Thoughts on possible 12v Battery issues with LBX

[EEH]

I am in the process of selling my 2022 Toyota Yaris Hybrid Excel model (bought Nov 2022) as I have had so many issues with the car not starting. Roadside assist call outs and now purchased own jump start back up Battery. I know this is a hot topic and a big issue for many Toyota Yaris/Cross owners, but looking at upgrading to Lexus LBX.

I am concerned I will have the same issues buying the LBX? After all the running gear is shared with Yaris/Yaris Cross in terms of tech. Sorry No technical guru and welcome to correct. My biggest concern is the top of the range model Im looking at has a load more features on it than the Yaris which could be more draining to the 12v Battery and flatten it quicker? Not all of us drive long distances and on motorways to charge the 12v Battery as Toyota suggests or now have to install trickle charges or connect small solar panels to keep the Battery fully charged and functional.

Is this just another case of "frying pan into the fire" and rather stay away from the hybrid tech offered by Toyota and Lexus, or do you think as the Luxury division of Toyota, they would handle it different?

Appreciate any thoughts

 

 

[PaulWhitt20]

Welcome to the forum.

I don’t see why the LBX would be any different to the Yaris. Possibly worse as there may be more features draining the Battery e.g keyless entry. 
 

All cars will suffer from Battery drain if not used for long periods. How often do you drive and how far? 
 

[EEH]

Thanks Paul. It's what I thought too as my current Yaris has keyless entry as well which the Lexus has too and with added features like remote front windscreen heating, two stage steering wheel heating etc. So more things to drain the 12v quicker. Its that bad that I don't even use my interior lights anymore or steering wheel function or seat heating in winter in my Yaris, all to preserve charge.

I use the car at least 3x a week, but its for shorter runs to the office and school but no long motorway driving which I believe all Toyota/Lexus hybrids need to charge the 12v Battery properly. Was told by my local Toyota mechanic even leaving the car in "ready" mode charges but very slowly, so even an hour doing this is not sufficient. 

I sadly think I have my answer.... would have LOVED to buy the LBX but it won't suite my driving lifestyle. 

Think is something the LBX community should be aware of too if you don't drive that much.

[stepppy]

When I had my Prius my commute was only a total of 6 urban miles a day and I never had any issues with the 12v Battery. I too had keyless entry and I just used the car as I wanted to without any thought about things draining the Battery. 

I sold the car a couple of weeks ago and it still had the original Battery from new at seven years old  

The only time I would take precautions was going on holiday and then would connect my smart charger and have it come on twice a week for 8 hours at a time which worked perfectly for me. 

it seems odd that some people have issues and others do not 🤔

 

[PaulWhitt20]

Have you had the Yaris checked over by Toyota? This does sound abnormal if you are only leaving the car for a few days between usage. 
 

Things to remember. Assuming the Yaris is like a Toyota/Lexus hybrid

Don’t use the heated seats/steering wheel when the car is not in ready mode

Don’t use Neutral

Don’t use the radio when not in ready mode

Don’t pre heat the car when not in ready mode

In fact don’t use anything electrical when not in ready mode. 
 

 

[stepppy]

45 minutes ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

… In fact don’t use anything electrical when not in ready mode. 
 

 

I think that is the best bit of advice to anyone, especially if they are new to Hybrids although the OP is already in the ‘family’ 🙂

[EEH]

Thanks for the advice and info Stephen and Paul. Appreciated. Stephen you are so lucky with your Prius, only wish it was a the same my side.

I have had the car checked out with Toyota and they say nothing is wrong with the Battery, just needs to be driven on longer drives to charge it properly. I am even scared to use heated seats, steering wheel and interior lights at any stage, not even when the car is in "ready mode"

Still think the LBX is an awesome car, but I am sadly not able to put my car on a trickle charger or solar charger.

[ColinBarber]

19 minutes ago, EEH said:

I have had the car checked out with Toyota and they say nothing is wrong with the battery, just needs to be driven on longer drives to charge it properly. I am even scared to use heated seats, steering wheel and interior lights at any stage, not even when the car is in "ready mode"

You shouldn't use heated seats or steering wheel or any in fact even the radio when it isn't in Ready mode. Once it is in Ready Mode then it makes no difference what you switch on as the power is coming from the hybrid system, not the 12v Battery.

 

4 hours ago, EEH said:

Was told by my local Toyota mechanic even leaving the car in "ready" mode charges but very slowly, so even an hour doing this is not sufficient. 

