Hotel ripoff

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, Tickedon said:

The parking cost (if any) is a rather small part of the overall total cost of a holiday / weekend away. 

Thanks also for the recommendation but my last case of Moët & Chandon worked out at less than £26 a bottle!

It is not the point... even if it is 1p, it is not about the cost or percentage of overall holidays cost. It is principle. 

[GMB]

Moet & Chandon is an OK champagne, not a patch on the Aldi product - Don't ask why, just taste it. Take a trip to Epernay or Reims and go for a few tastings A good cheaper alternative to staying in Paris and very easy to get to from the Gare de L'Est. Some of the smaller "houses" produce excellent wines. Not giving any clues 'cos they might put the price up.

BTW Have you seen the stupid prices lately £ 40 for Moet. £50+ for Bolly.  About 10 yrs ago we got some Ruinart Blanc de Blancs in Reims for £15 per half bottle IN A Restaurant!.    Those days are long gone.

[Boomer54]

10 minutes ago, Tickedon said:

The parking cost (if any) is a rather small part of the overall total cost of a holiday / weekend away. 

Thanks also for the recommendation but my last case of Moët & Chandon worked out at less than £26 a bottle!

Champagne ! I am beginning to think I am not posh enough to be in a Lexus

May be I can grab a cheap Hyundai, mystery demand for Hyundai solved.

[GMB]

My Missus drinks nothing else. That's why we have no money.🥲.

It all started ( sob! ) 47 years ago when she/we had twins  - then all life as we know it changed. She got a taste for Taittinger  when she was preggers.  Any chance of a "go fund me champers" page?

[GMB]

26 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

May be I can grab a cheap Hyundai,

Found the perfect car for you. Lexus quality at a bargain price. Hyundai Pony.   Pony as in Mustang but not really.

[Linas.P]

19 minutes ago, GMB said:

Found the perfect car for you. Lexus quality at a bargain price. Hyundai Pony.   Pony as in Mustang but not really.

Donkey... would have been more appropriate name.

[Bluemarlin]

19 hours ago, Linas.P said:

It is not the point... even if it is 1p, it is not about the cost or percentage of overall holidays cost. It is principle. 

You do realise that free parking at a hotel isn't actually free, it's just built into other costs. So it's not the principle, or even the cost, and just the presentation that bothers you.

It reminds me of a contract I was negotiating once, where the client baulked at the rates, and insisted on a reduction,  as other suppliers offered lower rates. The rate reduction amounted to an overall cost of around £100k on a £3m contract.  So, I redrafted the contract to incluce the rate reduction,  but elsewhere added a £100k consultancy fee for something else. They didn't bat an eyelid and signed the revised contract.

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Bluemarlin said:

You do realise that free parking at a hotel isn't actually free, it's just built into other costs. So it's not the principle, or even the cost, and just the presentation that bothers you.

It reminds me of a contract I was negotiating once, where the client baulked at the rates, and insisted on a reduction,  as other suppliers offered lower rates. The rate reduction amounted to an overall cost of around £100k on a £3m contract.  So, I redrafted the contract to incluce the rate reduction,  but elsewhere added a £100k consultancy fee for something else. They didn't bat an eyelid and signed the revised contract.

Not necessarily, it is only extra cost if hotel legitimately has shortage of parking and has to prioritise or rent additional parking spaces.

However, that is very unlikely to be the case in British country side. Also it is matter of prioritisation... you could argue that having toilet in your hotel room is also not free, but it is generally accepted that having toilet is not optional. For me having free guest parking is also not optional. So I expect that anyone who decided to run the hotel looked at all the things they had and included sufficient parking spaces before opening it. 

Also, sometimes it is just hidden within costs of hotel as per your contract comparison, but sometimes there are two hotels for the same price, offering same service, just one has free parking and other doesn't. Same comparison can be used for any other service that hotel has, for example I may not use hotel pool, but that pool is included in my hotel price regardless... or sometimes hotels charge separately for the pool. Now as I don't care about hotel pool and for me that is optional, I may ignore the charge for the pool and still say in that hotel, but parking when I am driving is not optional for me, so I will choose hotel that has free parking. 

The other problem I see - many hotels used to have free parking, and they generally have plenty of parking spaces, but because of politics and being woke, they now started charging for parking in their car parks "because they are on the mission to fix injustice in the world and punish people that they consider should be punished"... no thank you - I don't want politics to be included with my hotel room at an extra cost. To be fair some hotels and many public institutions are nowadays literally FORCED to charge for parking, for this political reason, else they would not get planning permissions for extension or renovation. But because there is no way for me to know that I just pass on using them, even if sometimes the charge is not their fault. 

