Liability for poor workmanship -broken tyre pressure monitor

[Tony1452]

Evening all,

I had some surface damage on two of my alloys, so I took it to an alloy wheel repair company and the two wheels were treated and resprayed. I called in this afternoon to collect my car and pay for the work. The lass on  the reception apologised and handed to me a broken tyre pressure monitor. She explained that the guy who did the job broke it when trying to get the tyre off. I paid for the work and drove home, expecting the part to be a reasonable price. Well it isn’t. It’s £181 to supply/fit and recode at my local Lexus. I shall return to the workshop in the morning to see if I can get them to pay for the damaged part. I’m not holding out much hope, especially these days The repair to the alloys with vat was less than the replacement valve. 
It was pouring with rain when I collected my car and only when I arrived home did I notice that the two Lexus dust cap OE parts have been replaced with black, plastic dust caps. The Lexus dust caps don’t come cheap either. 
I had a job done there a few years ago, when I had all four alloys on a BMW repaired and a good job was done then. I don’t know what went wrong today. The girl on the reception thought it was a weakened with age part. Needless to say, I’m not very happy.
 

[Notamech]

Mistakes happen but as you rightly pointed out the liablity lies with them to make it right. If there was a perceived risk that removing the sensor was going to cause it to break. They should be calling and informing you about it. Anyway whats done is done. I think its fair to give them an opportunity to make this right and replace a like for like sensor themselves. i reckon it will be cheaper for them to fix it themselves with original parts than paying you to go to the dealer. Also do inform them about the valve caps and do this over a text message or email in addition to a call. Document your grievance and the solution theyre willing to offer in case you need to take them to small claims court. 

[Tony1452]

18 minutes ago, Notamech said:

Mistakes happen but as you rightly pointed out the liablity lies with them to make it right. If there was a perceived risk that removing the sensor was going to cause it to break. They should be calling and informing you about it. Anyway whats done is done. I think its fair to give them an opportunity to make this right and replace a like for like sensor themselves. i reckon it will be cheaper for them to fix it themselves with original parts than paying you to go to the dealer. Also do inform them about the valve caps and do this over a text message or email in addition to a call. Document your grievance and the solution theyre willing to offer in case you need to take them to small claims court. 

Cheers! I had a look at a video, which shows how these things are replaced. It’s actually very easy for a competent tyre fitter, although it does have to be recoded via the necessary technology device. The fellow who installs the replacement TPMS, does say that batteries in them usually need replacing every 6/7 years. Be that as it may, my car has only achieved 41k miles- although it is now ten years old. Doesn’t look it, nor drive like a ten year old car, I must say.

[LenT]

58 minutes ago, Tony1452 said:

She explained that the guy who did the job broke it when trying to get the tyre off.

So presumably it was replaced with an ordinary valve.  Well the TPMS is a valuable and useful safety system which was working when you entrusted your car to them - and should be in the same condition when it’s returned to you!

Breakages by the mechanic are entirely their responsibility and a good shop would have organised the fitting and coding in of a replacement without you being inconvenienced - but should inform you anyway.  

Breaking a TPMS valve in this way is unusually incompetent.  They don’t significantly weaken with age because they are not subjected to significant movement.  Battery life averages around 7 years but can range from 5 to 12.  It depends on how the car has been used.  If these were the originals, then it might have made sense to replace all the TPMS valves if you were getting a new set of tyres - and possibly negotiate a discount at the same time. 

But losing two of the original tyre caps as well raises this failure to almost heroic levels!  Tyre caps are an essential element in the efficiency of the valve.  Incidentally, metal caps may seem like the way to go but they have a tendency to corrode on to the valve stem.  This snaps when attempts are made to remove the cap!

Unless they’re regularly checked and the threads greased up, plastic caps is the way to go.

I speak from painful experience!  😡

[rayaans]

I think the first mistake was leaving their premises. 

They may be willing to help and that will show how they are as a company. Unfortunately, most of these companies bury their heads when a problem arises so you may not get anything!

[Tony1452]

17 minutes ago, rayaans said:

I think the first mistake was leaving their premises. 

They may be willing to help and that will show how they are as a company. Unfortunately, most of these companies bury their heads when a problem arises so you may not get anything!

I shall find out when I go back in the morning. Will report on here the results of my complaints. Thanks.

 

26 minutes ago, LenT said:

So presumably it was replaced with an ordinary valve.  Well the TPMS is a valuable and useful safety system which was working when you entrusted your car to them - and should be in the same condition when it’s returned to you!