It charges at around 5 to 8 amps. It makes no difference if the vehicle is just sat in Ready mode or being driven. 

 

15 hours ago, EEH said:

My biggest concern is the top of the range model Im looking at has a load more features on it than the Yaris which could be more draining to the 12v Battery and flatten it quicker?

This isn't an issue. The vehicle is able to generate 100+ amps @ 12v from the hybrid system. With less that 10 amps going to charging the 12v Battery, you have more than enough to use all the features of the vehicle.

 

 

If you are using your vehicle daily then it doesn't really matter on the journey length, you just need around 1 to 2 hours of the vehicle being in Ready mode per week. As you potentially use it less than that then you may experience the same issues and your Yaris. Make sure your key isn't left near the vehicle (e.g. by the front door with the vehicle on the driveway) as if the two can communicate with each other it can cause the Battery to discharge faster. You could also consider disabling smart entry completely from the vehicle's menu which would help and also prevent the possibility of a relay attack theft.

[EEH]

appreciate the input Colin thx! Good suggestion re key and comms issue and theft. Let's hope it's not too difficult to do so. 

[Don C]

There’s a big difference between the Yaris and the LBX.  To comply with EC manufacturing legislation, the Battery for the Yaris is sourced in Europe from Mutlu in Turkey and they are known to have a performance issue.  The Battery in the LBX is sourced in Japan, probably from Yuasa but they do use ND and Panasonic.   These are top notch batteries and don’t suffer the same as Mutlu.  If you charge a Mutlu overnight it will test ok even when it isn’t.  

[cur666]

8 hours ago, Don C said:

There’s a big difference between the Yaris and the LBX.  To comply with EC manufacturing legislation, the battery for the Yaris is sourced in Europe from Mutlu in Turkey and they are known to have a performance issue.  The battery in the LBX is sourced in Japan, probably from Yuasa but they do use ND and Panasonic.   These are top notch batteries and don’t suffer the same as Mutlu.  If you charge a Mutlu overnight it will test ok even when it isn’t.  

Türkiye isn't part of the European Union ?

[GMB]

 

46 minutes ago, cur666 said:

Türkiye isn't part of the European Union ?

My twopennysworth - - Turkey is a nice place to go for a holiday but you would not want to live in such a place. They also buy Russian oil cheap and manufacture/export cheap dodgy products sometimes, also have a chequered history of dubious alliances.  But, hey, who am I to judge? The people I have met there have been lovely friendly folk.

 

Quote US news:  E.U. diplomats believe Turkey is highly unlikely to join the E.U. anytime soon, if ever, saying the country’s standards on the rule of law and respect for human rights have worsened in recent years.

Turkey’s hostile relations with its neighbors Greece and Cyprus, both E.U. members, are another major problem. While both countries are NATO members, Turkish officials, including Mr. Erdogan himself, frequently question their common borders and say Turkey is entitled to more territory, to Greece’s outrage.

Interesting question to ponder - when Turkey invaded Cyprus and took half of it why did NATO and the EU not intervene at the time?  Clue - think Greek political chaos, maybe.  Google "Greek coup d'état and Turkish invasion"

Turkey will not accept a one-state solution for Cyprus and a “little flare-up” on the divided island could spark a conflict similar to those in Gaza and Ukraine, the leader of the breakaway north has warned ahead of a meeting with the head of the UN.

A mistake or misunderstanding such as the shooting of a Turkish soldier on the Green Line that divides the two sides would provoke “a bomb” between the two populations, who have been at loggerheads for decades, said Ersin Tatar.

[Tickedon]

1 hour ago, cur666 said:

Türkiye isn't part of the European Union ?

They have a strange customs union with the EU, so in theory their products could count as “EU” depending on how the other regulations are written.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union–Turkey_Customs_Union

[ColinBarber]

Either way, it’s not as if Lexus owners don’t suffer Battery issues if the car isn’t used much. We have hundreds of examples on these forums. 

[Don C]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

Either way, it’s not as if Lexus owners don’t suffer battery issues if the car isn’t used much. We have hundreds of examples on these forums. 

Battery problems are usually associated with low use and moreover following covid.  We see this in our own little world but it applies to all brands.   There was a definite problem with the Mutlu batteries but that may have been addressed in production.   Time will tell.  

[EEH]

Hello everyone.

