Beyond economical repair?

[Wherryman Sam]

Greetings, fellow LS lovers. I’m afraid The Duchess failed her latest MOT and I’ve regretfully had to take her off the road. It really doesn’t seem fair; at under 83K miles, she’s hardly been run in. She’s never let me down in the four years I’ve been wafting around in her, aside from a rear coil spring shattering into three pieces last year, and she STILL got me home!

All I’ve done is replace the failed bonnet gas struts and a new boot lid seal. The seal was an attempt to resolve an issue with water ingress, and whilst it helped, it didn’t completely cure the problem. The boot still gets damp and smelly in wet weather.

On to the immediate issues…

I’ve attached a copy of the fail sheet. Obviously, the biggest issue to my mind is the corrosion of the front sub frame. My guy reckons a grand to solve the issues, plus another grand in a years time to sort out the advisories. I don’t have the knowledge, skill or experience to tackle anything like this, so I have to rely upon my guy. (Please note that the brake disc wear has been noted on advisories for a couple of years now - my guy chose not to replace them due to my low annual mileage of a thousand miles / year.

The thing is, I’m already up to what I paid for her in repairs, plus another two grand plus over the next two years. Additionally, I had planned to replace the timing belt this year on her thirtieth birthday, so that’s another expense. 

At what point do you wipe your mouth and walk away? I love her to bits and love wafting about in her, but I’m not made of money and things are tight as it is, so I’m looking for some erudite advice from you guys, who know far more about these behemoths than I.

Do I list her on eBay for spares or repair? Try to find an ethical breaker with a love of the marque, or pay for dry storage for the next ten years until she’s MOT exempt and/or my circumstances have changed? (Unlikely- I’m retired.)

Your thoughts and input would be appreciated.

Regards,

Wherryman Sam.

 

[lex - eleven]

Wow that is a big list for such a low mileage car. Really sorry and surprised to see that. If that was mine I'm afraid I'd cut my losses and list it as spairs or repair. Good luck to you.

[Cs150]

How can a dust cover be a major defect, looks to me a garage hungry for work if I am honest. There are huge variances in the MOT test from garage to garage I have seen this personally. Body structure corrosion could just be some surface rust that may be transformed with Lanogaurd or wax covering. You need an independent opinion of this I feel. 

[Malc1]

You’ve been 3 months wondering what to do then ?

I know dust covers aren’t very expensive ……. I had one at the last MOT …… maybe a “ new “ independent MOT for a fresh perspective ? 

what did prior MOTs reveal ?

we can check if you give us the Regn no. ! 

Malc 

[HPS13]

1 hour ago, Cs150 said:

How can a dust cover be a major defect, looks to me a garage hungry for work if I am honest.

The MOT inspection manual is available online should anyone wish to look. 

(b) a suspension joint dust cover:

(ii) missing or no longer prevents the ingress of dirt etc,  -  Major defect. 

I do agree that although every MOT tester should follow the inspection manual, everyone's assessment ability is different - there will always be differences of opinion as we're not robots. 

If you ever have doubt if an MOT has been carried out correctly, you can contact DVSA to investigate. 

Personally I'd be most concerned about the corrosion and also the excessive oil leak. 

[Howplum]

If you sold it would you replace it with something similar? In other words, it might be more cost effective to have it repaired, especially as values seem to be rising, than to buy a replacement.

It is quite an alarming list for a low mileage car, but, as has been mentioned already, the most serious (and expensive) issues are the corrosion and the engine oil leak. From the cars currently being advertised I would guess that the value, once repaired, would be over £5,000, assuming the bodywork and interior need no work.

If it's a "hobby car" and you don't intend to replace it then perhaps just cut your losses and sell it for spares or repair. Apparently the engines are becoming popular for those who want to convert to V8 power, presumably having supplanted the trusty Rover/Buick V8. 

