ES 300h - Update this Year?

[Calba1263]

Is there any news of an update to the ES 300h this year, perhaps along the lines of the 5th generation hybrid system, for example, that the UX is getting in its change from 250h to 300h, or is there unlikely to be any significant changes to the ES until the 8th generation model is launched (whenever that might be?)?

[Julncamp54]

There are shots of possible ES 2024 /2025 models if u go to google and Lexus US

[Calba1263]

Lexus website now shows 3 grades for the ES - Premium, Premium Plus and Takumi; The Premium is £3595 more expensive than the Premium Edition it seemingly replaces - so far* there doesn't seem to be anything to suggest an improved spec., so is it just a massive price increase?

(*it also says that their finance offers are being updated, so perhaps the ES page is a work in progress...?)

[peniole]

That is quite a price jump and pushes all grades of the ES into the luxury tax paying category.

[Tickedon]

16 minutes ago, peniole said:

That is quite a price jump and pushes all grades of the ES into the luxury tax paying category.

The Premium Edition had been kept artificially low for more than two years , presumably to stay below the £40k luxury VED ceiling as long as possible - while nearly every other Lexus model has seen jumps of £4-5k, the ES Premium Edition only moved from £39.3k (plus cost of metallic paint) to £40k (with free paint!). The other ES trims kept increasing in line with other Lexus models - e.g. ES Takumi has gone from £52k to £57k in two years. 

Sadly it seems Lexus UK has decided that’s no longer possible to maintain. So a large jump, yes, but really just catching up to where it should have been if not artificially kept low.

[Navnan2]

So glad I took delivery of my ES premium in January. I exchanged a UX premium Plus with a sunroof which was in the Luxury VED classification for this ES model and saved £395 a year tax AND that is going up shortly according to government sources. Like this model better too.

[peniole]

7 hours ago, Tickedon said:

The Premium Edition had been kept artificially low

Depends on how you define artifically low. The pricing was in line with it's pricing in the USA (after taking the 20% VAT into account and currency exhange rates). I know shock! It's just most auto companies are sure they can keep fleecing British motorists with above market pricing across the board. So now Lexus have brought the ES in line with the other fleecing models.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-dealership%2C-sales-and-marketing/uk-one-most-expensive-countries-buy-car-study-says

[Tickedon]

1 hour ago, peniole said:

Depends on how you define artifically low. The pricing was in line with it's pricing in the USA (after taking the 20% VAT into account and currency exhange rates). I know shock! It's just most auto companies are sure they can keep fleecing British motorists with above market pricing across the board. So now Lexus have brought the ES in line with the other fleecing models.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-dealership%2C-sales-and-marketing/uk-one-most-expensive-countries-buy-car-study-says

ES trim lines aren’t directly comparable UK vs US. The base ES hybrid 300h (US has non-hybrid models that are cheaper, due to lower government emissions requirements) starts at $44590 - this is less well specified than our Premium model - and works out at £42560 after VAT. £1000 less than the new UK ES starting price - if you add packages to make it equivalent, you’d be paying more in the USA. 

[peniole]

Actually the $44590 you are quoting is for the hybrid model in base trim. It's lower than that for non hybrids, they start at $42k. Also those prices include state taxes and destination charges. Let's assume destination charges are the same. Average state tax is 6%. So you need to take that off first before you multiply by the exchange rate and add our own vat. You'll come up £3.3k short to current uk prices, adding a 1.2k pounds tech package brings it in line with the premium here, and adds on top of it a heads up display, but you lose the heated steering wheel. You're still 2.1k worse off. Not bad in comparison to other manufacturers where the price difference is much higher, but worse off to when there was actual price parity on the ES.

You can add the last remaining package at 1.9k pound equivalent, get the heated steering wheel and add on top of our uk premium memory seats, auto folding and tilting mirrors as well as the parking assist, and still have 200 pounds left over.

[e-yes]

ICYMI … the total system output is now 245 HP !!! 
However no change to the 0-60 time.

Seems like the website is work-in-progress. I was hoping for the 245HP but was also expecting better performance with higher output.

 

[ColinBarber]

18 minutes ago, peniole said:

You're still 2.1k worse off. Not bad in comparison to other manufacturers where the price difference is much higher, but worse off to when there was actual price parity on the ES.

There is a 10% import tax into Europe/UK from Japan. The ES for the US market is manufactured there so no import tax. Shipping charges will also be more expensive to the UK. European/UK consumer laws also make it more expensive to do business that in the US.

Ultimately the price isn't based on cost of manufacture, it is based on what the market will bare.

[peniole]

10 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Ultimately the price isn't based on cost of manufacture, it is based on what the market will bare.

Exactly!

[peniole]

6 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Shipping charges will also be more expensive to the UK.

Correct, but usa destination charges have little to do with reality. Lexus us destination charges for the es were $1150 while uk destination charge is £700.

[peniole]

14 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

There is a 10% import tax into Europe/UK from Japan. The ES for the US market is manufactured there so no import tax.

Only half of us market es cars are built there last I checked. The factory doesn't have the capacity to cover the full market yet. So import charges still apply to some extent. Please correct me, my numbers are a few years old now.

Sorry can't figure out the multi quote function on my tablet.

[ColinBarber]

3 minutes ago, peniole said:

Correct, but usa destination charges have little to do with reality. Lexus us destination charges for the es were $1150 while uk destination charge is £700.

Understood but I'm referring to the £1,000 cost to Toyota per vehicle to put it on a RORO ship and take it from Japan to Bristol in addition to all the other charges.

