You won't believe this - new OE shocks faulty twice!!

[Razor61]

This is a long story, bear with it as it will make sense in the end.

As many may already know I rebuilt the front and rear suspension on my 98 LS400 a 18 months - 2 years ago, fitted KYB shocks not Lexus OE 'made by KYB' shocks and the rears caused a weird bouncy ride.
Replaced the rear KYB shocks with Lexus OE  'made by KYB' shocks and this solved weird bouncy ride so I decided to replace the front KYB shocks with Lexus OE  'made by KYB' shocks so they all matched, original smooth softer ride restored.
However, after driving the car I noticed a noise from the front right which was not there before Lexus fitted the new OE  'made by KYB' shocks. Sort of a suspension bush noise but I couldn't figure it out. It was more apparent going over speed bumps, where I live I can't go anywhere without going over at least 6, and I drove the car for a while to make sure I wasn't hearing things. I also checked all the suspension work I did and couldn't find anything wrong.
I needed to have the alignment/tracking checked because I replaced the steering rack boots and had to remove the outer tie rods so I booked it into Lexus for the tracking and for them to check 'the noise' on the front right.
The Lexus mechanic and I went for a drive somewhere with speed bumps so I could illustrate the noise and left the car for them to check.
At this point the noise was there over speed bumps, was more very annoying rather than 'there is something very wrong' and I couldn't replicate the noise by bouncing the front of the car as far as I remember.
Lexus checked all the suspension, all arms, bushes, top mount etc. which are pretty new and everything is tight as nut. Outcome was that it could be the new Lexus OE shock absorber as everything else is tickety boo and the noise wasn't there before.
New front Lexus OE shock absorber ordered under warranty, this was a few months ago and the shock was on back order.

Fast forward to Thursday last week, car went in for the replacement Lexus OE shock absorber and tracking. This is where it gets 'interesting'.
Call from Lexus to say the new replacement Lexus OE shock absorber hasn't solved the issue, it wasn't the same mechanic who was shown the issue last time but a different mechanic that did the job.
It didn't cost me anything but we, Lexus/myself, are back to square one. Could be the steering rack I'm told, couldn't see how but nothing surprises me any especially on an old car.
Picked up the car and drove home, the 'noise' was a lot worse and I could hear it a heck of a lot more and this time it did sound like 'there is something very wrong'. I needed to get to the bottom of this so plan made to have a look on Saturday, maybe one of the new shock top mounts is causing the issue or a bushing or something.

Saturday:

Early sat morning, I bounced the right front of the car to see if I could hear anything. I couldn't hear anything a few months ago but the noise is a lot worse now.
And guess what.................I could clearly hear 'the noise' and it didn't take much bouncing to hear it either. At least I can replicate the noise without driving the car so it gives me a chance to find it.
Car on the Rhino ramps and I'm going to spend as much time as needed to get to the bottom of this issue.
I then thought about the new top mount, it's been off the car for the new shock but dismissed this as it was on the car with the KYB shocks and it didn't make any noise at all plus they were brand new Lexus OE mounts.
Next I checked all the suspension, top mount and bushes again, sprayed some WD on each bush and top mount then bounced the front of the car after each 'spray' to see if I could pin it down.
Absolutely no change whatsoever so I got under the car and pushed the suspension up and down while listening. I could make the noise 'happen' while doing this.
The more I did this and the more I listened I was pretty sure the noise was from the shock absorber but we are on the second new shock absorber, surely it can't be that!!
So how do I prove it one way or the other? It's a strut so I can't just remove the shock and bounce the car.
This is what I did, I removed the top nut from the shock absorber and this 'disconnects' the shock from the top mount - bounced the car as before and there was no noise.
Put the top nut back on, tightened and bounced the car - noise came back
Repeated this a few times just to be 100% sure and I noticed once the shock had been pushed down it didn't come back up. Another clue that the shock is faulty like there is no gas and/or fluid.
There was fluid around the top of the shock which I wiped off thinking it was the WD I had liberally sprayed around and on the top mount. Maybe this was the fluid that had leaked out.
This morning I called into Lexus and showed the Service guy what I'd found, bounce the front - noise there - remove top mount nut - bounce - noise disappears - put the top nut back on - tightened and bounced the car - noise came back.
One of the mechanics came out and I showed him 'the noise', straightaway he said shock is knackered.
Question now is, what to do about this - keep replacing the shock with a new one until a 'good' one is found?
Lexus are unsure on what to do about it at the moment, not their fault at all that new parts supplied are faulty.
I'm on holiday next week in Scotland/Borders and will be taking the IS250 so I've arranged to drop off the LS400 on Friday and leave it with them all next week to 'confirm' my findings 100% and decide what to do.
I suspect the front passenger side shock is going the same way. Is there a shelf life on shocks and the gas/fluid leaks out over time or the 2 x new shocks from a faulty batch? 2 x new Lexus OE shock absorbers faulty and one worse than the other?
Who knows and I'll keep this post updated with the outcome.

