The Search is Over

[Mossypossy]

Have a look first.

To do it with the intention of keeping car for 20 years is a big big job.

Best just address obvious issues. 

[GMB]

5 hours ago, finchy40 said:

What’s everyone’s thoughts on undersealing?

I visited an established and respected classic car restorer last week who told me not to underseal the car unless.. you have all the underneath restored, which will be very expensive. All parts removed shot blasted or replaced, powder coated, all seals rubber joints replaced etc etc.  His reason: You will just seal any residual rust under the underseal where it will do more damage than it would if left alone.  His advice: Don't do it, just keep an eye on components and repair/replace when necessary.

A very honest chap. He also offered a free yearly inspection on his ramp to assess the situation.  BTW  approx £7K for the full stripdown and seal to be made like new again.  Nearly forgot - he did not think the lanoguard/dinitrol treatment was a permanent repair and only fit for basic winter protection  - up to a point. Needs doing every year but will not actually cure/renovate anything. The damage is already done.

[Boomer54]

6 minutes ago, GMB said:

I visited an established and respected classic car restorer last week who told me not to underseal the car unless.. you have all the underneath restored, which will be very expensive. All parts removed shot blasted or replaced, powder coated, all seals rubber joints replaced etc etc.  His reason: You will just seal any residual rust under the underseal where it will do more damage than it would if left alone.  His advice: Don't do it, just keep an eye on components and repair/replace when necessary.

A very honest chap. He also offered a free yearly inspection on his ramp to assess the situation.  BTW  approx £7K for the full stripdown and seal to be made like new again.  Nearly forgot - he did not think the lanoguard/dinitrol treatment was a permanent repair and only fit for basic winter protection  - up to a point. Needs doing every year but will not actually cure/renovate anything. The damage is already done.

I contacted a rust treatment manufacturer, and their view was similar, but the nuances matter. As you say a full restoration is exceedingly expensive and with cars of a certain value there is little economic rational for pulling that particular trigger. However, the nuance here is that less expensive treatments still have their place for extending the longevity of your vehicle. Which treatment you use will then affect how long that treatment lasts. Lanoguard for example does not I believe last much longer than a year and waxoyle I think is similar.

For example, if you first of all 'stripe' the car with a proven inhibitor and then two coat using a corrolan product I believe you are supposed to get a multi year finish and the underside of the car can still be seen through the sealing product..

One thing I read is not to use the 'black' undercoats that conceal the underside of the car as I believe that gets an automatic advisory which might be interpreted as a negative along the lines 'rustbucket, but we can't see it to prove it'. Bob, probably knows whether all that's right.

[Bob King]

As I’ve said before I’ve seen some rusty cars in my time as an mot tester , I’ve seen filler, chicken wire, paper, fibreglass and even concrete in outs sills 😮😮

   Any rust prevention is better than nothing , an old fitter I knew would spray old engine oil under his cars, would do it yearly and worked well .

    With the SC430 the floors/suspension can have anything from light rusting to corrosion that needs to be knocked off with a hammer !

I’ve see cars professionally undersealed were I would use the phrase "you can’t polish a turd"…the garage took the money but the car was well past its best.

….it just masks the corrosion to the mot tester and the next person that buys the car .

Below are two examples of light rusting and holed suspension mounting point on the SC430’s rear suspension.

Depending on your ability any rust prevention you can do at home is worth it ,for me FERTAN rust converter then DINITROL 4914 underseal spray works well, and can be topped up yearly as required .

waxoil is wonderful stuff but you tend to get more on yourself than the car !

hammerite paint is also better than nothing but tricky to apply with a brush.

Any rust you can prevent has to be good for your pride and joy 👍🏻

[Bob King]

As for an old eccentric like me, laying under car with brush and spray can in hand is just heaven 😁😁

started on my current SC430…

 

[Malc1]

Many years ago chatted to a guy at a classic car show ….. his Austin Cambridge A60 developed an engine oil leak drip from new and he couldn’t ( or wouldn’t ) fix it …… wondrous simple protection all underside over those decades from a tiny insignificant drip …… other A60s just rusted away I know 

The power of an oil drip allowed to flourish and save a fortune on rust prevention 

Malc 

[GMB]

2 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

wondrous simple protection all underside over those decades from a tiny insignificant drip

I had a triumph motorbike that did all the things Triumphs do - i.e. leak oil. The bottom end of the engine and swing arm were in immaculate condition after many years. Just wipe off the dirt that sticks to the oil and it is like new. Then the leaks will cover it in fresh oil. Lovely!