[dutchie01]

20 hours ago, GMB said:

Moet & Chandon is an OK champagne, not a patch on the Aldi product - Don't ask why, just taste it. Take a trip to Epernay or Reims and go for a few tastings A good cheaper alternative to staying in Paris and very easy to get to from the Gare de L'Est. Some of the smaller "houses" produce excellent wines. Not giving any clues 'cos they might put the price up.

BTW Have you seen the stupid prices lately £ 40 for Moet. £50+ for Bolly.  About 10 yrs ago we got some Ruinart Blanc de Blancs in Reims for £15 per half bottle IN A Restaurant!.    Those days are long gone.

ruinart, now you have my attention!

[Boomer54]

9 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Not necessarily, it is only extra cost is hotel legitimately has shortage of parking and has to prioritise or rent additional parking spaces.

However, that is very unlikely to be the case in British country side. Also it is matter of prioritisation... you could argue that having toilet in your hotel room is also not free, but it is generally accepted that having toiles is not optional. For me having free guest parking is also not optional. So I expect that anyone who decided to run the hotel looked at all the things they had and included sufficient parking spaces before opening it. 

Also, sometimes it is just hidden within costs of hotel as per your contract comparison, but sometimes there are two hotels for the same price, offering same service, just one has free parking and other doesn't. Same comparison can be used for any other service that hotel has, for example I may not use hotel pool, but that pool is included in my hotel price regardless... or sometimes hotels charge separately for the pool. Now as I don't care about hotel pool and for me that is optional, I may ignore the charge for the pool and still say in that hotel, but perking when I am driving is not optional for me, so I will choose hotel that has free parking. 

The other problem I see - many hotels used to have free parking, and they generally have plenty of parking spaces, but because of politics and being woke, they now started charging for parking in their car parks "because they they are on the mission to fix injustice in the world"... no thank you I don't want politics to be included with my hotel room at an extra cost. To be fair some hotels and many public institutions are nowadays literally FORCED to charge for parking, for this political reason, else they would not get planning permissions for extension or renovation. But because there is no way for me to know that I just pass on using them, even if sometimes the charge is not their fault. 

You are both right. On the one hand this is the sort of charge that appears as revenue for the business so of course it is part of the overall cost of a stay, but the flipside is it is also a matter of competitive advantage and as such you may well choose that it is important enough to be a factor in choosing your hotel.  We have a very similar situation these days with air travel and the myriad extra costs now associated with same.

[Gary H]

21 hours ago, Linas.P said:

That is the point - I see car parking as a right, not a service. Unless it is secure car park which is liable for any damage to my car, then yes that is service. So I would not use hotel without free parking on principle. Besides I understand that parking can be restricted, even prohibited for outsiders, but if you staying in hotel then you are "guest" by definition and I assume that decent hotel must have guest parking, it is like part of the deal... no parking means not good enough service. 

And parking is not £1 either. I think in Sainsburys it is £5 (or maybe £4.80, something like that for 1 hour, then maybe ~£8 for 4 hours and ~£12 for a day). Asda car park is basically free if you shop for £10 or more, but it is all messed-up, so you get parking charge deducted from your shopping, but then you have to go an pay, card often does not work, no contactless payments and there were many (like literally 2 times LOL) times where I had to go withdraw £10, then go and beg for cashier to convert into coins so that I can pay £2.20 for parking... and after that I said "never again".

I'm of similar mindset. I'd feel rather annoyed if I had to pay for parking in a hotel car park, given the prices of rooms these days. I know it's something that does happen but I seem to be fortunate enough to avoid them. The hotel I was discussing in my last post (which I've stayed at quite a few times now) only has a very small car park. Six or seven spaces at most and it's tight in terms of space. It's literally a rectangular piece of land on a slope. I think there's about 14 rooms. It's free parking but I honestly prefer parking in an area (still free) which is about a 10/15 minute walk away for the safety of the car's bodywork/paintwork!  

Our local ASDA has a pay and display car park - as the car park is owned by the local council, rather than the supermarket. Needless to say, I can probably still count on both hands the amount of times I've used it since the current arrangement with the parking has been in place - which is getting on for 17 years. The local Sainsburys recently introduced a two-hour limit on their free parking, with a numberplate recognition system on entry. I can kind-of understand that because next door is a retail park, which also has free parking, but gets very busy. They've used Sainsburys as an 'unofficial overspill' for years.   