[peniole]

4 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Understood but I'm referring to the £1,000 cost to Toyota per vehicle to put it on a RORO ship and take it from Japan to Bristol in addition to all the other charges.

Agreed, but that charge still applies to a percentage of us sold vehicles depending on factory capacity vs actual North American sales, doesn't it?

[ColinBarber]

2 minutes ago, peniole said:

Agreed, but that charge still applies to a percentage of us sold vehicles depending on factory capacity vs actual North American sales, doesn't it?

Yep, for the ones made in Japan - although duration/cost will be less.

[Tickedon]

16 hours ago, peniole said:

Actually the $44590 you are quoting is for the hybrid model in base trim. It's lower than that for non hybrids, they start at $42k. Also those prices include state taxes and destination charges. Let's assume destination charges are the same. Average state tax is 6%. So you need to take that off first before you multiply by the exchange rate and add our own vat. You'll come up £3.3k short to current uk prices, adding a 1.2k pounds tech package brings it in line with the premium here, and adds on top of it a heads up display, but you lose the heated steering wheel. You're still 2.1k worse off. Not bad in comparison to other manufacturers where the price difference is much higher, but worse off to when there was actual price parity on the ES.

 

I literally made that point. You cannot compare a 300h with a non-hybrid engine, that’s an entirely pointless comparison. The engine choice is largely dictated by environmental regulations, not wholly in control of manufacturers. There is also no sales tax included within the quoted MSRP prices on the Lexus US website, sales tax gets added on top depending on location, so I’m afraid your maths are entirely made up! 

[Ian J. Parsley]

Back to the topic, the answer would appear to be yes (as I currently have one on order).

What I know is that all should be revealed/confirmed mid/late May. I am aware of the potential for an AWD option (or even, potentially, that AWD will be standard).

Looking at the site, others have already noted the rise from 215hp to 245hp (though the car is definitely still FWD there). There is also now no F-Sport option, seemingly.

I have also spotted that the finance offer on the base model (now referred to just as "Premium" in the UK) specifies blade scan technology (for the auto-high beam), whereas IIRC the MY24 "Premium Edition" did not have that and indeed the current base model is still listed without it on the configurator.

So I suspect the price rise will include at least an element of higher spec and higher performance.

Are we also to assume this is the final year of this generation (the 7th of the ES worldwide)?

[ColinBarber]

8 hours ago, Ian J. Parsley said:

I am aware of the potential for an AWD option (or even, potentially, that AWD will be standard).

I doubt they would introduce such a major change outside of a new model or possible a facelift year. AWD itself has been available for some time on the ES in the US but not with a hybrid drivetrain.

[Ian J. Parsley]

On 4/12/2024 at 9:39 PM, ColinBarber said:

I doubt they would introduce such a major change outside of a new model or possible a facelift year. AWD itself has been available for some time on the ES in the US but not with a hybrid drivetrain.

The truth is there is nothing reliable out there about the 2025 ES at all; I would share your doubts, instinctively, but I note also that the 2025 Camry in North America is only available as CVT hybrid but has an AWD option.

[Shane13]

On 4/12/2024 at 1:25 PM, Ian J. Parsley said:

Back to the topic, the answer would appear to be yes (as I currently have one on order).

What I know is that all should be revealed/confirmed mid/late May. I am aware of the potential for an AWD option (or even, potentially, that AWD will be standard).

Looking at the site, others have already noted the rise from 215hp to 245hp (though the car is definitely still FWD there). There is also now no F-Sport option, seemingly.

I have also spotted that the finance offer on the base model (now referred to just as "Premium" in the UK) specifies blade scan technology (for the auto-high beam), whereas IIRC the MY24 "Premium Edition" did not have that and indeed the current base model is still listed without it on the configurator.

So I suspect the price rise will include at least an element of higher spec and higher performance.

Are we also to assume this is the final year of this generation (the 7th of the ES worldwide)?

Same here I have Premium Edition on order but struggling to find exact spec details.
Have you been given a UK arrival date. My info  is that it’s expected to arrive towards end of May which suggests a delivery date about 2nd week of June.

 

[Ian J. Parsley]

19 hours ago, Shane13 said:

Same here I have Premium Edition on order but struggling to find exact spec details.
Have you been given a UK arrival date. My info  is that it’s expected to arrive towards end of May which suggests a delivery date about 2nd week of June.

 

Funny, IIRC I could have had the old one this month. But when I said I was willing to hold (my current car's contract runs until end July), they said it may even be September and they'll just keep me in my current car until then. I don't know how helpful that is to you, as I've been clear with them I personally am in no hurry.

Apparently more information on the spec of the new version will come mid/late May.

[Ian J. Parsley]

After all that, there's no change even in the engine details (even though I thought I'd seen a change on the website).

I don't yet know about the spec; I'd imagine little change there either but will keep you informed when the car actually arrives!

[Nonamesausage]

8 hours ago, Ian J. Parsley said:

After all that, there's no change even in the engine details (even though I thought I'd seen a change on the website).

I don't yet know about the spec; I'd imagine little change there either but will keep you informed when the car actually arrives!

I have been following this thread as I have been interested in an ES but have been concerned by the performance figures. I was keen to see any and potential HP or torque upgrade. 
 

I could be wrong, but maybe you have seen the combined HP quote of the engine and electric system. From memory that is 245, however the system can’t use both like that at the same time so the actual HP available is 215. 
 

the Lexus website and car builder has had the latest specs up for a couple of weeks if that helps. It doesn’t look like a refresh or mini cycle, looks more like a minor equipment spec change.