 A bit of a problem when it got on the rear tyre though😱

[GMB]

39 minutes ago, Bob King said:

Any rust you can prevent has to be good for your pride and joy 👍🏻

This is the key point - prevention. It can be prevented but we are talking about already rusty. It's too late. As far as I understand renovation is expensive and must be done properly. A bit of oil and stuff won't do any harm, and it might make you feel better but it is not going to undo the rust damage that is already apparent.  Maybe these rust cure things do something minimal🤔 - I think the jury's out on that. Tell me if I am wrong please.

[Bob King]

I guess any stage of rusting it can be ‘prevented" from getting any worse, it’s just knowing when the rust has won the day .

[GMB]

4 minutes ago, Bob King said:

I guess any stage of rusting it can be ‘prevented" from getting any worse

That's the bit that confuses me. I remember being told that once rust is in the metal it will continue to react and oxidise unless it is completely taken out. A bit like tooth decay ( sorry about that it's painful ).  So unless it is completely removed everything else is just wishful thinking?  Or  maybe we are just slowing down the superficial rust but the deep down stuff in the heart of the metal is still eating away at it.     A bit depressing isn't it.

[Bob King]

Metal needs moisture and oxygen to allow it to corrode , take away one of those ingredients and you slow the process.

so covering any surface rust with, oil, underseal or wax you are reducing the amount of oxygen getting to it .

  Cutting out rust tends to do with chassis/body restoration…one need the corrosion removed to be able to weld in new metal.

   …I’ve never carried out rust prevention and painting thinking I’ve cured the problem for good, it’s always an ongoing project that many owner enjoy doing 👍🏻

[GMB]

3 minutes ago, Bob King said:

Metal needs moisture and oxygen to allow it to corrode , take away one of those ingredients and you slow the process.

so covering any surface rust with, oil, underseal or wax you are reducing the amount of oxygen getting to it .

  Cutting out rust tends to do with chassis/body restoration…one need the corrosion removed to be able to weld in new metal.

   …I’ve never carried out rust prevention and painting thinking I’ve cured the problem for good, it’s always an ongoing project that many owner enjoy doing 👍🏻

That pretty much sums it up correctly. My 12 yr old car ( rusty underneath - bad in some places not too bad in others ) does not go out in the rain and NEVER if there is any salt around. So I am eliminating one issue and hopefully the rusting process will be slowed down for a few more years of enjoyment.🙂

[Spacewagon52]

24 minutes ago, GMB said:

That pretty much sums it up correctly. My 12 yr old car ( rusty underneath - bad in some places not too bad in others ) does not go out in the rain and NEVER if there is any salt around. So I am eliminating one issue and hopefully the rusting process will be slowed down for a few more years of enjoyment.🙂

I never take my LS400 out if it is raining or the roads are wet, if at all possible. 

Does it do any good? Let you know when it is MOT'd tomorrow!

[GMB]

3 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

Does it do any good? Let you know when it is MOT'd tomorrow!

It will be fine, don't worry, it's a Lexus! The quality of the steel is better than most, especially Fiats.

[Bob King]

49 minutes ago, GMB said:

It will be fine, don't worry, it's a Lexus! The quality of the steel is better than most, especially Fiats.

What was it the 80’s Lancia Beta would be just out of warranty, when the engine mounting would rust off the chassis rails 😳😳

[GMB]

They were good looking cars at that time but, yes, the engine could fall out. Lancia pulled out of the Uk market, probably could not tolerate the salt on the roads. I have seen some recent Lancias in Europe and they are SO ugly now.

Mitsubishi pulled out of the UK which is such a shame because they made some good cars - EVO, Shogun etc.

 

[LenT]

17 minutes ago, GMB said:

They were good looking cars at that time but, yes, the engine could fall out.

I recall having a new 2.0l Lancia Beta Coupe in the early 80s at the height of these rumours.  It was an excellent car; comfortable, reliable and with a very acceptable performance for its time.

I didn’t have it long enough for any potential rust problems to develop (it was a company car) but they were exaggerated anyway.  As I recall, the subframes could rust and become loose - but I don’t think any engines ever actually fell out!

I think that at the heart of its problems was the use of substandard quality steel, to keep costs down, and - especially - poor quality workmanship.  Which of course was something that bedevilled much of the British Motor industry too.

[Glyn Jennings]

28 minutes ago, GMB said:

They were good looking cars at that time but, yes, the engine could fall out. Lancia pulled out of the Uk market, probably could not tolerate the salt on the roads. I have seen some recent Lancias in Europe and they are SO ugly now.

Mitsubishi pulled out of the UK which is such a shame because they made some good cars - EVO, Shogun etc.

 

That red Lancia is beautiful but the build quality of Italian cars of that age is poor. I bought a brand new Alfasud  and when I picked it up the rear doors didn’t shut properly.  The paintwork had dreadful orange peal. The seats had no lumbar support whatsoever and the transmission would sound awful when on a slope. The front brake pads only lasted about 3 thousand miles as they were connected to the hand brake and the way it worked wore out one pad more than the rest.