Fuel - E5 or E10: What do you use?

[HGUS]

Just read this article from the Times, albeit a year old, and was wondering who uses which fuel type and have you seen any differences or have any preferences?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/income-budgeting/cost-of-living-crisis/is-e5-petrol-more-economical-than-e10#:~:text=But E5 is more expensive,therefore get you 121 miles.

[Spock66]

Supermarket E5 for me, I think this works out about cost neutral, extra cost negated by slightly better mileage.

[Malc1]

Of course you MUST factor in some older cars MUST use E5 for low ethanol content to prevent essentials plastics rot 

Malc 

[J Henderson]

52 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

Supermarket E5 for me, I think this works out about cost neutral, extra cost negated by slightly better mileage.

This.

In my case, exclusively Tesco Momentum.

[wharfhouse]

Costco E5 for virtually all my fuel - I have tested E5 and E10 quite extensively (as I do the same journeys a lot) and using E5 definitely saves me money over using E10 so long as the price difference between the two is around 6/7p per litre (some supermarkets have a similiar price differential). The price difference between E5 and E10 of the branded fuels (like Shell and BP) is much higher and so I don't think E5 using those brands would save money. The car also runs quieter and smoother on Costco E5 over any E10 so an added bonus.

[Spock66]

47 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Of course you MUST factor in some older cars MUST use E5 for low ethanol content to prevent essentials plastics rot 

I suspect if E10 causes damage then by definition E5 must also cause damage, but will just take longer for the problem to manifest itself.

[Malc1]

7 minutes ago, Spock66 said:

I suspect if E10 causes damage then by definition E5 must also cause damage, but will just take longer for the problem to manifest itself.

Shell V5 and Tesco momentum have zilch ethanol I understand 

it’s the ethanol that’s the plastics killer in older cars 

Malc 

[GMB]

3 hours ago, J Henderson said:

In my case, exclusively Tesco Momentum.

For me it is Shell Vpower in the isF and the Motorbike,  the poor old 200t has to settle for tesco momentum 99 due to rip-off Shell pricing.

They are all doing very well thank you. I know it may be a waste of money but because I love them they only get the best!🥸

As far as the other stuff goes , E10 is it?,  I would not go near it at any price for fear of damaging the engine.

[oldcarman]

Started using E10 when it was introduced, but noticed a 10 mpg drop in consumption, and the car felt more sluggish, so back to E5, unless it's unavailable and I'm desperate. Always use E5 plus ethanol inhibitor/preserver in all my garden machinery.

[KentColin]

Has to be E5 in my motorbikes  but E10 in my UX as the car gets a lot more use.

[Huwge]

16 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Shell V5 and Tesco momentum have zilch ethanol I understand 

it’s the ethanol that’s the plastics killer in older cars 

Malc 

Both Shell and Tesco contain ethanol. Esso did the only ethanol free but that changed in September. As far as I'm aware there is no ethanol free fuel in the UK any longer

[Malc1]

then the Shell V5 and Tesco Momentum are those with the very least .  indeed the Sainsbury E5 is only 97 octane ..  the robbers !  🤑

Malc

[Harrier Man]

I consider two factors. One is price; this time last year there was a massive 32p/ltr difference between Esso E5 and Asda E10 and I couldn't justify the higher price of E5. The other factor is that I have a PHEV meaning that I have only added 18 tankful's of petrol in the last 15 months. Methanol absorbs moisture more easily than petrol so if the fuel is sitting in the tank unused for weeks on end (which it does sometimes) then it will have absorbed water, E10 more than E5 because of the higher methanol content. I don't think moisture is good for the engine or related components.

In practice, if I am doing a long trip and/or filling regularly than E10 is acceptable. If I don't anticipate running the ICE for a period, I will try and ensure that the majority of the fuel is E5. Subjectively, the car runs better on E5. When I do fill with E5, it is usually Tesco Momentum due to availability and the more reasonable price difference.

[HGUS]

I've been running mostly on EV but next week I'll be doing a few hundred miles so will give the E5 a try and see how it goes.

