What else, if at all, is being considered

[peniole]

5 minutes ago, e-yes said:

How about a GS ? Are they vulnerable as well ?

All of them from the same time period are. Every single lexus.

[e-yes]

22 minutes ago, Tonyw said:

Thought of another option today, whilst scrolling Autotrader 

The car itself has great reviews but the 2.5l engine and auto gearbox are hated by journalists (where have I read that before)

I had one as a company car at launch in 2013, the 2.2 diesel and loved it

Mazda 6 GT sport is the ES Takumi equivalent in spec, few years old low mileage cars are often under £20k from main dealer. I only do 6k miles a year so the fact it is not a hybrid and will use a bit more fuel doesn’t really bother me (work gives me 25p per mile back anyway)

I had a Mazda 6 from new in the highest trim but in manual petrol guise.

On long runs I could get 50mpg out of it.

Mind blowing suspension tuning for a front wheel drive setup.

But when we switched from being two car household to single car, part exchanged our BMW 3 Touring and the Mazda 6 … and went with that horrendous A6 Audi f*%#ing crap. Wife doesn’t drive manuals and the BMW had started showing its age… needed a suspension rebuild which I didn’t want to delve into. 
 

TLDR; Mazda 6 for me was very good. Not quite as premium as the ES but then also not anywhere near as pricey as Lexus and at that point of time Mazda were also doing the 0% finance thingy as well. The seats experience on the Mazda 6 was that they were fine for drives up to 2 hours at a stretch but then a break was needed if driving any further. On the ES I think I can drive 4/5 hours straight without getting fatigued.

[ColinBarber]

2 minutes ago, peniole said:

All of them from the same time period are. Every single lexus.

Not the CT, but that’s not really relevant to this discussion. 

[peniole]

2 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Not the CT, but that’s not really relevant to this discussion. 

You sure about that? Aren't they based on the prius? The prius is vulnerable.

From priuschat:

"Hiya -- I had a 2015 Prius C stolen. A neighbor's security camera caught it, but the quality is poor and it was too far away to see any useful details.

Here's how the theft happened -- someone rode up to the car on a small bmx-like bicycle. They stood in front of the driver's side door for a couple of minutes. They opened the car, put their bike in the back seat, and drove off. The entire thing happened in maybe 5 minutes."

[ColinBarber]

50 minutes ago, peniole said:

You sure about that? Aren't they based on the prius? The prius is vulnerable.

CT is based on the Auris. The CT's second facelift was very minor just to stretch out the vehicle for a few more years so there weren't any major electrical changes. Certainly the 2018 wiring diagrams I've seen still show simple LED headlights without any CAN connections to them.

The Prius Gen 4 is vulnerable (2016 on). Not sure about the Prius C, that's a completely different platform to both the Prius and the CT, but your example seems to have been a relay attack - it was posted back in 2018 before the CAN bus vulnerability was being exploited.

I'll try and track down some diagrams from the very latest models to check they aren't vulnerable.

[javadude]

On 1/24/2024 at 10:29 AM, e-yes said:

Didn't think I would consider this... but Tesla Model 3

Purely because it is surprisingly coming in at very affordable levels all things considered.

Seem to be more difficult to steal from what I hear (as long as you have "pin to drive" enabled) although high insurance groups because of the performance. 

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, javadude said:

Seem to be more difficult to steal from what I hear (as long as you have "pin to drive" enabled) although high insurance groups because of the performance. 

Almost impossible even without P2D enabled. I believe they recently updated the phone app to stop the 'key' working if the phone hasn't been moved for a period of time, similar to the sleeping you get with physical key fobs. The refreshed M3 just launched also implements UWB, not that relay attacks are that practical with Bluetooth anyway.

Obviously a vulnerability might be discovered in the future, as with any car, but given the programmable nature of the vehicle its more likely that Tesla could fix an issue in software via an over the air update than Lexus could with the ES.

