Lexus theft response

[Daguerrotype]

On 1/4/2024 at 6:21 PM, beyond the blue said:

A few months ago I contacted Lexus customer services to enquire if they had any plans to address the can-bus vulnerability of the ES. The reply was they had nothing in the pipeline at that moment. Last week I asked again to see if there was any update on their stance, before I shell out hundreds of pounds on secondary protection. This is their response I received today.

 

 

Lexus Customer Relations ref: CASE ******

Dear Mr *******

Thank you for your email regarding your Lexus ES Premium Edition.

I am sorry to advise that we do not centrally have any device or solutions that we can offer from Lexus to protect and prevent this type of can bus attack on the ES model.

From what we can see, The Lexus ES has been extremely low volume in attack thankfully and is not a highly targeted model. 

Whilst we do not directly manufacture second stage immobilisers, these are being requested by some insurance parties to enable policies and/or reduce premiums. 

It is widely reported to us by owners and in the press that these second stage immobilisers can be effective in preventing a vehicle from being started, even if a key was physically stolen and present.

We know that it would not prevent access into a vehicle however. Sadly, if a thief wishes to gain access to any vehicle, it is very difficult to prevent this.
 
Regrettably I do not have additional options or products from Lexus that I can provide. I can only apologise that I cannot offer a more positive response at this time and appreciate your contact and enquiry seeking to protect your vehicle and asset.

If I may assist you with anything else please do feel very welcome to let me know.

Kind regards

Toyota (GB) PLC - Lexus Division

I’ll happily tell them how my ES was stolen and not recovered- I won’t go near Lexus ever again.  Very happy with my Tesla 3 but not with the insurance hike due to the complete Lexus loss

[beyond the blue]

7 hours ago, Daguerrotype said:

I’ll happily tell them how my ES was stolen and not recovered- I won’t go near Lexus ever again.  Very happy with my Tesla 3 but not with the insurance hike due to the complete Lexus loss

Their response is something similar to the Post Office scandal "there are very few incidences of a problem"

[peniole]

11 minutes ago, beyond the blue said:

Their response is something similar to the Post Office scandal "there are very few incidences of a problem"

More like "the ES is not targeted", few incidences is too much acknowledgement.

[Illogan]

1 hour ago, beyond the blue said:

Their response is something similar to the Post Office scandal "there are very few incidences of a problem"

And you're the only person whom has reported this!!!!!

[eightk]

Do keep pushing your dealers on this. Standing in the middle of the showroom on a Saturday afternoon proclaiming in a loud voice that these cars can be ‘gone in 60 seconds’ or hounding Lexus to issue a recall via social media will eventually get the message through to them.

JLR are sorting this with 65,000 cars recalled so far, done fortunately while they’re still solvent. Lexus and Toyota MUST do the same.

90 seconds here but it shows how easy it is using ten quids worth of circuitry hidden in a Bluetooth speaker..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUqXxT3CCaA

 

[wewillnotbefobbedoff]

Hi,

Canbus theft has only just started in 2023 and is clearly going to be increasing and a major issue for 2024 for all Lexus model owners, but Toyota can ignore it because everyone is divided in their own forums and topics.

Please visit general forum and view canbus theft scandal topic. Please comment on the topic and also ask this site owner why canbus is not a main page permanent link until Toyota / Lexus fixes this with a recall to fit physical plates as it has done for a few RX owners for all 2014-2023 owners.

The only way Toyota will react is when poor reputation harms sales.

On the gen CTS topic add your own Lexus 2024 tag line.

The wittiest, most pithy will be widely circulated.

Thanks.

[dutchie01]

 

[Ken R]

So if you see a Lexus being driven with only one headlamp working the chances are its just been nicked!

[AndreG]

Hi I found this forum / topic after the attempted theft of my 2019 ES last week . Luckily i happened to leave my house just as they were about to steal my car.  

Not being aware of this problem my first thought was they were stealing the bumper to order , then when visiting a garage to get my bumper refitted they said they would have been after the headlights because they are so expensive.

It was only later when someone on a local neighbour site mentioned this method of theft that i realised.

A quick question , does it have to be the left headlamp ? If so I'm thinking of parking very close to a wall to hinder access as one measure to put them off.

 

[PDM]

2 minutes ago, AndreG said:

Hi I found this forum / topic after the attempted theft of my 2019 ES last week . Luckily i happened to leave my house just as they were about to steal my car.  

Not being aware of this problem my first thought was they were stealing the bumper to order , then when visiting a garage to get my bumper refitted they said they would have been after the headlights because they are so expensive.

It was only later when someone on a local neighbour site mentioned this method of theft that i realised.

A quick question , does it have to be the left headlamp ? If so I'm thinking of parking very close to a wall to hinder access as one measure to put them off.

 

My understanding is that yes, the only way the hijacking of the CANbus can be used to open the doors and start the engine is through the left headlight CANbus wiring loom (this is for an RX but it does seem all theft attempts are through the left headlight)

Paul

[peniole]

8 hours ago, AndreG said:

Hi I found this forum / topic after the attempted theft of my 2019 ES last week . Luckily i happened to leave my house just as they were about to steal my car.  

Not being aware of this problem my first thought was they were stealing the bumper to order , then when visiting a garage to get my bumper refitted they said they would have been after the headlights because they are so expensive.

It was only later when someone on a local neighbour site mentioned this method of theft that i realised.

A quick question , does it have to be the left headlamp ? If so I'm thinking of parking very close to a wall to hinder access as one measure to put them off.

 

No it doesn't have to be through the left. The right can work too, it's just tighter to get to the wiring on that side due to fixed solid tubing in the way. Which is why Lexus are fitting protection plates to RX vehicles on both sides. Every other Lexus owner can go suck a lemon as far as they are concerned.

