Before you buy an EV!!!

[Barry14UK]

I have read this from several sources and I have just linked to one.  It concerns an aspect that many would not think about, but perhaps they should.

 

 

[GMB]

Bonkers innit!  When markets are distorted by special pricing and subsidies they always fail when reality strikes. Thank goodness I have my old fashioned petrol engined vehicles and the only Battery is the old 12v dinosaur under the bonnet.

[eric skerritt]

Youtuber has a 3 year old porsche taycan (electric) and paid over £100k new. Went back to the same main porsche dealer as he fancied a

p/x against a new 911. 

'Sorry sir we have too many Taycans in stock we can't sell so no we won't take a p/x'. On enquiring if they could how much would his car be worth 'around £42K sir'.

When asked what would happen if his Battery fails 'well that would be £42k plus £7k labour' Do the maths on that one.

 

[Malc1]

interesting, I'm reading somewhere recently, that Tata / Range Rover have developed a secondary use for defunct EV batteries by using banks of them for effective ( solar ? )  power source banks for homes whatever ......... At least EVs will have some use when they're all dead and being scrapped .........  anytime soon maybe  😉

No doubt someone here will happily correct me on this ! 

Also reading the piling high of EVs at docks and ports globally where they're being effectively stored coz no dealers want to buy them for stock holding and not being able to shift them to retail punters  .................. 

Possibly not much demand for 2ndhand EVs, even Porsche 😂  in the Gobi or Sahara or indeed anywhere in Africa much where all good used cars go for their true end-of-life .........  next life 

Malc

[Guest]

I'll never buy one. I'd sooner quit driving, and pick up an electric bicycle and then 'hire a car' from Enterprise for road trips once a month..  It's a poor, poor personal financial investment. Sure enough, if an engine was 'one sealed unit', which when damaged or goes wrong, was a £12,000+ single cost replacement option, so would any other 'normal car', even cheap ones. 

Then there's the whole... if the power station isn't using clean energy, then is your EV any greener? Only advantage is cleaner air around it. But that's all good and well if the whole queue of traffic inner-city are all EV's, cleaner air, but that one old beat up VW Passat, with the black suit all around its exhaust pumping out diesel fumes will still ruin everybody's experience and pollute the air. 

Thankfully, the car companies and even governments are rolling back on their extremist plans to switch entire company strategies and legislation over to 'EV' forced ownership so soon, hopefully forever. Turns out, a lot of them had to lose a lot of money from their own pockets in missed sales projections and owner backlash before they cared - who'd have thought?! 

Hyundai / Kia are an AWFUL brand. Don't be fooled. Sure, they are getting drastically better with each generation, but the quality in their engineering is lacking and despite making cars that look modern, have all the amenities (for a lower cost!) and surface level look and feel fine to use, they fall apart within the warranty period. And that '7 year warranty' doesn't cover even half of what your average Ford / VW / Toyota new car warranty covers. All a marketing ploy. Avoid like the plague. The only thing worse is the modern 'MG' and the likes, who in comparison, make Hyundai look like Lexus!  Deep breath..  

[Malc1]

I’m presuming the occasional ULEZ fee I pay to Sadiq Khan for driving my nigh exhaust free Ls400s in London penal areas does actually go to “ air purification” in some way 🤔

Malc

[dutchie01]

10 hours ago, Malc1 said:

 

Also reading the piling high of EVs at docks and ports globally where they're being effectively stored coz no dealers want to buy them for stock holding and not being able to shift them to retail punters  .................. 

Possibly not much demand for 2ndhand EVs, even Porsche 😂  

Malc

European ports are completely full with Chinese EVs. Hamburg, Zeebrugge, Antwerp, Rotterdam and so on. Previously cars were unloaded and then disappeared to the end customers mostly through dealers. The Chinese have a different approach they just use those ports as storage area. Some cars have been there for 1.5 yrs. Chinese manufacturers get paid per car by the Chinese government so keep producing my friends happy days and who cares if nobody buys them ?!

Demand for 2nd hand ones is very low out of consumer fear. What are you buying? what is the state of the Battery? High electricity prices make EVs as expensive as petrolcars? In most countries you pay roadtax based on weight and that is much higher with a Battery? How about value will they continue depreciating like crazy? From the model you are interested in for sure there will be newer versions withmore range faster charging so why buy this one? In short there are too many uncertainties for private buyers. Like before the market is driven by companycars only.

[Greisingel]

2 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

European ports are completely full with Chinese EVs. Hamburg, Zeebrugge, Antwerp, Rotterdam and so on. Previously cars were unloaded and then disappeared to the end customers mostly through dealers. The Chinese have a different approach they just use those ports as storage area. Some cars have been there for 1.5 yrs. Chinese manufacturers get paid per car by the Chinese government so keep producing my friends happy days and who cares if nobody buys them ?!