On a separate subject but still the definition of "service" - another newish charge I've always loathed is having to pay for a courtesy car. The clue is in the name... I had to do it once simply because I had literally no other option at the time, but out of principle I won't have a courtesy car if it's something you have to pay for. I completely understand the dealer wanting a copy of your driving licence. No issue at all. It's the business of paying for something which should (and has in the past) been automatically included as standard. I appreciate some may think that this is petty, but it's something that really gets under my skin. 

[Ala Larj]

I always find a nice pub in the countryside just outside where I need to visit. They are usually cheaper, always have free parking, often have good food, usually have a great breakfast and I can usually drink decent beer before a short stroll to bed!

[GMB]

17 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

ruinart, now you have my attention!

Ruinart was and still is a good champagne house and was usually great value/quality for money.

Since Moet bought them out they have kept the character and style but almost doubled the price. Moet have not interfered with the product.

We visited the house and cellars a few years back - very impressive. You can still book a visit, I think, but now they want about £25 ( check current prices)  for the privilege -but you will get to taste the whole range -probably about £25+ worth of champagne.😊

Why has the price gone up? Simply because Moet want a perceived quality wine in their range and people think that depends on price. It is now not value for money anymore and best avoided. Blanc de blancs Pre Moet = £39 approx. Post Moet=£89. Same Wine. Work it out for yourself.🍾🤨

[dutchie01]

Just now, GMB said:

Ruinart was and still is a good champagne house and was usually great value/quality for money.

Since Moet bought them out they have kept the character and style but almost doubled the price. Moet have not interfered with the product.

We visited the house and cellars a few years back - very impressive. You can still book a visit, I think, but now they want about £25 ( check current prices)  for the privilege -but you will get to taste the whole range -probably about £25+ worth of champagne.😊

Why has the price gone up? Simply because Moet want a perceived quality wine in their range and people think that depends on price. It is now not value for money anymore and best avoided. Blanc de blancs Pre Moet = £39 approx. Post Moet=£89. Same Wine. Work it out for yourself.🍾🤨

So what is your preferred alternative to Ruinart? Pol Roger?

[GMB]

Not tried Pol Roger for years. As I mentioned earlier one of the nicest champagnes out there is the Aldi Premier Cru. Made by the respected house Philizot et Fils.

 

Just hide the bottle when serving it to a wine expert and they will be completely foxed.

 

If someone else is paying it has to be Bollinger or if wealthy Dom Perignon. Then maybe Veuve Cliquot at a pinch.

BTW It pays to keep the wines cellared for 2- 3 yrs, they will benefit.

 

Don't take my word for it - from the guardian recently -: The Co-op and Aldi champagnes were rated more highly than the most expensive champagne the panel tasted. Veuve Clicquot Yellow Label brut champagne, which costs £47 a bottle, received a score of 77%. While the panel said drinkers would not be disappointed by its “classy and crisp taste”, they concluded there were “plenty of cheaper champagnes on the market that are just as, if not more, delicious”.

Aldi’s Veuve Monsigny premier cru champagne came a close second with a score of 81% and so also earned the consumer champion’s coveted “best buy” award. The £21.99 Aldi fizz showcased “fresh fruit flavours against a savoury backbone”

 

From Decanter ( the Blanc de Noirs ) philizot et Fils, which also makes Aldi's superbly priced Veuve Monsigny Brut NV, has come out with another Champagne that punches well above its weight in this very elegant Pinot Noir-Pinot Meunier blend. Juicy red apple and berry fruitiness joins crisp apple acidity and creamy, nutty autolytic notes. It comes in a gift box so perfect for Christmas – if you don't pop it open yourself first.

Some Philizot medals:

[H3XME]

What's this issue about parking fees at hotels? Yes, some are paid, and some (rarely) are free but at the of the day, I am looking for a hotel that is convenient. If I'm going to Edinburgh for a weekend away, I look for a hotel in the City Centre so everything is walking distance away for us. If you go to large busy cities like that, there is no way you should expect free parking. If they have it, it's a nice surprise, if not, understandable. It's been the case for many years, leaving the car at the NCP down the road for something like £16/day. Small price to pay for the overall convenience, no?

Why go out of your way to find a hotel, not just with parking, but one with a FREE parking out of principle? If you find something like that it certainly won't be in the City Centre or it won't be cheaper overall because you'll have to either get a Taxi or Public Transport to get where you want to go from your hotel.. I can't imagine anything worse than going for a weekend away and getting on a bus or calling a cab after a little pub crawl just because the hotel I chose had free parking but is in the middle of bumf*ck nowhere 2+ miles away from the City Centre. 🤣

Same thing goes for towns like Shrewsbury, which is actually quite local to me. It's not a huge town, it's all very "traditional" and old, space is an issue (look at the property prices in the UK!) so it's completely NORMAL that the majority of hotels, especially the little ones, won't have parking at all.. and that they're quite pricey.

