Interesting comparrison - 2023 RX 450H+ & 500H

[YvesD]

So, ive had the privilege of driving both these cars on loan for a week each when my 2017 450h has been in for service..

Instinctive reaction...i prefer the 450h+ for all round performance and its fuel economy is night and day different to the 500H, according to the trip meter at least.

Same roads, same driving style 

450h+ 90 plus mpg

500h 28mpg!

Putting both of them through their paces in the interests of science.

The more i reflect on it, the 450h+ feels much quicker initially (even though isnt ultimately) due to the massive shove from the plug in hybrid Battery system. When the plug in Battery is depleted youve still got self charging hybrid power to keep things interesting.

Spec/comfort of the cars is largely irrelevant as you can spec both equally.

450h+ for my money every day of the week 

👍

[YvesD]

11 minutes ago, YvesD said:

So, ive had the privilege of driving both these cars on loan for a week each when my 2017 450h has been in for service..

Instinctive reaction...i prefer the 450h+ for all round performance and its fuel economy is night and day different to the 500H, according to the trip meter at least.

Same roads, same driving style 

450h+ 90 plus mpg

500h 28mpg!

Putting both of them through their paces in the interests of science.

The more i reflect on it, the 450h+ feels much quicker initially (even though isnt ultimately) due to the massive shove from the plug in hybrid battery system. When the plug in battery is depleted youve still got self charging hybrid power to keep things interesting.

Spec/comfort of the cars is largely irrelevant as you can spec both equally.

450h+ for my money every day of the week 

👍

Both cars are a big improvement over the previous model handling and UK shocking road surface  isolation wise

[Spottedlaurel]

Interesting to hear your thoughts after a decent run in each, and to compare it with your previous-gen model. The 500h does seem a bit of an odd thing, I wonder if it will remain on sale here?

I enjoyed my drive in a 450+ earlier in the year, all being well then that's what I'd eventually like to replace my current 3rd gen model with in a few years.

[ColinBarber]

17 hours ago, YvesD said:

Same roads, same driving style 

450h+ 90 plus mpg

500h 28mpg!

This would very much depend if you have the ability to charge the Battery or not on the 450h+.

[Spottedlaurel]

6 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

This would very much depend if you have the ability to charge the battery or not on the 450h+.

But even without hopefully it would be significantly better than 28mpg? Given I can get low-mid 30s out of 3rd gen RX with its V6 hopefully with newer tech and the 4-cyl engine they'd be 35-40mpg without charging?

[ColinBarber]

3 minutes ago, Spottedlaurel said:

But even without hopefully it would be significantly better than 28mpg? Given I can get low-mid 30s out of 3rd gen RX with its V6 hopefully with newer tech and the 4-cyl engine they'd be 35-40mpg without charging?

I guess it would get high 30s mpg. It would essentially become an RX350h (which has a combined WLTP mpg of around 43 mpg) but carrying the 170 kg extra weight of an oversized Battery will make it less efficient.

[YvesD]

Well, i flattened the plug in Battery on the 60 mile drive home from the dealer and was unable to charge it up at home cos i didnt have the right adapter....

it was still showing 60 plus mpg when i took it back 5 days later!

Very impressive

[YvesD]

8 hours ago, Spottedlaurel said:

Interesting to hear your thoughts after a decent run in each, and to compare it with your previous-gen model. The 500h does seem a bit of an odd thing, I wonder if it will remain on sale here?

I enjoyed my drive in a 450+ earlier in the year, all being well then that's what I'd eventually like to replace my current 3rd gen model with in a few years.

Yes, the 500h is plenty quick emnough for the real world but at the price point its competing with premium German stuff which are much faster and glittery for similar economy/road tax etc.

Dont see much of a market for it same as you

[wivenhoe]

I have had 4 PHEV’s - 2 Merc’s, 1 BMW and a Range Rover Velar. All of them kept enough Battery to provide the 0 - 60 time even if the range and Battery showed 0. If you selected EV only the acceleration fell away after about 60. 
For my regular journeys the plug-in was definitely the answer - the RR showed an average of 90mpg over 12,000 miles. Electric then was much cheaper so a great saving. Now with electric costing about 28p (ignoring off-peak tariffs) the saving is not so much but still about half.  Dragging the Battery around on constant long journeys would wipe out the benefits of local driving.
Normally you can only access 80% of the Battery so on the RX say 18kw x 80% = say 14kw x say 28p = say £ 4 for real world 35 miles = 11p / mile. Petrol say £ 1.50 x 4.5 litres = £ 6.75 / say 35 mpg = 19p. 
I went full EV after the plug-ins and bought a RZ 

[katabrontes]

The obsession with MPG has always puzzled me.  