Demand for 2nd hand ones is very low out of consumer fear. What are you buying? what is the state of the battery? High electricity prices make EVs as expensive as petrolcars? In most countries you pay roadtax based on weight and that is much higher with a battery? How about value will they continue depreciating like crazy? From the model you are interested in for sure there will be newer versions withmore range faster charging so why buy this one? In short there are too many uncertainties for private buyers. Like before the market is driven by companycars only.

Make no mistake the elitist powers to be will enforce EV market through by a gradual though quite quick penalising of ICE ownership. One way or another. The EV market may look f***** now but these manipulators will not be giving up even if it means blatantly lying about CO2 or failing to mention the devastation to the environment of EV production (eg lithium mining, ridiculously incapable grid charging capacity)

[Malc1]

Then there’s Hydrogen Power of course and for which there is some considerable movement in EU and UK wide HGV and Bus use 👍

Malc 

[Ken R]

21 hours ago, CT200NI said:

 

Hyundai / Kia are an AWFUL brand. Don't be fooled. Sure, they are getting drastically better with each generation, but the quality in their engineering is lacking and despite making cars that look modern, have all the amenities (for a lower cost!) and surface level look and feel fine to use, they fall apart within the warranty period. And that '7 year warranty' doesn't cover even half of what your average Ford / VW / Toyota new car warranty covers. All a marketing ploy. Avoid like the plague. The only thing worse is the modern 'MG' and the likes, who in comparison, make Hyundai look like Lexus!  Deep breath..  

Whilst I align with your sentiments regarding MG I don't agree that Hyundai/Kia are "AWFUL". Ten years ago that may have been the case but the range of cars that they produce today are at the cutting edge in terms of design and recognised as such by the car buying public who are seeking  above all, reliability and value for money. I have driven various Kia models from the Picanto to the EV6 and have been impressed by the quality. Indeed I came close to purchasing a EV6 to replace my Lexus NX300h two years ago but range issues eventually overtook my enthusiasm for what I considered to be a superb car that was almost on par with Lexus in terms of build quality.

[Malc1]

Kia I’m understanding some years ago had a poor reliability record necessitating an extraordinary 7 year warranty 

Fact is now I believe that the 7 year warranty is rarely needed by buyers ……. Indeed I have pushed my senior guy in Delhi to have his company 7 seater petrol SUV ……. Kia …… for reliability, cost, prestige even  etc 

The option alternative being a Maruti Suzuki model of some sort 🤔

Malc 

[Tickedon]

2 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Kia I’m understanding some years ago had a poor reliability record necessitating an extraordinary 7 year warranty 

Fact is now I believe that the 7 year warranty is rarely needed by buyers ……. Indeed I have pushed my senior guy in Delhi to have his company 7 seater petrol SUV ……. Kia …… for reliability, cost, prestige even  etc 

 

Some owners are having to make considerable use of the warranty - Google “kia mild hybrid tensioner” - due to an engine that seems to have a reoccurring and very expensive fault. Sadly many vehicles have been off the roads for several months waiting for the parts as well. It hasn’t been a positive experience for them.

3 hours ago, Ken R said:

Whilst I align with your sentiments regarding MG I don't agree that Hyundai/Kia are "AWFUL". Ten years ago that may have been the case but the range of cars that they produce today are at the cutting edge in terms of design and recognised as such by the car buying public who are seeking  above all, reliability and value for money. I have driven various Kia models from the Picanto to the EV6 and have been impressed by the quality. Indeed I came close to purchasing a EV6 to replace my Lexus NX300h two years ago but range issues eventually overtook my enthusiasm for what I considered to be a superb car that was almost on par with Lexus in terms of build quality.

Excepting the engine issue, I would tend to agree with this… except probably not the Picanto. I drove one when my partner was looking for a small car… absolutely awful thing and engine. Only thing worse was probably the Honda Jazz. Went for a 2 year old Yaris in the end…  The rest of the Kia range seems pretty good though from what I’ve experienced. 

Kia have also shown that they can build good EVs - and we have to be honest that the EV6 is a much more realistic EV proposition (with a real world range of 300 ish miles) than the Lexus UXe and RZ with their very limited ranges (170-200ish).

[Malc1]

Ah yes ……. I’m appeased ……. I did insist he bought a conventional Kia petrol “ old fashioned” well proven monster of the 7 seater SUV ……. it hardly goes anywhere tbh …… his driver hire costs his business about £7.50 a day for a go anywhere 24hr chauffeur ( with rests of course 😄)

one of the joys of India living 

Malc 

[Ken R]

3 hours ago, Tickedon said:

 

Excepting the engine issue, I would tend to agree with this… except probably not the Picanto. I drove one when my partner was looking for a small car… absolutely awful thing and engine. Only thing worse was probably the Honda Jazz. Went for a 2 year old Yaris in the end…  The rest of the Kia range seems pretty good though from what I’ve experienced. 