 

[Wherryman Sam]

Thank you for your considered replies. Taking them in turn:

Lex eleven - it is low mileage, but has been kept outdoors on the drive, at least in my ownership. I know your suggestion makes sense, but the thought of some oilk ripping the engine out and discarding the rest just to soup up a drift car fills me with dread.😟 

Cs150 - an independentl opinion could be one avenue to explore, although my MOT guy is a longstanding friend of the family and it is he who originally sold me the car. It had been destined to go into part ex with the previous owner on a newer car, but my guy insisted that he buy it himself to stop it from being sent to the block. That said, nothing would surprise me these days.

Malc - 3 months, I know - sad isn’t it? I suppose I was in denial, and Christmas is not the best time to be trying to move her on. Then of course comes January, when most people are skint.

 I suppose out of sight out of mind might have also come into play. We got her moved a couple of days before Christmas Eve to secure parking (outdoors, unfortunately) at my wife’s workplace.

Anyway, that’s where we are. The reg is L400 LEX and if that rings a bell with you, you gave me some excellent advice on my introductory post four years ago. If you find that post, you should be able to see photos of The Duchess.

HPS13 - you seem to know what you’re talking about with regards to MOTs. As mentioned above, I have no reason to doubt this guy but I do believe he’s cut me some slack over the years especially regarding brake pad wear knowing my annual mileage. I absolutely agree with you about the corrosion and oil leak, and I’ll attach some photos he took. When she was up on the ramp.

Once again, thank you all.

[Malc1]

You’ve just totally underused her and she’s suffered coz of it maybe ……… reading past MOT issues you’ve probably already done some major works and those items not to be repeated with future tiny annual mileage possibly …….. that welding needs attention but if that’s all it is then that looks very limited ……. and do-able by someone who wants to save your car …… 

I’d personally be getting another small credible  independent local garage, that does modest welding,  to reassess your problem car  and come up with their realistic estimate to get her thru’ an MOT and up and running again 

But then I’m a bit of a Ls400 believer and think these beasts might go on forever with a little ££££ “ invested “ in her ……

The Number Plate value alone might actually cover your on-going repair costs …… I don’t have that need but someone here might ……… I’d have thought £1000 value might be achievable + all those DVLA change costs …….. a little summat to have a think about maybe 🤔

Best wishes with it all …….. more thoughts ???

Malc 

[Wherryman Sam]

Thank you both for some excellent points. Howard, it was never about the money for me (well, within reason). My wife and I were shown this car by our family friend, small time fixer upper, trader and MOT tester when I was in need of a replacement vehicle. What enthralled us both about her was not only that she’d been saved, ( I for one had completely forgotten about them - you just never saw them on the road anymore) but that when we were married 30 years ago, my young 21 year old bride worked in Admin for a Toyota main dealer. Many of her colleagues were invited to the wedding, and in a generous gesture, her boss offered to us the use of a brand new LS 400 as a wedding car, with the Workshop Foreman ( a wedding guest ) volunteering to be our chauffeur.

That was my first and only experience of the marque, until 26 years later. Buying her was, for both of us, a romantic thing to do. So, she’s never been an investment, although I’m happy that prices are rising. Would I have another one? Not sure. I don’t have the skill to work on them and my network of acquaintances who might has diminished considerably over the years.

Malcolm, I think she’s always been under-used, not just by me. I have the service record book and a stack of paperwork which attests to that. I like your idea about the welding, and that could be well worth considering. I understand your belief in the marque, and this breed of beasts needs loyal defenders like you in their corner. I had originally thought about selling the reg, but think about this: that plate was issued on the first of August 1994, it is the original larger size plate,was fitted to the car by the dealer, and has stayed there 30 years. That, to me at least, means something.

The interior is okay for her age, the tachometer and speedometer have gone dark and the boot is manky. There are some worrying rust spots on the door sills, getting slightly larger each year. Unless those issues, along with the more pressing ones, are addressed, it’s very unlikely she’ll ever be in showroom condition.

lots to think about guys, thank you so much for your help.

