Lexus Service Standard Drop

[Juicedrinker]

I just wondered if any other people are noticing that some Lexus dealers have been lowering their standards over the past few years.

They may be fine with a persons PCP finance car (as they are in most cases going to get it back to sell on again so will probably nurture it as its to their advantage) but how are private purchase people finding things?

Lexus have always tried to set themselves apart from other premium marques with their satisfaction scores / face to face dealings because lets face it in most cases they can not compete against the equivalent alternative marque offerings with far too limited engine choices and huge security / insurance problems for a start.

I bought a 4 year old very low mileage Lexus from a main dealer last May as was very satisfied with my dealership experience over the previous 12 years with two older / high mileage Lexus cars.  However the purchase of that 4 year old car last year was anything but smooth once they established I did not want it on PCP or HP, then issues with car on receipt that were hassle to get them to rectify.  I will soon have it due for annual service and MOT and am going to the dealer that used to always service my older Lexus cars.  Last year I had taken out a 3 year Lexus service and MOT plan with them and told them of a couple of concerns that I have, one minor and one potentialy major and they  were obstructive, the one that may become a major issue I accept has not actually physically completely broken yet but you can clearly tell there is something that needs addressing urgently (the noise and movement show there is a big issue) or it will fail completely at some point and not something you want to fail on a car.  They will not deal with it at all as said if it still works the fact that it is very noisy / clunky and temperamental in operation means that it still works and they will only deal with if it totally fails.  I cant believe that I have to put up with the noise above my head and worry about using the moonroof in a supposedly premium car that cost me £34,000 from a main dealer that started having issues at 19,000 miles and is only 23,000 now.  I also can't believe that they would rather it totally fail and then replace an expensive part rather than remedy / fix now and save future failure.  I guess it could be because most mechanics at dealerships are not actually proper mechanics at all and just parts replacers so they have no idea how to preserve or repair but only replace. 

I had COMPLETELY the opposite experience with a 6 year old BMW bought from a main dealer and a 5 year old Honda from a main dealer when issues occurred within the first year.  In fact with the BMW it wasn't even the cars fault it was my fiancees (at the time) feral kids and I told the dealer this and yet they / BMW replaced the parts (unbelievably!) under their approved car warranty as said a BMW should not have failure of components / should be hard wearing until at least 80,000 miles and the car had done 30,000. 

I know that they withdraw a few models from the UK market and major in USA and Japan and just wonder if maybe they will close their limited dealerships down and put inside other Toyota dealerships.

I was planning on sticking with Lexus long term but the past years experience has meant that I am now focused on moving away to another brand in the next two years and in fact may go for an older ICE car / away from hybrid next time and just get proper local mechanics / engineers that I know service / repair it.

 

 

 

 

[ColinBarber]

36 minutes ago, Juicedrinker said:

They will not deal with it at all as said if it still works the fact that it is very noisy / clunky and temperamental in operation means that it still works and they will only deal with if it totally fails.

Unfortunately this is on Toyota GB - they won't authorise the warranty repair, and therefore pay the dealer, unless it is a failed part.

There has been a steady decline in service for years/decades. I received excellent service over 20 years ago but these days it's a fight and disappointment to get anything done and their service prices make you feel ripped off. The positive is the cars are reliable so you don't have to experience poor dealer service very often.

[Ken R]

I haven’t noticed any apparent drop in standards by my dealership. Indeed I can't praise them highly enough.

[Juicedrinker]

21 hours ago, Ken R said:

I haven’t noticed any apparent drop in standards by my dealership. Indeed I can't praise them highly enough.

Thats good to hear, at least some are still ok then 

[HGUS]

It's hit and miss!  The previous dealership I bought a new Lexus from was great at the start however, in my opinion, their standards really dropped and I became very disappointed with them so bought my current new Lexus from another dealership.

[LenT]

On 3/5/2024 at 2:11 PM, ColinBarber said:

The positive is the cars are reliable so you don't have to experience poor dealer service very often.

Damning with faint praise, Colin!  😄

[LenT]

23 hours ago, Ken R said:

I haven’t noticed any apparent drop in standards by my dealership. Indeed I can't praise them highly enough.

That’s been my experience too, Ken.  And I don’t think the dealerships are connected.

[LenT]

On 3/5/2024 at 1:35 PM, Juicedrinker said:

However the purchase of that 4 year old car last year was anything but smooth once they established I did not want it on PCP or HP, then issues with car on receipt that were hassle to get them to rectify. 

