Goodbye ES, Goodbye Lexus

[Cs150]

After just over one year of ownership have parted ways with a 72 plate ES Premium Edition, but why? Why would someone get rid of such a car which has no finance on it and is completely owned outright and had originally planned long-term ownership. Well the top three reasons why the vehicle has been disposed of is:

1, Theft or potential attempted theft damage risk

2, Theft or potential attempted theft damage risk

3, Theft or potential attempted theft damage risk

Already had two attempts in which observed people hanging around the car in strange ways possibly planning a targeted attack against the vehicle. There was a third event in which a car kept driving past the vehicle when I was parked in a town centre, this third attempt might have been a false positive so not completely clear. Due to getting the car at absolutely rock bottom price brand new did lose £4,800 on the disposal price after one year and nearly two months of ownership. Whilst it is never great to lose out financially can easily live with that relatively small loss for the ownership period. Attempting to offload the vehicle I contacted seven Lexus dealerships some quite a distance away from me and others close, will not name them although if anyone is interested happy to name them over a DM. The results were as follows:

Lexus dealer 1: Already had an email address of a named contact, the response was that they are fully stocked and have no room for cars until early in the new year

Lexus dealer 2: Contacted by phone and they said they are not taking vehicles until after March next year at the earliest for direct sales and would only consider used vehicles if traded in.

Lexus dealer 3: Initial enquiry by phone, received a call back by the groups car buying manager he advised what would be a realistic price for the vehicle and was very helpful. Stated his dealership group has too many vehicles and was currently on a blanket ban until the end of Jan which he thought might be extended.

Lexus dealers 4, 5, 6 and 7: These dealers did take details of the car and was assured I would receive a call-back either way, even if to confirm that they are not taking cars. None of these dealers did have the common courtesy to respond so more "Premium Lexus" experience on display. Surely these dealers must realise that for every person they ignore they are losing a potential customer indefinitely?

The ES is overall a fine car that represents good value for money but the constant concern of attempted theft or actual theft were too great to live with. The attempted thefts seem to be causing very expensive levels of damage that would likely result in an insurance claim, insurance was already rising concerningly for this model as it did increase from £400 to just over £600 on renewal which percentage wise is significant. Such premium is inappropriate for an IAM member with 25 plus years no claims living in a fairly low risk postcode. For the interim period will be running a car I already own which is currently in storage with a SORN status it is an old Ford Mondeo petrol which no one would ever want to steal or give a second glance. Quite happy in 2024 to be considered an "outdated Mondeo man". Will sit on the sidelines for all of next year and see where the car market goes as there potentially could be some good sales as the economy further deteriorates and may consider a new or nearly new vehicle in early 2025.

 

[ColinBarber]

Sorry to see you go Carl. I can't say I blame you.

[Malc1]

Carl, 2nd hand well looked after Lexii that aren’t usual thieves “ wants “ must be available at modest cost …… if you still wished for a Lexus ….. some of them will be very fine cars too 

Mondeo sounds super  👍

Malc 

[Tickedon]

2 hours ago, Cs150 said:

 

The ES is overall a fine car that represents good value for money but the constant concern of attempted theft or actual theft were too great to live with. The attempted thefts seem to be causing very expensive levels of damage that would likely result in an insurance claim, insurance was already rising concerningly for this model as it did increase from £400 to just over £600 on renewal which percentage wise is significant. Such premium is inappropriate for an IAM member with 25 plus years no claims living in a fairly low risk postcode.

 

Matches the premium increase percentage on my Audi A4. All car insurance is going up in price given higher repair costs. 

Sounds like you were spending too much time worrying about the car, so seems right decision to sell it. Good luck with choosing another newer car in the next year or two.

[Cs150]

39 minutes ago, Tickedon said:

Matches the premium increase percentage on my Audi A4. All car insurance is going up in price given higher repair costs. 

Sounds like you were spending too much time worrying about the car, so seems right decision to sell it. Good luck with choosing another newer car in the next year or two.

Fair point of course, the risk of an attempted theft damaging the Canbus wiring with a possible £5k bill or insurance claim seems something valid to be concerned about. Insurance is of course increasing but the percentage is not close to that experienced on the ES with other household cars.

[george72]

Sorry to see you go buddy. My car is almost exactly the same age as yours and can't really fault it given how much I paid for it. I had my first service last Saturday at Leicester lexus and when I told them about concern around thefts - they stated that they were aware of the problem with RX and that they had been authorised to fix the problem by  lexus uk. They said they were not aware of ES being a problem and when I pointed out that it was increasingly becoming one, they said that they would raise an escalation! What ever that means! 

[mister_johnn]

I was waiting to see your post regarding the sale...
I'm happy that you finally let it go. At least you still had a car to sell compared to others, including me...  I was kind of expecting the replies you've got from the dealers, but at least you found a good one in the end.
I might need to make a post regarding the refund of a service plan, as I have no car to service so I'm just curious how easy will this be. I've sent them an email and waiting for a reply.
Mondeo is a good car and I'm sure you won't need to worry about car theft too soon... 