[Malc1]

Why on earth be concerned about Showroom Condition ……. just get her useable and enjoy the driving in a marvellous limo 

My two are 248k and 99k miles and brilliant everyday cars with assorted dings and dents that just don’t affect the comfort joy and bliss of outstanding driving …….. I just alternate their daily use …… no favourites here 

 

Your damp you can sort if you try hard enough I’m sure ….. and ££££ free too probably and the dash light bulbs just might be that ….. £1.50 bulbs ! 
It’s old school electronics and technology remember

Keep any new regn no. on that larger plate holder for sure …… why worry what outside observers observe in the detail 🤔

Go get her sorted ….. you know it makes sense ….. and will give you immense pleasure when done ✅ ……. and possibly a store of increasing value if you’re really concerned on that point 

Malc

[Spock66]

The oil leak looks like it could be just the sump gasket or even the sump plug.

[Malc1]

Sump plug on my 95 car about 3/4 years back cost nigh on £30 ……. ? 

Malc 

[Howplum]

Regarding the boot leak, I found on mine that water had been leaking past the aerial mounting because the material had gone hard. A smear of silicone solved it. Maybe you have the same issue. 

[Cotswold Pete]

Sam,  this is a sad story to read, and I totally understand the thought of getting rid of the car.

I had similar dilemma last year, but my LS had done 230K+ and needed about 3K spent on it, to keep it on the road, but decided I did not have the skills to do it so it went to the great Lexus resting place in the sky. 

Since then I have regretted it at times and then at other times decided it was the best thing to do.

As a Lexus owner of 15 years, my Merc seems so rough and ready and though cheaper to repair I spend a lot of time thinking about the Lexus I will buy when I feel the Merc is just not making me feel like driving much.

So whatever you end up driving it will not be the same as an LS400 (I did not want a 430, was not sure on a 460 though was erring on buying a ES300H before bargain  - or so I  thought - E350 dropped into my lap) 

Best of luck with whatever you end of driving

 

[Bluemarlin]

Speaking as someone who got rid of my previous car due to growing corrosion and other issues, all I can say is that whilst things may be repairable it's likely to be an ongoing money pit. If the underside and door sills were rust free, I'd probably fix the oil leaks and keep the car running. However, by the time you've spent money on fixing the rust, the leaks and what looks like needing 4 new tyres, then you're getting close to what it would cost to replace the car with something newer and relatively rust free.

I understand your attachment to the car, and that it's not an investment, but neither should it be a liability. Emotions can be expensive, and not always as rewarding as they appear. If it were me I'd take some photos for memory's sake, replace the car and start a new chapter with the wife.

Whatever you decide I'd do it quickly, as it will only get more costly with time.

[BodgerBen]

I only got into LS’s as we bought one for the engine and box. That was a 94 and this is what it went into.

So not all 1UZ’s go into drift cars.

A low mileage, non interference 94 engine/box must be worth 2K, but to get the car back to a respectable condition that won’t cost money every year will be a lot more than that.

 

Personally, I’d sell it and go for something else.

 

[Malc1]

Is that a Scimitar that Princess Anne used to drive ? 

Malc 

[Mossypossy]

And me.....in 1987, my dads.

 

[Cotswold Pete]

3 hours ago, BodgerBen said:

Crikey not seen one of them in a while, used to have a neighbour back in the 80's and his dad drove a canary yellow one, never got to have a go though

[Malc1]

BUT now back to Sam’s Ls400 eh ! 
 

id like to see it back on the road somehow, so Sam   How’s your thoughts progressing on all this ? 

Malc 

[Spottedlaurel]

Hello Sam. As a fellow early LS400 owner in Norfolk I feel I should come along and give some moral support/encouragement, or at least a second opinion.

I'll send you a message....

[Wherryman Sam]

On 3/3/2024 at 2:57 PM, Malc1 said:

Why on earth be concerned about Showroom Condition ……. just get her useable and enjoy the driving in a marvellous limo 

My two are 248k and 99k miles and brilliant everyday cars with assorted dings and dents that just don’t affect the comfort joy and bliss of outstanding driving …….. I just alternate their daily use …… no favourites here 

 

Your damp you can sort if you try hard enough I’m sure ….. and ££££ free too probably and the dash light bulbs just might be that ….. £1.50 bulbs ! 
It’s old school electronics and technology remember

Keep any new regn no. on that larger plate holder for sure …… why worry what outside observers observe in the detail 🤔

Go get her sorted ….. you know it makes sense ….. and will give you immense pleasure when done ✅ ……. and possibly a store of increasing value if you’re really concerned on that point 

Malc

Malc.rves

I'm not worried about outside observers, it's more a case that she's a completely original 1994 car.