Of course getting customers on to PCP or HP plans is a good earner for dealers.  So it’s prevalent industry wide.

When I was buying my Lexus I made it clear that I didn’t require any financing. However, that didn’t stop a staff member elbowing the sales rep aside to ask if he could introduce me to their Purchase Plan.  I said he could do that provided he clearly understood that I wasn’t going to use it

So we then had a perfectly affable fifteen minutes or so - right up to the point where he tried to close the sale and I said ‘No’.  His attitude then became distinctly icy and I had to remind him that I had made my position very clear from the start.

I haven’t seen him again and I accept that it can be a tough way to make a living.  My criticism is not that he tried, but that he was somewhat unpleasant when he failed - as he had been warned would happen.  Every other member of staff I’ve encountered has been exemplary.

[RXtoNX]

On 3/5/2024 at 7:23 PM, Ken R said:

I haven’t noticed any apparent drop in standards by my dealership. Indeed I can't praise them highly enough.

 

1 hour ago, LenT said:

That’s been my experience too, Ken.  And I don’t think the dealerships are connected.

Exactly my experience, it really does appear to be specific dealership dependent because I’ve heard negative comments about one other dealership operated by the same parent company

[ColinBarber]

I'm not really talking about individual dealer standards, more about Lexus as a brand and head office policies that the dealerships need to follow.

I think it was back in 2001 when I first purchased an approved used Lexus. Back then an independent RAC inspection had to be performed which found every stone chip and mark that had to be correctly before it could be sold, alloys refurbs, the next service carried out, tyres with minimum of 4mm or possibly 6mm of thread, full Lexus service history etc. Now an official used vehicle may not have full Lexus service history, it won't have the next service carried out unless it is due within 2,000 miles, bodywork damage is down to private negotiation with the typical attitude that it's a used car so there will be some stone chips, scratches and wheel scuffs.

Recalls once came with a bottle of Champagne as a sorry for inconvenience, now you might get some fuel if the dealer doesn't pocket that money (several people have posted here they have not received any fuel).

The move to centralised PDIs where cars are now handed over with over inflated tyres due to a lack of attention to detail.

Used warranties that over the years cover less and less, and owners having to fight harder to get things replaced - now with the attitude of having to wait for something that is clearly failing to get so severe that it causes a breakdown or MOT failure. The Relax warranty might be 'free' but in reality the servicing costs have increased substantially above inflation over years and the warranty dumbed down that you are paying for it, and with no advanced warranty available for people who want the additional cover.

Dealers reluctant to perform warranty work because head office won't pay them enough - the dealer is more profitable doing customer work and therefore prioritises it.

Major security vulnerabilities across multiple vehicles but with a very slow, inadequate response that only address a fraction of the vehicles affected.

GS F delaminating interior carbon trim pieces that Lexus in the UK blame on the owners and pretend it isn't a common issue, rather than acknowledging there is an issue affecting one of their most expensive vehicles  - and where Lexus in the US replace them under warranty.

[LenT]

6 hours ago, HGUS said:

The previous dealership I bought a new Lexus from was great at the start however, in my opinion, their standards really dropped and I became very disappointed with them so bought my current new Lexus from another dealership.

A perfect demonstration of consumer power, John.

Did you get the chance to point out to the Dealer Principal why they had lost your business?  It’s surprising how many Company Owners have little awareness of how their customers are actually being treated!

Some Companies can react positively to customer criticism; others not so much.  I think the problem that you and Colin have described has a lot to do with the internal division between Sales and Service.

With the former, customer relations are incentivised by sales commissions so nothing’s too much trouble.  But for the Service mechanic, the customer is often more of a pain and certainly not a person to be pandered to - even if they are actually allowed to come into contact with them.

I don’t think it’s by chance that I feel well treated by my Lexus Dealer - and that every Service has been accompanied by a video of the mechanic introducing himself and taking me through the service points.

Rather than just being an anonymous service monkey, it gives the mechanic a chance to take ownership of his work and to display his competence.  And that’s how you maintain high standards.

[HGUS]

3 hours ago, LenT said:

A perfect demonstration of consumer power, John.

Did you get the chance to point out to the Dealer Principal why they had lost your business?  It’s surprising how many Company Owners have little awareness of how their customers are actually being treated!

Some Companies can react positively to customer criticism; others not so much.  I think the problem that you and Colin have described has a lot to do with the internal division between Sales and Service.

