suspension as I feel every bump with my back being as it is.  I looked at various models, discounted most other makes after driving or looking at what was on offer and narrowed it down to a newer Rav4 hybrid or an RX4 or RZ.

Long story short, it seems that whilst we simply don't need the room, there's nothing that floats my boat as much as the RX.  It just does so much right.  I'm now in the market for an RX4 F Sport Takumi and the best compliment I can give it, is they've taken all the best bits from the RX3 F Sport and made them better whilst doing away with the worst bits.  I'm opting for the last of the 3.5 V6 models.

My RX3 has been the best car I've ever owned.  Reliable, comfortable, adequate performance and road holding, practical and just a lovely thing to drive.  Bodywork has stood the test of time and a wash and spruce up see's it good enough to be back on a showroom floor, even the alloys look new.  If the RX4 proves to be anything as reliable but builds on the comfort and longevity, it may be the last car I ever need.  Briefly seduced by an LC500 but my wife simply talked sense to me, being the more practical person she is!

Looks like another ten years with Lexus looms for me.  If anyone is on the market for a top spec Fsport RX3 with silly low miles, PM me.  I will be adding photos etc and putting it in the for sale section when I get half a chance...

[fezman]

Make sure you get an insurance quote before you commit to an RX4. 

[Frank the Hornet]

Your comments echo why I have kept my Gen 3 RX450h for  the past 7 years & I'm still not ready to change !!!

[DAN@ADRIAN FLUX]

Hi.

If you need any help with insurance at all then please feel free to drop me a line.

Regards,

Dan.

[GSLV6]

Thanks all.  I'm guessing insurance is costlier on the RX4 due to the canbus vulnerability to attack by would be thieves?  Has this really raised insurance that much on all year RX4 models or is there a particular year when changes to the vehicle security addressed this issue (I've read the latest Lexus statement above in the sub forum and am unsure whether now it's wise to consider changing from what I have).

[fezman]

If I were you Paul, get a quote. If your happy with it, then fine. I paid just short of £400 /yr for my 2013 gen 3 doing 15k miles. I swapped for a gen 4 unaware of the canbus issue last November , it went up to the equivalent of £730 ish /yr . My renewal is £1150. I have max no claims, private driveway, 15k miles, 3k business use, £750 excess. 

Chapo at Chris Knott said everyone except Highway (Allianz i think) were ludicrously higher than 1150. 

By comparison, a brand new RX, with an encrypted canbus, was quoted at £750. So I feel i am being stung for £400 because lexus employed zero security on a car's network in 2022!! Inept doesn't even come close.   

[GSLV6]

I will not be considering an RX4 now.  I will keep our low miles RX3 and look to change to something like an XC60 or similar.  Lexus have lost a long standing customer due to the way they have handled this and I refuse to accept hiked insurance premiums for something which boils down to negligent design.  It's a great shame as the car itself is superb and there's nothing else quite like it for quality, comfort and refinement but good faith in the brand has all but been lost over this debacle.  It is going to cost Lexus dear as I suspect many hundreds of UK Lexus owners will be doing likewise.  For info, I managed to get fully comp for £260 in my RX3 this January so guess I was lucky.  Lexus Insurance wanted not far short of £700.

[Spock66]

20 minutes ago, GSLV6 said:

I will not be considering an RX4 now.

I think that's a wise choice, but if Lexus do come up with the promised fix and insurance settles down may be worth revisiting in a year or so.

[GSLV6]

Yes, perhaps.  I'll bide my time but they've already indicated they're not going to do much bar offer blanking plates which can be defeated....child's play to a professional thief.  It's not beyond the wit of man to re-route the cables with a few minor harness tweaks but that would be more costly than doing next to nothing and hoping that the problem will go away.  It seems as vehicles become ever more complex, they're becoming ironically easier to steal, less reliable (generally), more disposable and not as long lived as many over-engineered more simple mid noughties cars.  There's few so called prestige cars I'd want to own even if I could afford them.  I had thought Lexus were dependable, my RX3 certainly has been, but given the current state of things it's not worth the financial risk to look at a newer model.  I wonder if many buyers of the RX4 had wished they'd kept their RX3's now?

[GSLV6]

Just doing a little more reading.  Am I right in understanding that the CanBus theft issue and therefore targeting by thieves is restricted to RX4's built between 2015 and 2021?  That being the case, are 2022 models immune and if so, are insurance premiums therefore unaffected by 2022 models?