On 3/3/2024 at 3:16 PM, Spock66 said:

The oil leak looks like it could be just the sump gasket or even the sump plug.

Andrew - you've no idea just how much your words - and others - have cheered me up. I'm feeling much more positive now, so thank you.

On 3/3/2024 at 4:29 PM, Howplum said:

Regarding the boot leak, I found on mine that water had been leaking past the aerial mounting because the material had gone hard. A smear of silicone solved it. Maybe you have the same issue. 

Howard - thanks for this. It makes a lot of sense actually, and probably what Malc was referring to when he said not much £££. The boot carpet does seem dampest under where the aerial comes in.

I've decided to keep her and get the work done, as time and funds become available. You've all made it sound much less of a biggie than I'd originally imagined, and I'm a lot less worried after reading your excellent advice, common sense and pragmatism, so thank you all so much. I feel like a weight has been lifted.

[Wherryman Sam]

Pete - I hear you Loud and clear. Car regrets have been many over the years, but only because of other idiot drivers writing them off and me not being able to replace them. Worst was a 2.9i V6 Scorpio - God I loved that car!

I remember selling a shotgun for a newer model in the eighties - fitted me like a glove. Nothing I've ever owned since has come close. That's one I'll take to the grave!

Ben - Nice Scimitar! My wife was offered one in the Nineties, and very nice it was too. Her reason for not buying (despite my protests)? No power steering ha.🥵

Bill, I don't intend for her to become a costly money pit, and what's been spent on purchase and repairs -when factored into cost of replacement - is not a whole hill of beans.

Malc, you always knew the answer. 😄 I can't and I won't let her go without a damn good fight. So thank you, and the others for helping me regain perspective. It's been quite cathartic.

Nigel, thank you so much for your generous offer and if I was still in Norfolk, I would definitely take you up on it. Free advice AND a garage that has some knowledge of these exotic beasts is rare indeed.

You gentlemen are blooming marvellous. I'm blown away by your knowledge, experience and willingness to help. Thank you all so very, very much.

I'll keep you updated as to progress, but please don't expect too quick a fix. I think this will be a bit of a slog.

Warmest regards,

Mike.

 

[Razor61]

1 hour ago, Wherryman Sam said:

Nigel, thank you so much for your generous offer and if I was still in Norfolk, I would definitely take you up on it. Free advice AND a garage that has some knowledge of these exotic beasts is rare indeed.

So you are in Greater Manchester now? I work in Bolton and live in Darwen and, depending on where you are, I don't mind taking a look at the car. I may be able to give you some pointers and advice, PM me and maybe we can sort something out.
I can't quite figure out something though, which part of car is shown in the picture below, do you know which part of the car this is?



And the suspension arm shown below, front lower suspension arm I guess (not the front strut bar), does have corrosion but it doesn't look like an MOT fail to me. That's assuming the picture was take for that reason and not the oil that can be seen.


 

[Wherryman Sam]

Hi Paul, thanks for your reply. Yes, back oop North now on the borders of Bolton and Wigan, not too far from M61 J4.

Sorry, but I'm pretty useless when it comes to identifying the undersides of cars. I assume the first photo in your post is the corrosion on n/s and o/s integral body structure. The lower suspension arm ball joint you mentioned in your second photo I assume refers to the dust cover no longer preventing the ingress of dirt?

Hope that's right, but they're only assumptions on my part.

Thanks for your kind and generous offer to have a gander, but I think where she's being stored at the moment is going to be too much to ask of you. We currently have her in a secure car park at my wife's place of work, which is in Chester. That's well over 100 miles round trip from Darwen and travelling / looking /travelling back hours of your time. I can't ask you to do that.

Best regards,

Mike.