With the former, customer relations are incentivised by sales commissions so nothing’s too much trouble.  But for the Service mechanic, the customer is often more of a pain and certainly not a person to be pandered to - even if they are actually allowed to come into contact with them.

I don’t think it’s by chance that I feel well treated by my Lexus Dealer - and that every Service has been accompanied by a video of the mechanic introducing himself and taking me through the service points.

Rather than just being an anonymous service monkey, it gives the mechanic a chance to take ownership of his work and to display his competence.  And that’s how you maintain high standards.

Yes.  However, paying so much for a new car and being loyal to the dealership by getting it regularly serviced, etc with them I felt I was just met with excuses regarding their substandard service.  Not what a customer of a luxury, or any, branded car wants to hear!  I have high standards and I expect them to as well.

[Phil xxkr]

12 hours ago, LenT said:

Of course getting customers on to PCP or HP plans is a good earner for dealers.  So it’s prevalent industry wide.

When I was buying my Lexus I made it clear that I didn’t require any financing. However, that didn’t stop a staff member elbowing the sales rep aside to ask if he could introduce me to their Purchase Plan.  I said he could do that provided he clearly understood that I wasn’t going to use it

So we then had a perfectly affable fifteen minutes or so - right up to the point where he tried to close the sale and I said ‘No’.  His attitude then became distinctly icy and I had to remind him that I had made my position very clear from the start.

I haven’t seen him again and I accept that it can be a tough way to make a living.  My criticism is not that he tried, but that he was somewhat unpleasant when he failed - as he had been warned would happen.  Every other member of staff I’ve encountered has been exemplary.

Sack the salesman I say 👏, what a waste of everyone's time and money! Yet another example of demonstrating misguided language claiming you are an entity referred to as a "customer" when in fact you are an impediment to their goals or a problem in other words! 

[LenT]

34 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

Yet another example of demonstrating misguided language claiming you are an entity referred to as a "customer" when in fact you are an impediment to their goals or a problem in other words! 

Sadly, so often the case.  There were times when I would commiserate with clients about how smoothly their businesses would run if only they didn’t have to deal with the Public.   

Invariably, the irony escaped them!

I would despair when presented with the Company’s Mission Statement.  So often a string of self-serving platitudes divorced from the reality of their business.  Or is that just me being cynical in my dotage?

[Malc1]

These days ……. are the salespeople actually employed by the Dealer …….. or maybe just self-employed on commission etc 🤔 ……… and sometimes too keen to seal a deal 

Malc 

[LenT]

16 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

These days ……. are the salespeople actually employed by the Dealer …….. or maybe just self-employed on commission etc 🤔 ……… and sometimes too keen to seal a deal 

Malc 

Interesting question, Malcolm.  Perhaps an ex-employee will give us a definitive answer.  Having had the occasional car dealer as a client, my impression was that the sales staff worked on basic plus commission.  And of course the Dealership gats a sales bonus as well.

Fortunately, most Dealers don’t seem to think it would be a good idea to use a cash incentive to get the mechanics to work faster.

To see where that can lead, I slightly digress as I recall a notorious German restaurant in Goodge Street, London, called Schmidt’s - they changed it to Smiths during the War!

The waiters basically worked for the kitchen - their pay depended entirely on the number and value of the meals they sold.  It’s the only restaurant I’ve ever been in where the waiters actually ran from tables to kitchen!  

Now you might think that would encourage good customer relations.  Far from it!  Apparently not.  If you weren’t ready to order, the waiter would simply move on to the next table.  If you weren’t interested in the more expensive daily special, their contempt was palpable.

On the other hand, the food was great and every meal was hilarious!  I loved it.  And there was a great delicatessen downstairs.

[DavidCM]

Don't mention the war.I mentioned it once and I think I got away with it.....

[Boomer54]

2 hours ago, LenT said:

Sadly, so often the case.  There were times when I would commiserate with clients about how smoothly their businesses would run if only they didn’t have to deal with the Public.   

Invariably, the irony escaped them!

I would despair when presented with the Company’s Mission Statement.  So often a string of self-serving platitudes divorced from the reality of their business.  Or is that just me being cynical in my dotage?

Ditto

[MaximusPrime]

Wouldn't want to name the particular dealer - you'll be able to narrow it down from the county I am in, but sadly have similar, slightly negative experiences to some of the above posters.

I've had my current car for coming up to 2 years now, and it's not exactly new (55 reg LS430) but I have done all the servicing exclusively at my local Lexus centre during this time. Three visits, two services (including a major one), and a total spend close to £2,500, if you include minor bits like wipers, etc.