The biggest cost, if you buy new, is depreciation which puts the cost of fuel in the shade.  

If EVs become liable for VED, which looks inevitable, and insurance costs continue to increase due to problems with repairs, Battery damage worries and increasing write offs when damage is slight then any financial advantages of EVs will erode considerably.

Of course I have focussed on the 'business case' but it does puzzle me that those who are happy and able to spend verging on six figures for a car are so focussed on the relatively small costs of driving it around.

Environmental arguments are quite another thing but they are rarely mentioned in this forum!

[wivenhoe]

I completely agree but as most people do focus on the fuel cost then that effects residuals. I see parts of London now charge significantly more to park a diesel compared to an EV.  Pretty soon I can see no go areas for ICE’s - stupid but with the environmentalists taking control it’ll only get worse. Plug-in’s with reasonable EV range may come into their own then as they have the best of both worlds. 

[katabrontes]

Nowt so queer as folk!

While walking down to our small market town today I did a few simple sums in my head.  My 2006 RX350 is probably worth about £3K now.  It has been faultless since I bought it in 2013 and having driven a 450 a couple of years ago when I was contemplating an upgrade I decided that the benefits were very slight and the cost more than they were worth.

I think I spend about £2.5K a year on running the car (VED, Insurance, servicing and fuel).  It's ULEZ a compliant and Critair2 in France so can go anywhere at the moment.

I can't remember when I got more than about 24mpg out of a car (since I sold my much loved Fiat500 in about 1976 - it punched a hole in a piston when a valve snapped on the Winchester bypass) so I am pretty relaxed about fuel consumption.

Having read in a magazine in a dentist's waiting room today that average residual values for EVs are now about 40% (2/3 of the RV a year ago) they seem less attractive than ever.

Current plan is to keep the 350 for about another 5 years, or until it needs a major overhaul and then, reluctantly, change for a hybrid unless EVs with sodium batteries and ranges of about 500 miles become available.

[rayaans]

I mean I drove mine 150 miles from the dealership to home and it did over 35mpg sitting at 75mph. It used less than 10% of the hybrid Battery too.

Economy seems to be better than my RX450h in town so far and this thing is properly quick in comparison. Rides a lot better than my previous RX as well.

 

[Spock66]

4 hours ago, rayaans said:

I mean I drove mine 150 miles from the dealership to home and it did over 35mpg sitting at 75mph. It used less than 10% of the hybrid battery too.

I guess that's a typo and you meant 70mph 😉

[rayaans]

9 hours ago, Spock66 said:

I guess that's a typo and you meant 70mph 😉

Of course 

[ColinBarber]

12 hours ago, Spock66 said:

I guess that's a typo and you meant 70mph 😉

Indicated 75 mph in a Lexus is below the real 70 mph 😉 

[Spock66]

On 12/22/2023 at 6:20 PM, rayaans said:

Economy seems to be better than my RX450h in town so far and this thing is properly quick in comparison. Rides a lot better than my previous RX as well.

How does the 6-speed transmission compare with eCVT?

Despite all the adverse reviews I have grown to like the eCVT on the 4th Gen, most other manufacturers with a conventional automatic offer 8/9 gears so 6 does seem a bit short changed.

[rayaans]

1 hour ago, Spock66 said:

How does the 6-speed transmission compare with eCVT?

Despite all the adverse reviews I have grown to like the eCVT on the 4th Gen, most other manufacturers with a conventional automatic offer 8/9 gears so 6 does seem a bit short changed.

Not had an issue with it so far. Tbh I can't even tell when it's changed gears so is quite similar to a CVT in that respect. 

However, when accelerating hard to join a motorway for example, you can tell it's a conventional automatic and it makes it much more refined in my opinion as you don't get that surge in revs

[taffie999]

I'm always confused by economy figures for plug in hybrids. Do your quoted figures exclude the cost of the electricity used, was this calculated?

[wivenhoe]

My calculations showed with electric at 28p / kw the RX450h+ costs about 11p / mile for the 35 miles range against petrol about 19p / mile. I quoted my Range Rover at overall 90 mpg for 12,000 miles so the saving was considerable !

[AWC]

9 hours ago, taffie999 said:

I'm always confused by economy figures for plug in hybrids. Do your quoted figures exclude the cost of the electricity used, was this calculated?

Charging my 450h+ on Intelligent Octopus Go at 7.5p/kW-hr it only costs 3p/mile in EV mode. 😄