[Paul Mingay]

6 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

Just doing a little more reading.  Am I right in understanding that the CanBus theft issue and therefore targeting by thieves is restricted to RX4's built between 2015 and 2021?  That being the case, are 2022 models immune and if so, are insurance premiums therefore unaffected by 2022 models?

No,I think all series 4 are prone ,,I myself have a my 22 Takumi and apparently lexus are producing a security download coming soon ,ps.the f sport seats are quite firm compared to the takumi and the takumi rides softer 

[Pinkfish]

Most will not quote, but most quotes are between £2000 and £5000 for rubbish cover with a huge excess.  I am told Lexus are doing something but it will be too late - as I have already had to pay a large excess to repair the damage on one attempted theft.  Add the huge premium - it is just too much.

 

[Pinkfish]

7 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

Just doing a little more reading.  Am I right in understanding that the CanBus theft issue and therefore targeting by thieves is restricted to RX4's built between 2015 and 2021?  That being the case, are 2022 models immune and if so, are insurance premiums therefore unaffected by 2022 models?

That is true, but if there are future issues/problems, Lexus will not own up and fix the issue.   This is what I have learned from this debacle. ie the Brand is dead ! 

[Spock66]

10 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

Yes, perhaps.  I'll bide my time but they've already indicated they're not going to do much bar offer blanking plates which can be defeated....child's play to a professional thief.

Blanking plates are currently the solution offered by Lexus, but there is the promise of something better on the horizon...

[GSLV6]

I think I'll wait until they've properly resolved the security issue and would be thieves aren't ripping off body parts to find the quick fix solution as the expense remains to fix the damage on insurance and Lexus solution won't better insurance issues presently because of that.  Insurance companies seem wise to what's going on, more so than most would be customers.

[CT200h-TL]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:17 PM, GSLV6 said:

I will not be considering an RX4 now.  I will keep our low miles RX3 and look to change to something like an XC60 or similar.  Lexus have lost a long standing customer due to the way they have handled this and I refuse to accept hiked insurance premiums for something which boils down to negligent design.  It's a great shame as the car itself is superb and there's nothing else quite like it for quality, comfort and refinement but good faith in the brand has all but been lost over this debacle.  It is going to cost Lexus dear as I suspect many hundreds of UK Lexus owners will be doing likewise.  For info, I managed to get fully comp for £260 in my RX3 this January so guess I was lucky.  Lexus Insurance wanted not far short of £700.

Based on the number of XC60s and XC90s I see on the road, I do wonder if they are really that good? Haven't test driven one myself as I was put off by reliability issues on these reported online.

[GSLV6]

After a little research today, I tend to agree with you.  Volvo now owned by the Chinese, numerous reliability issues, poor dealer after care and expensive service costs.  The car I've been after it appears is sat on my driveway.  Nothing made today really betters it.  It still looks and drives like new and there was a moment of blindness to change it for no better reason than to benefit from another 10 year's warranty.  To keep it means even if I need to renew the hybrid system, and undertake other expensive repairs in future, it will end up costing less than the sum needed to put against it buying buying a two year old RX4 which will then lose much the same in value over the next few years anyway.  

[Spottedlaurel]

8 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

After a little research today, I tend to agree with you.  Volvo now owned by the Chinese, numerous reliability issues, poor dealer after care and expensive service costs.  The car I've been after it appears is sat on my driveway.  Nothing made today really betters it.  It still looks and drives like new and there was a moment of blindness to change it for no better reason than to benefit from another 10 year's warranty.  To keep it means even if I need to renew the hybrid system, and undertake other expensive repairs in future, it will end up costing less than the sum needed to put against it buying buying a two year old RX4 which will then lose much the same in value over the next few years anyway.  

This definitely seems like the way to go Paul.

My 2014 Luxury is the same age as yours, now done 80k. I plan to keep it for the next five years, maybe longer if it's still going well. Not yet sure whether I'll bother with the Extended Warranty as there are reports it doesn't now include the breakdown cover. It's 100% mine, so even the odd big bill will still be considerably cheaper than the cost to change to a newer model (which will also be depreciating at a more rapid rate).