[ColinBarber]

24 minutes ago, peniole said:

No it doesn't have to be through the left. The right can work too, it's just tighter to get to the wiring on that side due to fixed solid tubing in the way. Which is why Lexus are fitting protection plates to RX vehicles on both sides. Every other Lexus owner can go suck a lemon as far as they are concerned.

It's somewhat dependent on the vehicle and the type of lights. Right hand lights are typically only connected to the left hand light, either through a LIN bus or a dedicated point to point CAN bus link, not connected to the CAN bus linked to the body ECU. For the RX with adaptive high beam there is a CAN link from the right hand light to the gateway ECU - not 100% sure if that is exploitable or not and I think Lexus fit a plate on that side as a precaution only. Certainly all the attacks we have seen are only on the left headlight.

[beyond the blue]

It was explained to me by the Ghost immobiliser installer (who unfortunately can't fit the Ghost to my ES) that the only reason they use the left side is because of the loom routing.

[PDM]

3 minutes ago, beyond the blue said:

It was explained to me by the Ghost immobiliser installer (who unfortunately can't fit the Ghost to my ES) that the only reason they use the left side is because of the loom routing.

Interesting....

[ColinBarber]

5 hours ago, beyond the blue said:

It was explained to me by the Ghost immobiliser installer (who unfortunately can't fit the Ghost to my ES) that the only reason they use the left side is because of the loom routing.

Not really anything to do with routing. The left hand side light has the master headlight ECU directly attached, it is always the LHS light on all models. The slave ECU doesn't have a CAN bus connection on most vehicles, as I stated above - the ones that do aren't connected in the same way so may not be vulnerable anyway.

[beyond the blue]

3 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

Not really anything to do with routing. The left hand side light has the master headlight ECU directly attached, it is always the LHS light on all models. The slave ECU doesn't have a CAN bus connection on most vehicles, as I stated above - the ones that do aren't connected in the same way so may not be vulnerable anyway.

Colin, am l therefore correct in thinking that the more difficult it can be made to remove the electrical connector from the left hand headlamp the more difficult it will be for a thief to connect their gizmo in that area? If so l'm sure l could come up with my own protection plate.

 

 

 

 

 

[ColinBarber]

58 minutes ago, beyond the blue said:

Colin, am l therefore correct in thinking that the more difficult it can be made to remove the electrical connector from the left hand headlamp the more difficult it will be for a thief to connect their gizmo in that area? If so l'm sure l could come up with my own protection plate.

Yes. To steal the car the thief reaches up from the wheel arch, disconnects the wiring from the back of the ECU and plugs their device into the connector on the end of the wiring harness. The plates that Lexus fit block access, stopping the connector from being disconnected from the ECU.

You can see the Toyota/Lexus plate here on TOC:

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/209692-2022-rav4-stolen/?do=findComment&comment=1743549

Below is the bottom of the RX headlight with ECU in blue (ES is similar design) - the plate needs to cover the connector at the top in this picture. I'm sure there multiple ways of blocking access from the wheel arch to the connectors at the back of the light rather than bolting something directly to the lights - it just needs to be strong and bolts inaccessible from the wheel arch or with the bumper removed (or use anti theft shear bolts, pot rivets etc.).

In theory you could just cut the loom further up and find the required wires, strip the end and connect them into their device but that is impractical/too time consuming or difficult to restricted access.

 

 

 

[AndreG]

1 hour ago, beyond the blue said:

Colin, am l therefore correct in thinking that the more difficult it can be made to remove the electrical connector from the left hand headlamp the more difficult it will be for a thief to connect their gizmo in that area? If so l'm sure l could come up with my own protection plate.

 

 

 

I have been having a close look at mine today, i can see a couple of mounting points one on the front of the inner engine bay and one on the inner wing that a metal bar / plate could go across to prevent the headlamp wires from being unplugged , i will get a soft steel strap to get the shape right then will get something stronger made. 

Something else i  considered whilst under the bonnet is removing a relay i will be looking at diagrams to see which one would stop the car starting or being used. 

[PDM]

14 hours ago, peniole said:

No it doesn't have to be through the left. The right can work too, it's just tighter to get to the wiring on that side due to fixed solid tubing in the way. Which is why Lexus are fitting protection plates to RX vehicles on both sides. Every other Lexus owner can go suck a lemon as far as they are concerned.

It's very odd and it seems impossible to get a straight answer here.  I have been told by Lexus UK and by my dealer that you only need plates on the left headlight ECU loom and not the right one.  I asked why some were reporting having them on both and was simply told the right was unnecessary.

[AndreG]

When i first heard of the problem I had it in mind ( thinking it was only a couple of wires going to the headlamp like on older simpler cars ! ) that i would simply superglue the connector into the headlamp and if the headlamp ever needed changing fit a new connector block. 

[peniole]

8 hours ago, PDM said:

It's very odd and it seems impossible to get a straight answer here.  I have been told by Lexus UK and by my dealer that you only need plates on the left headlight ECU loom and not the right one.  I asked why some were reporting having them on both and was simply told the right was unnecessary.

Colin would be the expert here. I'm just relaying what my dealer told me.

[PDM]

4 hours ago, peniole said:

Colin would be the expert here. I'm just relaying what my dealer told me.

I'm going to try again to get more clarity on this issue.

Paul

[Spock66]

26 minutes ago, PDM said:

I'm going to try again to get more clarity on this issue.

I had both sides fitted as advised by Lexus.  However, I have not seen any posts where a vehicle has been stolen due to access from the offside.

[Navnan2]

Sorry can I confirm the "left side" is the passenger side head light?

[PDM]

20 minutes ago, Navnan2 said:

Sorry can I confirm the "left side" is the passenger side head light?

Correct