We drive everywhere we go, and this never once bothered me to be honest. It's a NORMAL thing that 1) Hotels don't always have parking 2) Hotels charge for parking if they have it..(If they don't have it, you go elsewhere and Pay, so might as well pay the Hotel for a parking right there) It's capitalism, get over it. You pay for convenience. Just because a hotel has a car park doesn't mean it should be free. If it is, bonus, but if not, what's the problem? It's like going to a restaurant and asking for FREE food at the end of the day just because they didn't sell out and you know they'll throw it away when they close.

We're going to Penrith in the North Lakes this weekend. Found a lovely hotel with good reviews on booking.com for £95/night. Have I even considered looking for one with parking? No.. Why would I? It's a small town, I know I'll have to park somewhere on the road or on a public car park. Do I check if they have air con? Mini bar? Certainly not. I don't need it nor care about it.

[Boomer54]

9 minutes ago, H3XME said:

What's this issue about parking fees at hotels? Yes, some are paid, and some (rarely) are free but at the of the day, I am looking for a hotel that is convenient. If I'm going to Edinburgh for a weekend away, I look for a hotel in the City Centre so everything is walking distance away for us. If you go to large busy cities like that, there is no way you should expect free parking. If they have it, it's a nice surprise, if not, understandable. It's been the case for many years, leaving the car at the NCP down the road for something like £16/day. Small price to pay for the overall convenience, no?

Why go out of your way to find a hotel, not just with parking, but one with a FREE parking out of principle? If you find something like that it certainly won't be in the City Centre or it won't be cheaper overall because you'll have to either get a Taxi or Public Transport to get where you want to go from your hotel.. I can't imagine anything worse than going for a weekend away and getting on a bus or calling a cab after a little pub crawl just because the hotel I chose had free parking but is in the middle of bumf*ck nowhere 2+ miles away from the City Centre. 🤣

Same thing goes for towns like Shrewsbury, which is actually quite local to me. It's not a huge town, it's all very "traditional" and old, space is an issue (look at the property prices in the UK!) so it's completely NORMAL that the majority of hotels, especially the little ones, won't have parking at all.. and that they're quite pricey.

We drive everywhere we go, and this never once bothered me to be honest. It's a NORMAL thing that 1) Hotels don't always have parking 2) Hotels charge for parking if they have it..(If they don't have it, you go elsewhere and Pay, so might as well pay the Hotel for a parking right there) It's capitalism, get over it. You pay for convenience. Just because a hotel has a car park doesn't mean it should be free. If it is, bonus, but if not, what's the problem? It's like going to a restaurant and asking for FREE food at the end of the day just because they didn't sell out and you know they'll throw it away when they close.

We're going to Penrith in the North Lakes this weekend. Found a lovely hotel with good reviews on booking.com for £95/night. Have I even considered looking for one with parking? No.. Why would I? It's a small town, I know I'll have to park somewhere on the road or on a public car park. Do I check if they have air con? Mini bar? Certainly not. I don't need it nor care about it.

That's the most commonsense that is going to get written on this issue.

[Bluemarlin]

21 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Also, sometimes it is just hidden within costs of hotel as per your contract comparison, but sometimes there are two hotels for the same price, offering same service, just one has free parking and other doesn't. Same comparison can be used for any other service that hotel has, for example I may not use hotel pool, but that pool is included in my hotel price regardless... or sometimes hotels charge separately for the pool. Now as I don't care about hotel pool and for me that is optional, I may ignore the charge for the pool and still say in that hotel, but parking when I am driving is not optional for me, so I will choose hotel that has free parking. 

The other problem I see - many hotels used to have free parking, and they generally have plenty of parking spaces, but because of politics and being woke, they now started charging for parking in their car parks "because they are on the mission to fix injustice in the world and punish people that they consider should be punished"... no thank you - I don't want politics to be included with my hotel room at an extra cost.

Ahh, so it's entirely subjective, in the sense you don't mind charges for a pool, as you don't use it, but dislike one's for parking. It's the same principle though, as the pool is still there, whether it's empty or not. Perhaps you can get someone to rewrite the matrix into Linas World 🙂

I doubt it's anything to do with politics either, and more about revenue. Bit like those signs in the bathroom asking you to re-use towels to save the polar bears, rather than for reducing their cleaning costs.

You'd love the US Linas, as some places even add a "resort fee" onto the bill. I've also heard that some hotels add on a "parking recapture charge", to maintain the car park, which everyone has to pay, car or not.