Breakages by the mechanic are entirely their responsibility and a good shop would have organised the fitting and coding in of a replacement without you being inconvenienced - but should inform you anyway.  

Breaking a TPMS valve in this way is unusually incompetent.  They don’t significantly weaken with age because they are not subjected to significant movement.  Battery life averages around 7 years but can range from 5 to 12.  It depends on how the car has been used.  If these were the originals, then it might have made sense to replace all the TPMS valves if you were getting a new set of tyres - and possibly negotiate a discount at the same time. 

But losing two of the original tyre caps as well raises this failure to almost heroic levels!  Tyre caps are an essential element in the efficiency of the valve.  Incidentally, metal caps may seem like the way to go but they have a tendency to corrode on to the valve stem.  This snaps when attempts are made to remove the cap!

Unless they’re regularly checked and the threads greased up, plastic caps is the way to go.

I speak from painful experience!  😡

 

28 minutes ago, LenT said:

So presumably it was replaced with an ordinary valve.  Well the TPMS is a valuable and useful safety system which was working when you entrusted your car to them - and should be in the same condition when it’s returned to you!

Breakages by the mechanic are entirely their responsibility and a good shop would have organised the fitting and coding in of a replacement without you being inconvenienced - but should inform you anyway.  

Breaking a TPMS valve in this way is unusually incompetent.  They don’t significantly weaken with age because they are not subjected to significant movement.  Battery life averages around 7 years but can range from 5 to 12.  It depends on how the car has been used.  If these were the originals, then it might have made sense to replace all the TPMS valves if you were getting a new set of tyres - and possibly negotiate a discount at the same time. 

But losing two of the original tyre caps as well raises this failure to almost heroic levels!  Tyre caps are an essential element in the efficiency of the valve.  Incidentally, metal caps may seem like the way to go but they have a tendency to corrode on to the valve stem.  This snaps when attempts are made to remove the cap!

Unless they’re regularly checked and the threads greased up, plastic caps is the way to go.

I speak from painful experience!  😡

Much appreciated comments. I’m not going to allow them to get away with it. I don’t think the lass on the reception has any idea of the replacement part, she will do in the morning as will the proprietor of the business. She was the only person on site when I collected my car. Perhaps the proprietor had disappeared on purpose as she stipulated that my car would be ready at 4:15, maybe giving her boss the opportunity to disappear. 

[Newbie777]

Unlucky mate.

I think speak to person in charge and they will need to pay for the sensor, re install it and reprogram it.

The TPMS valves can break off after a few years old, but that is not the point, nobody told you, nobody rang you to tell you and it's just not good enough leaving poor receptionist to give out the bad news.

I think you are talking about £70 minimum to get it all sorted.

[Tony1452]

5 minutes ago, Newbie777 said:

Unlucky mate.

I think speak to person in charge and they will need to pay for the sensor, re install it and reprogram it.

The TPMS valves can break off after a few years old, but that is not the point, nobody told you, nobody rang you to tell you and it's just not good enough leaving poor receptionist to give out the bad news.

I think you are talking about £70 minimum to get it all sorted.

Thanks! Quote from Lexus before they closed for the day £181. The work on the wheels to refurbish, total £168. 00 

[Newbie777]

12 hours ago, Tony1452 said:

Thanks! Quote from Lexus before they closed for the day £181. The work on the wheels to refurbish, total £168. 00 

Oh I see, well the garage is insured for these things and so should compensate you the full amount, good luck.

[steve2006]

Carelessness and incompetence are the 2 words I would use to describe this event, I would also check the tyres are also fitted the correct way around if directional, the pressures and the wheel nut torque.

[LenT]

34 minutes ago, steve2006 said:

Carelessness and incompetence are the 2 words I would use to describe this event, I would also check the tyres are also fitted the correct way around if directional, the pressures and the wheel nut torque.

An excellent point, Steve.

Always worth considering that someone capable of such carelessness may not have restricted themselves to just the two basic errors!

[Linas.P]

Well... that is tricky situation...

In theory they should be liable for everything, so it would be fair to get quote from Lexus for two missing centre caps and for TPMS sensor and send them kindly worded e-mail explaining the situation and asking for resolution. Most informant thing is to have it in writing. Then you can obviously follow-up via phone call or in speaking in person, and most importantly you should respond to your own e-mail with summary of what you have agreed and ask them to confirm that. Keeping records is important here. If they fail to fix it, then you can go to trading standards, but most likely outcome will be that you will have to sue them for damages. Suing is NOT really worth the effort - that is the short answer.