[lex - eleven]

Wow!....Just Wow. Sadly I wouldn't have been able to tackle that job myself and it would have just gone into my indy garage for them to sort out from the start. Good luck with the outcome.

 

J

[Razor61]

10 minutes ago, lex - eleven said:

Wow!....Just Wow. Sadly I wouldn't have been able to tackle that job myself and it would have just gone into my indy garage for them to sort out from the start. Good luck with the outcome.

 

J

Cheers, Lexus Bolton supplied and fitted the new front shocks. I'd had enough doing work on the car at the time and they did me a good deal on fitting them.
I may have had a fight on my hands if I had bought the front shocks and fitted them myself.

[Malc1]

Good luck resolving the issue

Malc

[Spock66]

Maybe they are old stock and have deteriorated with age.

[Malc1]

Ah, I know that feeling well  😇

Malc

[steve2006]

The replacements are going to be “New old stock” so having been stuck on the shelf for 20 odd years they are then brought into service.

The internal seals have also not moved for the same period of time and must have deteriorated then “priming” causes further damage by movement.

I think we all know about LS400 bonnet struts loosing pressure over time and I would think the same applies here. 

[Malc1]

on a similar poor life Lexus “ new “ product 

I used to buy the premium priced quality OEM Toyota Main Dealer stores wiper blades …… they lasted about 4 years , 30/40k miles  THEN the last set I bought, brand new wrap packed out of the Stores, barely lasted a 12 month …….. poor shelf life eh 🤔

Always buy “ ordinary “ ones now …… for my 3 cars ! ….. they generally last ok up to their 2nd MOT 

Malc 

[Razor61]

3 hours ago, steve2006 said:

The replacements are going to be “New old stock” so having been stuck on the shelf for 20 odd years they are then brought into service.

The internal seals have also not moved for the same period of time and must have deteriorated then “priming” causes further damage by movement.

I think we all know about LS400 bonnet struts loosing pressure over time and I would think the same applies here. 

That is my suspicion/gut instinct, there should be a date stamp on the shock so will have a look. The front right shock definitely feels like the gas has gone and oil has leaked out as well.
If this is true, what about the other 3 x new Lexus shocks on the car? The rears seem ok and cured the bouncy ride but was that because they are also 'old stock' and not working as they should.
I may jack up each corner and check for the date stamps on all the shocks when get home.
If this cannot be solved by Lexus, and it may not be solvable due to 'brand new, newly made' shocks not available anymore, I'll get all my money back for the fronts and rears if possible then try the Gabriel Ultra Ready Mount stuff or another make.
 

[Razor61]

I had a look at the second knackered new shock earlier, jacked up the front right and removed the wheel.
Toyota part number is 48510-50111 which is a puzzle and it says on it ‘JL 18’ which is maybe the date code  - July 2018

[ambermarine]

The Manufacturer of the shocks will recommend a shelf life before any supply chain is established. Under the( just in time) policy of parts supply at most Japanese car companies the components are supplied on a sevicible life estimate relative to the vehicles manufactured that use the component.

The issue with these components is durability of shelf life and the ability of the various parts to stand the non use and drying out process as a consequense of non use.

The parts have been paid  for by the car manufacturer so they are reluctant to dump the parts  if  they are passed their sell by date so the recipent is the test bed and a suck it and see scenario comes into play.

I suppose anyone with a classic car of modern vintage is going to become susceptible to these anomolies because the more modern classics are a lot more sophisticated than the pre 1980s models.