On several occasions I've asked the dealer for a quote for some further work on the car, or had a quote presented to me following a service to address some of the "negatives" they have spotted, and each time this wasn't followed up, or they would simply not call me back or reply to an email I have sent their representative, even though I am quite literally offering them extra business. Another time I was promised a call back to clarify something I considered they haven't addressed during the major service, and yet again - silence. At the same time, the main franchise agent (who I am guessing oversees the local Lexus dealer) would bombard me with calls to have the MOT booked with them. 

What baffles me is that every time I visit the dealership they are extremely welcoming and courteous, hands down the best customer experience I've had, and the people at this particular dealer are genuinely very lovely, yet the aftercare is somewhat lacking.

Could this be down to the age of my car? I am not sure how much value / profit they are able to get out of a customer like me, but surely having the car serviced with them regularly should be valuable to them, the LS servicing costs are not exactly cheap to us, are they? Just my two cents.. 🙂

[Juicedrinker]

Following on from my initial post regarding sub standard dealership service, I have just established yet another issue!

Following a discussion on an RC Forum it turns out (the dealer who used to service my previous Lexus cars) that I then bought the 3 year service and MOT plan from.... has in fact overcharged me for this plan by a LOT!  I queried it at the start but was told it was definitely correct and now I have found out that rather than charge me for an RC300H service plan they in fact charged me for an RCFV8 service plan at about £500 more!!  What a complete bunch of muppets.

I spoke with Lexus HQ this morning and they said nothing to do with them and I needed to speak with EMAC who handle that side of things.  I then spoke to EMAC who said nothing to do with them and I need to speak with the dealer that sold me the plan, so I sent a long email to the dealer early this morning and am now awaiting their reply. 

Why oh why can they not do things right for crying out loud they are not some dodgy back street dealership, in fact I've never had issues with small privately run car dealers thinking about it.

To summarise -

My last Lexus went for its annual service and the dealer told me I imediateley needed new pads and discs all round.  I challenged this as had new Lexus parts less than 20,000 miles before and the service manager got arsey and said 'if you know more than a Lexus technician perhaps you should work for us'.  I took car to an independent MOT testing centre who I use and they said nothing wrong at all, a week later went to another Lexus dealer and they said pads about 30% worn and discs at least 3 years left on them at the mileage I was doing.  Also while they had it they were worried and took me into workshop as very low on oil as in below the minimum.  I told them and showed them it had been serviced the week before by Lexus and they then spent a good 30 minutes trying to locate a leak but couldn't find anything so they kindly topped up oil free of charge and told me to check oil weekly.  Two months later I had used about 0.5 litres of oil and nowhere near the minimum on dipstick so clearly the original servicing dealer had failed to put correct amount of oil in!    

Then Lexus dealer I bought last years approved car from did not repair what was agreed with the salesman prior to delivery, short supplied me keys (got only 1) and had the wrong service completed on the car (!).  I had to complain to Lexus HQ who jumped on the issues and got the dealer principle to contact me, I told him the issues and he said all had been arrange for the service department to sort out if I could lose the car for a few days. They gave me a loan car which had childrens and womens personal belongings in, was filthy inside and had womens underwear and clothing in carrier bags in the boot.  It came back (in the end 10 days later) and they had not rectified two of the issues that I had sent it back for and the service department said they had not been instructed to even look at them.  Then they emailed me and phoned me repeatedly one day a month later to say they were taking money from my card for the dash and rear cameras that were installed prior to delivery or they would need to pursue me for payment, yet I had already paid for them and had receipt of payment prior to the car being supplied to me in the first place .

Then I went to book it in for its first service and MOT that is due in a few months and asked about the dealer rectifying something that I had originally complained about after receiving the car that will break at some point as its making a goddam awful noise and not operating properly and they refused and said they can only fix it when it has completely broken and not look at repairing it or rather stopping it from braking completely and anyway to just look at it would cost me about £150.00 minimum. 

I have owned and had a huge number / range of cars in my life privately and in business where I did over 50,000 miles per year for over 20 years and to be honest my Lexus experience is nowhere near the best that I have had.  In fact incredibly the best I have had in past were with Honda, BMW and amazingly Alfa Romeo who couldn't have been nicer people to deal with.

I am now wondering if it is more area based and how people are / act in the UK rather than the brand.  My Honda, BMW and Alfa experience were all when I lived and worked up In Northumbria and Cumbria for a few years and the people there are simply amazing.  I think down South most business people basically do not give a toss about anyone.