I was hoping this would not be the case for the LBX, but as a more folk have received their new cars, I am already starting to see a few concerns starting to pop up across the world about the dreaded 12v Battery issues. Seems like when it flat or has an issue there is a lot more that can and will go wrong on the LBX.  

Not reassuring at all and while I realise it may be vehicle specific and due to many factor etc, this does not leave many with confidence. Despite all of this I have placed my order for the Top spec model but now getting nervous as I am sure going to land up in a similar place. Fingers crossed it won't.

Edited May 20 by ColinBarber
Removed link at request of owner

[Icebun]

I was wondering, should there be ever a need to jump start the LBX, how would this be done?

It is like the Yaris, where you can get access to the terminals via the fuse box or is that the 12v Battery itself is under the bonnet?

Got confused when I saw a comment about the Battery being under the rear seats.

[EEH]

Exactly the same as the Yaris as it in essence shares the same tech as the Yaris and Yaris Cross, so access to jump start would be via the fuse box area under the bonnet where you locate the red positive terminal and then connect to a negative to a point on engine bay (as per owners manual). 

The 12v Battery is located under the rear seat next to the high voltage NiMH traction Battery and not in the engine bay like normal cars or in the boot.

[Shufman]

I’d be tempted to start it every few days either manually or by the app but I use mine every day so never had an issue. 

[EEH]

On 6/15/2024 at 8:18 AM, Shufman said:

I’d be tempted to start it every few days either manually or by the app but I use mine every day so never had an issue. 

Hi Ian, totally agree. Best not to leave the car standing for long periods and not being driven to ensure the Battery is charged either while driving or letting the traction Battery charge the 12v Battery while the car is in "ready" mode 

[Amanda76]

I’m another Yaris Cross Excel owner, interested in the LBX.  Lexus have taken one to my local garden centre this weekend, and I happened to visit today.  Lovely looking car!

Unfortunately, the drivers door couldn’t be opened (Takumi with smart entry), as the Battery was flat….  splendid first impression!

Equally unfortunately, the ‘salesman” tried to tell me it was because his colleague hadn’t charged the car beforehand.  Double d’oh! I would have thought Lexus would at least display a car with a representative that knew anything about the car whatsoever! 

[EEH]

8 hours ago, Amanda76 said:

I’m another Yaris Cross Excel owner, interested in the LBX.  Lexus have taken one to my local garden centre this weekend, and I happened to visit today.  Lovely looking car!

Unfortunately, the drivers door couldn’t be opened (Takumi with smart entry), as the battery was flat….  splendid first impression!

Equally unfortunately, the ‘salesman” tried to tell me it was because his colleague hadn’t charged the car beforehand.  Double d’oh! I would have thought Lexus would at least display a car with a representative that knew anything about the car whatsoever! 

As you say, not the best way to make a first impression on a prospective buyer. The brand should know that when a car is on display and open to public viewing, people will want to try and test all the car has to offer to make an informed purchasing decision, all of which is very draining on the 12v Battery. They should have had the 12v Battery on a charger.  

In fairness this would have happened to any car if they had not done this without charging the 12v Battery during the display period. 

 

[Shufman]

As long as you don’t leave the ignition on and use it every week, you’ll have no problems. 
 

If I’m waiting for someone I just start it in READY mode 

[Lbeex]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:47 AM, ColinBarber said:

 

On 4/2/2024 at 6:59 AM, EEH said:

Was told by my local Toyota mechanic even leaving the car in "ready" mode charges but very slowly, so even an hour doing this is not sufficient. 

It charges at around 5 to 8 amps. It makes no difference if the vehicle is just sat in Ready mode or being driven. 

 

Correct, and it agrees with my measurement of 12 V Battery voltage in Ready mode which showed 14.7 V,  hence possible for 12V Battery only during charging. The car was in underground garage with lights on.

It also means that measuring voltage in Ready mode is not conclusive in terms of 12V Battery charge. So the only way is to open the engine hood and measure at the fuse box not in ready mode.

[EEH]

23 hours ago, Lbeex said:

Correct, and it agrees with my measurement of 12 V battery voltage in Ready mode which showed 14.7 V,  hence possible for 12V battery only during charging. The car was in underground garage with lights on.

It also means that measuring voltage in Ready mode is not conclusive in terms of 12V battery charge. So the only way is to open the engine hood and measure at the fuse box not in ready mode.

Hi Leszek, interesting feedback on your voltage findings and does confirm the concern I have always had regarding "Ready" mode. Suppose once again only time will tell from my experience and will keep all posted