 

Not sure all the security features are recognised by Thatcham, and no locking wheel nuts, means even the RWD model is in the highest insurance group.

[e-yes]

12 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Almost impossible even without P2D enabled. I believe they recently updated the phone app to stop the 'key' working if the phone hasn't been moved for a period of time, similar to the sleeping you get with physical key fobs. The refreshed M3 just launched also implements UWB, not that relay attacks are that practical with bluetooth anyway.

Obviously a vulnerability might be discovered in the future, as with any car, but given the programmable nature of the vehicle its more likely that Tesla could fix an issue in software via an over the air update than Lexus could with the ES.

 

Not sure all the security features are recognised by Thatcham, and no locking wheel nuts, means even the RWD model is in the highest insurance group.

No locking wheel nuts is a very odd omission !

Is it simply cost control or is it due to the electric drive train ? 

[ColinBarber]

2 hours ago, e-yes said:

Is it simply cost control or is it due to the electric drive train ? 

Cost control, and the fact that they like to have a consistent build for all countries (where possible). I suspect the UK is the only country where locking wheel nuts are part of an insurance rating.

They do actually sell them as an accessory in the UK - but wheel theft isn't really a thing these days, and a locking wheel nut is easily defeated if someone actually wanted your wheels.

[mister_johnn]

The only cars in the same category are Mercedes E Class, BMW 5 Series, Audi A6, Volvo S90, and maybe a few more. But none of them have a great hybrid system to bring them in line or close to Lexus in regards to fuel consumption or reliability. This is only for the PHEV cars, I didn't consider petrol, diesel, or Tesla Model S (as a fully electric option) because they stopped manufacturing it in the UK around 2020.

I will try to make a small summary of what are some main differences/advantages/disadvantages between these cars:

- all of them have a 2L petrol engine, so should have similar MPG. About 30 MPG in the city and 35 on the motorway with an empty Battery. If you have a driveway then you can improve your MPG by charging the Battery overnight, newer models have bigger batteries and you can drive pure electric up to 50 miles.

- performance is by far the best with the Volvo S90, the PHEV models have a turbocharger and supercharger.

- included tech is more with Volvo. You get remote access in case you forget your keys you can use your phone, remote pre-conditioning like cooling/heating cabin/seats, defrost windscreen, with the rest you have to pay for the most basic things like reversing camera, blind spot monitor, adaptive cruise control, automatic tailgate or other.

- booth space 360L Audi A6, 370L Mercedes E Class, 410L BMW 5 Series, 460L Volvo S90, 430L Lexus ES

- I haven't found any report or news regarding the theft of a Volvo with a reg plate over 2020, searched on social media, news, and any place possible on the internet. If you know one, please let me know.

- when purchasing a new Volvo you get the option to buy a service plan up to 5 years or 90.000 miles  (serviced every 18.000 miles) for around £1.150 or £699 for 2 years or 36.000 miles for a pre-approved used. BMW is £1.080 for 2 years or 36.000 miles, Mercedes is £1.152 for 2 years or 20.000 miles, Audi is £520 for 2 years or 20.000 miles. Lexus is £885 for 2 years or 20.000 miles. All are pre-approved, I'm sure most of them have a deal for new cars, but I am looking for a pre-approved one.

- Volvo has most of the controls on the central tablet which can be distracting while driving.

The rest like design, ride quality, and other things are debatable as we all like different things.

I miss my ES, but I want to sleep relax and not think about being stolen or damaged, and so far Volvo ticks the most important boxes for me... for you might be different.

 

[e-yes]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:03 PM, mister_johnn said:

The only cars in the same category are Mercedes E Class, BMW 5 Series, Audi A6, Volvo S90, and maybe a few more. But none of them have a great hybrid system to bring them in line or close to Lexus in regards to fuel consumption or reliability. This is only for the PHEV cars, I didn't consider petrol, diesel, or Tesla Model S (as a fully electric option) because they stopped manufacturing it in the UK around 2020.