5 hours ago, Cs150 said:

Theft or potential attempted theft damage risk

Did you copy/paste from the insurance claim? 🙂

My time to move on will follow once the claim is over and I won't be looking back.

1 hour ago, george72 said:

What ever that means!

That means that they know but they won't admit it... and all Lexus and Toyota are subject to this vulnerability, no matter what model it is.

[b4u2]

@Cs150

wow big jump from es to mondeo

how do you manage that contrast ? 😊🙂

[scudney]

Other top end car manufacturers have also got this problem 

[Tickedon]

8 hours ago, mister_johnn said:

That means that they know but they won't admit it... and all Lexus and Toyota are subject to this vulnerability, no matter what model it is.

Not true. The latest NX and RX have an encrypted canbus so aren’t vulnerable to this (but thieves might still try and damage our bumpers). There is a suggestion later Model Years of other Lexus cars have had the same update and thus won’t be vulnerable either, but there isn’t a simple list we can all reference unfortunately.

[Cs150]

1 hour ago, Tickedon said:

Not true. The latest NX and RX have an encrypted canbus so aren’t vulnerable to this 

In the case of the MY23 ES it has the encrypted Canbus but is still subject to £5k plus worth of damage as has occured with members of this forum.

[Cs150]

9 hours ago, b4u2 said:

@Cs150

wow big jump from es to mondeo

how do you manage that contrast ? 😊🙂

Only a temporary situation will not be permanent, the Mondeo has better handling than the ES with its hydraulic power steering giving great feedback to the driver but in all other areas it is inferior of course.

[ColinBarber]

7 hours ago, scudney said:

Other top end car manufacturers have also got this problem 

Apart from Land Rover, evidence would suggest otherwise with Lexus going from nowhere to number 2 most stolen car with the RX and a 500% increase in thefts in general for Lexus over the last 18 months. Lexus cars aren't that common or that sought after that they would suddenly top the lists unless they were substantially easier to steal than the majority of other vehicles. 

[Malc1]

38 minutes ago, Cs150 said:

Only a temporary situation will not be permanent, the Mondeo has better handling than the ES with its hydraulic power steering giving great feedback to the driver but in all other areas it is inferior of course.

clearly overall Superior for you at this time.....😉 .  and in earlier years too 

Malc

[Navnan2]

I have an ES arriving in January, I'm really worried I might have made a bad choice. Time will tell.

[Dippo]

6 hours ago, Cs150 said:

In the case of the MY23 ES it has the encrypted Canbus but is still subject to £5k plus worth of damage as has occured with members of this forum.

Not in all cases. Someone had a go at my MY23, and it cost me £120 to have the headlamp reconnected and everything clipped back into place (plus the price of a big yellow steering lock to deter further attempts).

 

How did you eventually dispose of your ES? You state what you lost, and that Lexus dealers weren't interested, but I didn't see where you eventually sold it.

[Cs150]

1 hour ago, Dippo said:

How did you eventually dispose of your ES? You state what you lost, and that Lexus dealers weren't interested, but I didn't see where you eventually sold it.

Found an independent dealer that would take it for a cash sale. These cars seem to be depreciating quite heavily as the Autotrader guide price was going down around £200 for every week of November.....

[Cs150]

1 hour ago, Dippo said:

Not in all cases. Someone had a go at my MY23, and it cost me £120 to have the headlamp reconnected and everything clipped back into place (plus the price of a big yellow steering lock to deter further attempts).

Indeed all down to luck it would seem as the criminal does try to manipulate the vulnerable Canbus wiring. The quote could be anything from £120 - £5k plus depending on how careful the criminal is with your property.

[Dippo]

Here's a link to the Daily Mail article mentioned.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-12826927/Car-theft-high-keyless-tech-blamed.html?ico=mol_desktop_moneycars

[cdmaskell]

Well what a dilemma!  Simply anybody owning a 40k car is at risk.  I will be receiving a 24 ES P/P in March. Will that have any better theft protection ? and my son will be getting my 22 plate.  As seen in previous threads he had an attempted theft on a 21 plate. We have owned many ES’s.  What to do, buy a Dacia?, may quite rightly suit many.  We have short memories when, not so long ago they were all being hot wired. Let’s do our best for prevention and keep our fingers crossed. BMW, Merc, Audi saloons seem to be more desirable.

 

 

 

[PDM]

29 minutes ago, cdmaskell said:

Well what a dilemma!  Simply anybody owning a 40k car is at risk.  I will be receiving a 24 ES P/P in March. Will that have any better theft protection ? and my son will be getting my 22 plate.  As seen in previous threads he had an attempted theft on a 21 plate. We have owned many ES’s.  What to do, buy a Dacia?, may quite rightly suit many.  We have short memories when, not so long ago they were all being hot wired. Let’s do our best for prevention and keep our fingers crossed. BMW, Merc, Audi saloons seem to be more desirable.

 

 

 

You are right of course that all vehicles are at risk of theft, but as @ColinBarber mentioned above, is seems Lexus vehicles made before the CAN was encrypted are particularly vulnerable.  Your 2024 model will be encrypted, but I guess your 2022 is not.  At some point I suspect the thieves will learn which model years are worth targeting and which are worth leaving alone....