Personally, when I used to stay in central London I used to use valet parking. It was obviously more expensive than self park, but at least you felt you got some value for your money. In fact, with the right car, some places would even let you park in the reserved spaces they had out the front of the hotel.

[Bluemarlin]

3 hours ago, Boomer54 said:

That's the most commonsense that is going to get written on this issue.

We don't encourage that kind of thing round here 🙂

[GMB]

The last time I had any common sense was in 1968 when I sold my 1961 Vauxhall Victor FBW estate for £30. The filler was holding the car together as all the metal parts had rusted away. The engine exploded on the M1 near Watford. A new replacement reconditioned engine was fitted by the Regent garage. That also exploded 2 yrs later.

[Linas.P]

25 minutes ago, Bluemarlin said:

Ahh, so it's entirely subjective

I doubt it's anything to do with politics either

You'd love the US Linas

Personally, when I used to stay in central London I used to use valet parking. It was obviously more expensive than self park, but at least you felt you got some value for your money.

Who said it is objective? Yes people choose hotels based on what they like and value or need that day. If I am not driving then I would not care if car park is paid or not paid, or even exists. But when I drive I would not use hotel that does not offer free parking (unless there are extremely compelling reasons). Overtime, I build preference to certain hotels, so perhaps if hotel offers free parking when I have car and I like their service, next time I will stay there even if I don't drive. It is just personal priorities so it is mostly subjective.  

I am not speculating here - I know it does. I know that local councils puts certain restrictions on parking... and when it comes to absolutelly anything related to their approval they will put parking as bargaining chip. As I said "if you don't make that parking paid, wont allow you to refurbish". Also now there are woke people in management and workforce and some hotels started charging for parking as they think it is "environmentally friendly to punish guests who drive". So it is both personal politics and world view and sometimes just politics. 

That is why I don't go to US... actually many more reasons, like I just generally don't find US attractive or interesting destination. Also I don't tip and remove "suggested" tip or service charge, unless I really like service (like if they really go above and beyond). 

I said that also - if it adds value (and valet parking does add value) then I don't mind paying for it. I simply don't see being allowed to self park next to sign that I am doing it at "my own risk" as "value add".

For example if there was free car park and somebody wants to make me pay for it, then they have to offer the actual service. Parking the car is not a service... they either have to do valet, or have to clean it, or have to guarantee it's security. That is a service and I happy to pay for it.

Finally, I have noticed the trend of hotels turning car parks that used to be free and can be free to paid ones... because of all reason above. So some common sense has to be applied - yes we know some hotels charge for parking, because they always charged for parking, because they have very limited space and are in area where it is hard to expand that space. Yet there is now new trend (of last 20 years probably) where car parking is becomes paid for no reason e.g. quiet family run hotel in country side where car park is basically just a field with virtually unlimited space. In the past they just said "yeah park in that field just around the corner", now they say "we offer car park for a £5 fee". The field cost nothing for them to maintain, does not add any value, but they now decided to add arbitrary charge. So in such case I vote with my valet and go to stay elsewhere and instead of making £5 out of me they lose customer who pays maybe £100 for a night. They have a principle and I have a principle. 

[GMB]

Valet parking? I would not trust anyone to drive my car away from a hotel. Too many potential problems.

I was only offered it once and I declined. The ( very posh ) hotel offered to park my VW I ton van for me. I saw that they parked all the rolls and bentleys etc in a small field behind the hotel with no supervision or attendant. My 1 ton van was just as precious to me as someone's Roller at the time.

[Alan305]

4 hours ago, H3XME said:

… Same thing goes for towns like Shrewsbury, which is actually quite local to me. It's not a huge town, it's all very "traditional" and old, space is an issue (look at the property prices in the UK!) so it's completely NORMAL that the majority of hotels, especially the little ones, won't have parking at all.. and that they're quite pricey...

I remember staying at the Prince Rupert in Shrewsbury in the 1980’s. When you checked in, valet parking drove your car to their remote car park. After breakfast they gave you back your car keys, with a map, then off you walked to find your car.

[H3XME]

2 minutes ago, Alan305 said:

I remember staying at the Prince Rupert in Shrewsbury in the 1980’s. When you checked in, valet parking drove your car to their remote car park. After breakfast they gave you back your car keys, with a map, then off you walked to find your car.

I know the one! I don't think that you can drive to it anymore unless you're in a taxi or delivery van.

[Gary H]

I haven't stayed anywhere with valet parking. Indeed - I don't think I trust anyone else (beyond my father - who's now getting to an age where he's not really wanting to do that much driving any more) to drive my car. If I allowed it to happen, I'd imagine it would end up being squeezed into a narrow bay or similar. I can be quite fussy over how and where I park.