So here you will rely heavily on their good will, I would still send the e-mail with quotes and explaining situation, but then I would be quite flexible on letting them to source replacement parts. There is no reason why wheel centre caps are missing, so they may be able to find those in the workshop, also TPMS does not cost £181, it costs more like £68... Also I would be surprised if they would not be able to program it themselves considering they are in the business of working on wheels and that sort of work should be routine for them. So I think the end result of this - if they play the ball, they get new TPMS, they find the centre caps and they program the sensor back. But it will require patience and being nice to them, because if they don't play ball then the only option is trading standards and court, which would be more painful than just spending the money.

As for it being brittle from age - not really, but also removing TPMS valve has 50/50% chance of it not working anymore. So if it is broken in half that is more on them, but it may as easily just be in once piece but not working and then it is more on you and on the age of the thing. In short - you need to thread carefully on this one and be polite. They need to put it right, but you can't really leverage anything on them and if you burst in demanding "£181 in cash right now" I suspect you won't get far with it.

[LenT]

17 hours ago, LenT said:

But losing two of the original tyre caps as well raises this failure to almost heroic levels!  Tyre caps are an essential element in the efficiency of the valve.

Tyre caps?!  What was I thinking of?  🙁

Dust caps, obviously!

[Linas.P]

46 minutes ago, LenT said:

Tyre caps?!  What was I thinking of?  🙁

Dust caps, obviously!

#metoo for some reason I read them as centre caps, which would indeed be costly (£40 each). Lexus dust-caps for F-Sport (the nice shiny grey ones with logo) are like £2 from LPD.  

4 hours ago, Newbie777 said:

Oh I see, well the garage is insured for these things and so should compensate you the full amount, good luck.

They would NEVER use their insurance for that. That insurance is reserved for worst of the worse cases, literally death of something similar, maybe a garage with 10 cars burn down, only then it would be worth claiming. Also business liability insurance, like most other insurance products have excess, which I assume probably be at least £10,000. If you start claiming £181 job mistake on business liability insurance, then you will be uninsurable business right away. No business owner would ever do that. 

[Newbie777]

2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

#metoo for some reason I read them as centre caps, which would indeed be costly (£40 each). Lexus dust-caps for F-Sport (the nice shiny grey ones with logo) are like £2 from LPD.  

They would NEVER use their insurance for that. That insurance is reserved for worst of the worse cases, literally death of something similar, maybe a garage with 10 cars burn down, only then it would be worth claiming. Also business liability insurance, like most other insurance products have excess, which I assume probably be at least £10,000. If you start claiming £181 job mistake on business liability insurance, then you will be uninsurable business right away. No business owner would ever do that. 

Oh ok that makes sense, but they should sort out your loss

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, Newbie777 said:

Oh ok that makes sense, but they should sort out your loss

That we agree on... 

[Tony1452]

Right…the director of the wheel refurbishing business, examined with me the broken TPMS and in fairness to him, I had to agree that the batteries in the part are not made to last forever 7-10 years. So, I pointed me in the direction of a company he uses and offered to pay for them to supply and fit a replacement TPMS which would be a clone from the existing TPMS. The job was completed this morning to my satisfaction. The wheel refurbishing people have footed the bill.

After fitting the part, the warning light on my dash went off almost immediately. So, all sorted now.

The technician has held onto the original part, because he told me that they never put them back inside the customers car as the part can interfere with the new TPMS. Not something I’ve ever thought about. Strange, but true.

He told me that should the cloning method ever be required again, it will have to be done from the original part. A member of my family will pick it up in his car to avoid any problems. He added that the cloning method has become far less expensive than replacing an original sensor, which can vary in cost. As long as it works for the for a few years, I’ll be happy.

Thanks for all replies and interest.

[Linas.P]

Well done!

Sounds fair... and I would have expected the outcome you got. Paying Lexus £181 was certainly not realistic, so everything they did sounds right. I am just surprised they haven't done that right away and let you go out with broken sensor at first.

[Tony1452]

11 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Well done!

Sounds fair... and I would have expected the outcome you got. Paying Lexus £181 was certainly not realistic, so everything they did sounds right. I am just surprised they haven't done that right away and let you go out with broken sensor at first.

Thanks! They had no way of getting away with it as the warning sign was on my screen and it was pointed out to me by the only member of staff, who simply apologised. I’d no idea how much it was going to cost at the time; but I soon did.