[Mincey]

1 hour ago, PDM said:

  At some point I suspect the thieves will learn which model years are worth targeting and which are worth leaving alone....

That's a bugger for those of us with private plates....

[GMB]

22 hours ago, Navnan2 said:

I have an ES arriving in January, I'm really worried I might have made a bad choice. Time will tell.

Cancel it and get the equivalent but ancient Mondeo instead. Just as nice as the ES, probably better is some respects. Can park it anywhere without fear of scratches or dents. Spend the interest on the savings on Aldi Premier Cru Champagne. BTW - Aldi? Where is my commission cheque?

£995 for a stunning example of Ford unworkmanship. Sorry workpersonship.☺️

[Guest]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:33 PM, Cs150 said:

After just over one year of ownership have parted ways with a 72 plate ES Premium Edition, but why? Why would someone get rid of such a car which has no finance on it and is completely owned outright and had originally planned long-term ownership. Well the top three reasons why the vehicle has been disposed of is:

1, Theft or potential attempted theft damage risk

2, Theft or potential attempted theft damage risk

3, Theft or potential attempted theft damage risk

Already had two attempts in which observed people hanging around the car in strange ways possibly planning a targeted attack against the vehicle. There was a third event in which a car kept driving past the vehicle when I was parked in a town centre, this third attempt might have been a false positive so not completely clear. Due to getting the car at absolutely rock bottom price brand new did lose £4,800 on the disposal price after one year and nearly two months of ownership. Whilst it is never great to lose out financially can easily live with that relatively small loss for the ownership period. Attempting to offload the vehicle I contacted seven Lexus dealerships some quite a distance away from me and others close, will not name them although if anyone is interested happy to name them over a DM. The results were as follows:

Lexus dealer 1: Already had an email address of a named contact, the response was that they are fully stocked and have no room for cars until early in the new year

Lexus dealer 2: Contacted by phone and they said they are not taking vehicles until after March next year at the earliest for direct sales and would only consider used vehicles if traded in.

Lexus dealer 3: Initial enquiry by phone, received a call back by the groups car buying manager he advised what would be a realistic price for the vehicle and was very helpful. Stated his dealership group has too many vehicles and was currently on a blanket ban until the end of Jan which he thought might be extended.

Lexus dealers 4, 5, 6 and 7: These dealers did take details of the car and was assured I would receive a call-back either way, even if to confirm that they are not taking cars. None of these dealers did have the common courtesy to respond so more "Premium Lexus" experience on display. Surely these dealers must realise that for every person they ignore they are losing a potential customer indefinitely?

The ES is overall a fine car that represents good value for money but the constant concern of attempted theft or actual theft were too great to live with. The attempted thefts seem to be causing very expensive levels of damage that would likely result in an insurance claim, insurance was already rising concerningly for this model as it did increase from £400 to just over £600 on renewal which percentage wise is significant. Such premium is inappropriate for an IAM member with 25 plus years no claims living in a fairly low risk postcode. For the interim period will be running a car I already own which is currently in storage with a SORN status it is an old Ford Mondeo petrol which no one would ever want to steal or give a second glance. Quite happy in 2024 to be considered an "outdated Mondeo man". Will sit on the sidelines for all of next year and see where the car market goes as there potentially could be some good sales as the economy further deteriorates and may consider a new or nearly new vehicle in early 2025.

 

I bought my ES around the same time as you did, and I am getting very concerned regarding the theft situation along with the recent hike in insurance rates. The dealer I purchased it from Lexus Maidstone has now been dropped by Lexus and I am now have to use Lexus Canterbury, a lot further away. I was never really happy in Lexus Maidstone anyway.

I am on a 4year PCP deal and I have looked at selling it on CarWow but there is a considerable loss to be made. I did have an offer on a new Dacia Sandero (less desirable to thieves and cheaper to buy) with a loss of about £2000. I will make my decision at the end of January when my insurance runs out and if it increases too high, then decision made. I have never really bonded with the ES300, and wish I just kept with my Jaguar XE which would have been out of its PCP deal by now and I could have just returned it, if the insurance was too high.

[GMB]

1 hour ago, wecpc said:

Dacia Sandero (less desirable to thieves and cheaper to buy)

Dacia Sandero!   You could buy an even cheaper Mondeo that would run rings round it.

There's one here on autotrader £990. This one is even better than an ES.

 

Low mileage, petrol, MOT. What more could you want?

• 0-60mph 10.2 seconds  Top Speed 127 mph  Cylinders 4  Valves 16  Engine power123 bhp  Engine torque125.00 lbs/ft

Or the Dacia Sandinyerpantso: 

0-62mph 12.20 seconds   Top Speed 109 mph   Cylinders 3  Valves 12  Engine power89 bhp   Engine torque118.00 lbs/ft.

 

Now here's one the thieves won't want -- get one of these and hey presto - no problems:

 The Zunndapp Janus was created in Nuremberg, Germany. It held a 205 CC, 14 horsepower engine with a rear facing bench seat where passengers could watch out the back of the car instead of the front so they could chat with the people pushing it.