It's tidy enough to look decent if I clean it up, but is relatively understated and I like that. If it gets the odd scratch or WHY from being used on country roads I'm not too worried, so it's the ideal tool for the remaining few years of my full-time working life. It's still as roomy, comfortable and capable as it was when new, and it seems unlikely that whatever I get to eventually replace it will have a V6 so I'll savour my last few years with it.

[GSLV6]

At the time of purchase, the F-Sport was quite an outlay for us because it was top of the range with most option boxes ticked.  It's funny but 8 years on, I'm still quite precious about scratching it try to avoid supermarket car parks unless I can find a remote space.  Our other car is covered in battle scars from utterly selfish, entitled people who have flung doors open on it and run shopping trollies into it.  Some people don't care.  I have one paintwork thumbnail sized mark on the Lexus, where someone keyed the driver door, and after using a the supplied paintwork touch up paint and lacquer, it's not that noticeable.  We'll probably do the same.  Keep it for another 5 years then it owes us nothing much.  Means buying close to new will be out of our reach but by then, there'll possibly be something cheaper that'll be within means.

You're dead right about the V6.  It may not have the punch of the noisier IL4 + hybrid, but it's smoother and quieter.  One of the best engines Toyota/Lexus ever made and seen in rugged and reliable vehicles worldwide from pick-ups to luxury SUVs.  Owners ov V6 Camry's think the same

[Tickedon]

18 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

After a little research today, I tend to agree with you.  Volvo now owned by the Chinese, numerous reliability issues, poor dealer after care and expensive service costs.  The car I've been after it appears is sat on my driveway.  Nothing made today really betters it.  It still looks and drives like new and there was a moment of blindness to change it for no better reason than to benefit from another 10 year's warranty.  

There is a paid-for extended warranty available up to 15 years /150k miles. Not as comprehensive as Relax and for approx £5-600 per year. Not all dealers are aware of it, some reports in here Jemca dealers are aware and will sell it. 

Could give you peace of mind and fixed bill motoring for a few more years? 

[GSLV6]

I probably wouldn't have peace of mind as many issues relate to electrics and some stories of stranded owners after the main screen went down which seemed a particular problem for 2021 cars.  It's frankly unforgiveable for any maker to sell a prestige car which isn't to a top standard of reliability.  By that, I mean that I, personally, wouldn't pay them money for one which has known defects likely to leave someone stranded.  I wouldn't expect a Ford or Vauxhall  to be in the top tier, but all premium cars ought to be. 

[GSLV6]

Much to my surprise, after a chat with Lexus, and pressing for some discount, it seems all is not doom and gloom on purchase price and insurance.  After mentioning canbus vulnerability, forecourt price dropped a little and using the car details I'm after, I was quoted £548 fully comp, total of £650 excess with all the usual add ons thrown in for the standard price (legal expenses, courtesy car, breakdown cover and personal injury cover).  That also covered business use as well as sdp.

That puts a very different slant on things.  I don't consider £548 massively excessive for a car which is a few years old and it seems a heck of a lot cheaper than some folk on here have been quoted, so possibly a post code thing.

[GSLV6]

Insurance sorted and after a test drive today, have decided to risk changing my RX3 to the newer model RX4.

One piece of reassuring information from a Lexus Tech today was that Lexus are soon (next month or two) to announce the release of new software fixes for the canbus vulnerability.  As it was explained to me, this will be a sort of piggy back software installation which will add a new layer of security which can detect any canbus disconnect and trigger an immobiliser without that being able to be bypassed by the current hack.  Effectively this will make it as secure as newer models and will be carried out FOC from what I was told as part of a security recall available to all RX4 owners.

[fezman]

17 hours ago, GSLV6 said:

Insurance sorted and after a test drive today, have decided to risk changing my RX3 to the newer model RX4.

One piece of reassuring information from a Lexus Tech today was that Lexus are soon (next month or two) to announce the release of new software fixes for the canbus vulnerability.  As it was explained to me, this will be a sort of piggy back software installation which will add a new layer of security which can detect any canbus disconnect and trigger an immobiliser without that being able to be bypassed by the current hack.  Effectively this will make it as secure as newer models and will be carried out FOC from what I was told as part of a security recall available to all RX4 owners.

That sounds a good result, and more info on the new security measures than i could get. 
out of interest who was the insurer?

[GSLV6]

Insurer was NFU Mutual in the end.  Not the cheapest but the best cover and best claims handling service overall. One thing I liked was there's not year on year hikes as no shareholders to keep affluent.