I will try to make a small summary of what are some main differences/advantages/disadvantages between these cars:

- all of them have a 2L petrol engine, so should have similar MPG. About 30 MPG in the city and 35 on the motorway with an empty battery. If you have a driveway then you can improve your MPG by charging the battery overnight, newer models have bigger batteries and you can drive pure electric up to 50 miles.

- performance is by far the best with the Volvo S90, the PHEV models have a turbocharger and supercharger.

- included tech is more with Volvo. You get remote access in case you forget your keys you can use your phone, remote pre-conditioning like cooling/heating cabin/seats, defrost windscreen, with the rest you have to pay for the most basic things like reversing camera, blind spot monitor, adaptive cruise control, automatic tailgate or other.

- booth space 360L Audi A6, 370L Mercedes E Class, 410L BMW 5 Series, 460L Volvo S90, 430L Lexus ES

- I haven't found any report or news regarding the theft of a Volvo with a reg plate over 2020, searched on social media, news, and any place possible on the internet. If you know one, please let me know.

- when purchasing a new Volvo you get the option to buy a service plan up to 5 years or 90.000 miles  (serviced every 18.000 miles) for around £1.150 or £699 for 2 years or 36.000 miles for a pre-approved used. BMW is £1.080 for 2 years or 36.000 miles, Mercedes is £1.152 for 2 years or 20.000 miles, Audi is £520 for 2 years or 20.000 miles. Lexus is £885 for 2 years or 20.000 miles. All are pre-approved, I'm sure most of them have a deal for new cars, but I am looking for a pre-approved one.

- Volvo has most of the controls on the central tablet which can be distracting while driving.

The rest like design, ride quality, and other things are debatable as we all like different things.

I miss my ES, but I want to sleep relax and not think about being stolen or damaged, and so far Volvo ticks the most important boxes for me... for you might be different.

 

Thanks Mister John for the detailed response.

I don't see Volvo selling the saloons any more and really would avoid an SUV style if I can. Also trying to avoid a plugin hybrid... I am not convinced about them. For the most part, the plugin hybrids in my opinion are a an effective tax-avoidance instrument if the car is purchased/operated under business expense. Can't see myself having to plug-in AND fill up with petrol, should be one or the other.

I considered the same cars you have enumerated above and the ES came out the most pragmatic choice at the time. I tried the V90 and it had a very nice ride (a dead steering as well) but the petrol engine made some racket under load... the ES I was expecting would be even louder but surprisingly was the quietest of all.

So far, the Tesla Model 3 is making sense as a pure EV but definitely not a long term keeper... and the way it is setup on the inside, it is like operating a computer or a tablet, something I am really trying to avoid as I do that too much as a part of my day job already. Don't want to operate a computer I don't like or cannot setup the way I want to... it doesn't even have CarPlay and apple Music streaming will require a subscription from Tesla after first month of ownership.

If I must get into an SUV type car then so far the new Honda CRV is coming up as a sensible option. I haven't test driven it as yet but going by the reviews (Savagegeese, Tom Volke, Ryan Douthit all are generally very positive but not super excited about it)... and being a Honda I think it might well be a keeper, if a tad boring and far less luxurious than the ES. Test drive may change my opinion about the luxury aspect but I am sure it won't be like a Lexus NX (and won't cost as much as the NX as well)

--E

[Tonyw]

Looks like I have made my choice

after my disappointing attempt to order an LBX (depreciation issue covered in other threads) I am going back to Mazda.

Holding deposit down on a 3yr old, 14k mile Cx30, Sport tech, with the quicker X engine, auto, 4wd in the soul red of course.

Lexus MK offered me £25.6 for my ES, to clear the PCP

Mazda will give me £26 then sell it to Lexus MK, already agreed?

Motorway say it is worth £32 today, so will list it their first and see what happens

disappointing that my Lexus experience is ending this way, but need must