My recent experience of driving a Picanto GTLine S 1.0 Turbo was that I was hugely impressed! Having regularly driven a VW UP! over a number of years the Kia felt a more solid and quieter car which was far better equipped than the equivalent top model UP!. Personally think the only weakness in the Kia line-up is the Rio.

[javadude]

4 hours ago, Tickedon said:

Kia have also shown that they can build good EVs - and we have to be honest that the EV6 is a much more realistic EV proposition (with a real world range of 300 ish miles) than the Lexus UXe and RZ with their very limited ranges (170-200ish).

The Kia e-Niro I test drove was very nice. Better than my NX. And the EV6 might be my next car if Lexus haven't got their act together on EVs by then. 

[First_Lexus]

5 hours ago, Tickedon said:

Excepting the engine issue, I would tend to agree with this… except probably not the Picanto. I drove one when my partner was looking for a small car… absolutely awful thing and engine. Only thing worse was probably the Honda Jazz. Went for a 2 year old Yaris in the end…

Fascinating. When I was considering a downsize recently I was very unimpressed by the Yaris but thought the Jazz was superb…😆…it just felt like a higher quality product to me, nicer to drive too. 

Back to EVs I’m pretty sure that the future will be almost entirely lease / contract driven for electric vehicles much like most people have mobile telephone contracts. What that means for older EVs and those drivers not in a position or not wanting to have such a contract is anybody’s guess. I’d say unlike now where older petrol and diesel cars are readily available at reasonable prices, there will be a hole that needs to be filled with far better public transport options.

[Shahpor]

Considering the cars I currently own, I might be a little bias 🙂

Having said that, what people have said regarding Kia so far in response to the original post pretty much sums up my feeling on the matter.

My wife loves her EV6 and I must say I am very impressed as well. As an EV it also suits our requirements well with a good range.

Our last 4 cars have been Kia's and they have all been faultless (or at least the issues have been dealt with by the dealer in a very satisfactory manner).

I also agree with @Ken R regarding the Picanto.  I had the exact same GT Line S spec as a loan car for a couple of days and it was great fun!

[GMB]

Kia s are decent cars like a lot of others, they have had their issues but Kia seem to be able to sort it, although I would not say no to the 3.3 Stinger GT. Our old 2010  140,000 mile Kia ( given away ) is still going strong and has been totally reliable.

[Shahpor]

1 minute ago, GMB said:

Kia s are decent cars like a lot of others, they have had their issues but Kia seem to be able to sort it, although I would not say no to the 3.3 Stinger GT. Our old 2010  140,000 mile Kia ( given away ) is still going strong and has been totally reliable.

Waylands Kia in Reading are getting an Orange Stinger in soon if you are interested 🙂 2022, 5000 miles, £35k ish I believe.

[GMB]

1 minute ago, Shahpor said:

I also agree with @Ken R regarding the Picanto.  I had the exact same GT Line S spec as a loan car for a couple of days and it was great fun!

We were actually going to buy one ( the GT ) until the dealer tried a dirty trick on us and we walked out of the showroom. We bought an UP Gti instead ( that was a can of worms )  - We should have got the Kia but as said the sales manager was as genuine as a nine bob note and we could not have any dealings with someone like that.

[GMB]

10 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Waylands Kia in Reading are getting an Orange Stinger in soon if you are interested 🙂 2022, 5000 miles, £35k ish I believe.

I think they are going up in price since we last looked to buy one ( under £30K at the time about 18 months/2yrs ago )  - but certainly a great car - I can't afford one at the moment😭😞 

Apparently they are going to bring out an even faster electric stinger GT but I would rather have the old petrol one. "It's not what you do it's the way that you do it"  springs to mind

[Shahpor]

2 minutes ago, GMB said:

I think they are going up in price since we last looked to buy one ( under £30K at the time about 18 months/2yrs ago )  - but certainly a great car - I can't afford one at the moment😭😞 

The prices seem to have plateaued at the moment but I'm sure they will get a little cheaper in time.

I certainly recommend getting one if you do manage to get the chance 👍  (just don't look at your running costs too closely...😀)

[GMB]

Understood!  tell me about it  --   I also have an isF!  Just tax and insurance make me weep.

[GMB]

Just FYI all petrol performance car owners. I have just filled up with Shell V-power  £1.699 per litre!  The thing that puzzled me was the fact that the staff were not wearing masks or balaclavas.🤔🤠.

[eric skerritt]

Regarding MG.

Had previously leased cars for my wife, the last one being a Mazda CX5. When the rental term came to an end during the latter days of Covid and when any 2nd hand car was fetching silly money the only new car (apart from a Hyundai i10) was a solitary top range MGZS auto on PCP with 0%.

So either do without or go for the MG. So some years later it's still here having covered less than 6k miles and it's not a bad car.The steering is precise, the sat nav and heated seats are good, it's shod with Michelins and has been reliable.

Will I pay the £9.5k option to buy? I really don't know. But as a cheapish runaround it's been fine.