[BigBoomer]

It's one of the reasons why using refurbished struts may be a better bet. More recent "manufacture" and testing.
That said, I suspect Toyota may have changed their suppliers over the years so those 2018 manufactured struts are almost certainly not made by the same company who made the original.
I may soon need to replace one of the front air-struts on my LS430 as it is misting and starting to chatter over bumps and I won't be paying Lexus prices for OEM parts.
The car is 20 years old and won't last another 20, so refurbished struts it is.

[Malc1]

1 hour ago, BigBoomer said:

It's one of the reasons why using refurbished struts may be a better bet. More recent "manufacture" and testing.
That said, I suspect Toyota may have changed their suppliers over the years so those 2018 manufactured struts are almost certainly not made by the same company who made the original.
I may soon need to replace one of the front air-struts on my LS430 as it is misting and starting to chatter over bumps and I won't be paying Lexus prices for OEM parts.
The car is 20 years old and won't last another 20, so refurbished struts it is.

BUT BUT BUT …….. I’m expecting my 91 Ls400 to last at least another 20 years  🤔

Malc 

[BigBoomer]

21 hours ago, Malc1 said:

BUT BUT BUT …….. I’m expecting my 91 Ls400 to last at least another 20 years  🤔

Malc 

Relax Malc, I meant MY car won't last another 20 years. 
That said the chances of me still being alive, let alone still driving at 81 are pretty slim too.

[Razor61]

Third time lucky and the 3rd new shock absorber is ok, back to a smooth ride without 'knackered' shock absorber sounds.
I have to say though, I'm not convinced the new OE shocks that have been fitted all round will last as long as the originals.

The originals were knackered/past their best/wallowing like a boat after 25 years and 100,000 miles but didn't make any noises and no signs of leaking that I could see.
To be expected and is normal that the shocks were done after 25 years and 100,000, I guess they would have been the same and probably not got any worse after another 150,000 miles so 250,000 in total but they would still be knackered/past their best/wallowing like a boat.

[Malc1]

3 hours ago, Razor61 said:

wallowing like a boat.

it's not actually a bad feeling ............ guessing mine might need changing but atm they ride superbly nicely comfy'illy even  ..   ( 249500 miles today ) 🙃

Malc 

[Mikaelse]

On 5/1/2024 at 11:09 AM, ambermarine said:

The Manufacturer of the shocks will recommend a shelf life before any supply chain is established. Under the( just in time) policy of parts supply at most Japanese car companies the components are supplied on a sevicible life estimate relative to the vehicles manufactured that use the component.

The issue with these components is durability of shelf life and the ability of the various parts to stand the non use and drying out process as a consequense of non use.

The parts have been paid  for by the car manufacturer so they are reluctant to dump the parts  if  they are passed their sell by date so the recipent is the test bed and a suck it and see scenario comes into play.

I suppose anyone with a classic car of modern vintage is going to become susceptible to these anomolies because the more modern classics are a lot more sophisticated than the pre 1980s models.

Hmm. I have had cars of different makes for 40+ years now and never needed to change schockabsorbers. (Lucky) Only some broken spring due to age. Well. 
So I am no expert on these...However at work we design in gaspressure filled struts sometimes in machines.

These simplified has a compartment with gas and oil. The comparment has a seal to the moving rod that seals in gas and oil with a seal running against the rod. it is important that the position of such struts is arranged so that the seal is submerged in oil and not exposed directly to the gas when in normal use if at all possible.
It is then reasonably also important that the strut is stored correctly when in stock. If it is lying flat or wrong side up it may have the seal partly exposed to the pressurized gas and it will leak out much faster. 
I would not be surprised if very old stock have expired and also been moved around and been stored i non stable environment etc for some of the time. A gamble to buy new old stock of this type.
My LS400 shocks are all fine after 25++ years (luck). Although have had to change springs once in the rear due to breakage of one due to rust.  Also disassemble the front and put in more rubber cushion on top end of the spring there. Had expired down to very thin...

 

 

[Malc1]

So it’s the likely storage method over time that causes “ new “ old stock to be decrepit when sold  🤔

Makes a lot of sense for sure 👍

Malc