[GMB]

Don't do it. Your carburettor will drop off.🤥

[HGUS]

1 hour ago, GMB said:

Don't do it. Your carburettor will drop off.🤥

That would be inconvenient wouldn't it! 🤪

[flotsam]

On 11/23/2023 at 5:07 PM, Spock66 said:

I suspect if E10 causes damage then by definition E5 must also cause damage, but will just take longer for the problem to manifest itself.

Or perhaps it's got enough ethanol to cause as much damage anyway.

[Sundance]

Some still say that Esso E5 has zero ethanol in it.  Who exactly are we to believe? This is a proper old chestnut, pour yourself a (very) large drink and off you go in search of the many and numerous threads on here covering this topic.

There is so much rumour, speculation and anecdotal misinformation about E5 & E10 that it's difficult to establish exactly what's right and what's wrong.

As I understand it the facts as presented are (1) E5 has less (5%) ethanol in it than E10, (2) ethanol is hygroscopic (ie. it absorbs water) hence (3) higher ethanol content in petrol can be damaging OVER TIME to certain seals & components, even metals, within fuel systems, (4) E10 has a lower energy density than E5 which can reduce fuel efficiency and (5) E10 (95 Octane) is cheaper at the pumps than E5 (99 Octane).

The consequent, and understandable, speculation surrounds what is meant by 'OVER TIME', so how long does such degradation take?  Then, does the degree of ethanol really affect the efficiency of the engine?  Who can be believed about what fuel is good (or bad) for what engine? Research Institutions? Vehicle manufacturers? Automotive or media critics? Is there an underlying commercial bias? 

It really kicked off when E10 first hit the headlines but now the hearsay and criticism have died down to such a point where I'm not at all sure where we stand on REAL FACTS.

[Malc1]

20 minutes ago, Sundance said:

I'm not at all sure where we stand on REAL FACTS

sadly that pertains to almost any knowledgeable subject

Malc

[wharfhouse]

16 minutes ago, Sundance said:

Some still say that Esso E5 has zero ethanol in it.  Who exactly are we to believe? This is a proper old chestnut, pour yourself a (very) large drink and off you go in search of the many and numerous threads on here covering this topic.

There is so much rumour, speculation and anecdotal misinformation about E5 & E10 that it's difficult to establish exactly what's right and what's wrong.

As I understand it the facts as presented are (1) E5 has less (5%) ethanol in it than E10, (2) ethanol is hygroscopic (ie. it absorbs water) hence (3) higher ethanol content in petrol can be damaging OVER TIME to certain seals & components, even metals, within fuel systems, (4) E10 has a lower energy density than E5 which can reduce fuel efficiency and (5) E10 (95 Octane) is cheaper at the pumps than E5 (99 Octane).

The consequent, and understandable, speculation surrounds what is meant by 'OVER TIME', so how long does such degradation take?  Then, does the degree of ethanol really affect the efficiency of the engine?  Who can be believed about what fuel is good (or bad) for what engine? Research Institutions? Vehicle manufacturers? Automotive or media critics? Is there an underlying commercial bias? 

It really kicked off when E10 first hit the headlines but now the hearsay and criticism have died down to such a point where I'm not at all sure where we stand on REAL FACTS.

Only thing I know is that over many tens of thousands of miles I have compared E10 to E5 and can say that without any doubt in my mind that E5 offers at least 5% and up to 10% better fuel consumption than E10 (comparing the same brand) and that the car runs quieter on E5. Some of that gain is likely due to less ethanol in E5 than E10 and some due to the higher octane rating and some due to whatever other addives are in E5 over E10, but I don't know what makes what contribution. If E5 is only a few pence more than E10 it's a no brainier for me financially to put E5 in. I now use Costco fuel almost exclusively and the difference in price between E5 and E10 makes E5 the financial choice. That same calculation may not work for other brands where the E5 is substantially more than E10. 

[Malc1]

I have 2 x Ls400s that are recommended for E5 fuel:

I have noted over these many past months that Sainsbury whilst only offering E5 at 97 octane ALSO ALWAYS charges a 10p / ltr premium over their E10

NOW     Tesco offer their E5 Momentum at 99 octane and always just 7p / ltr uplift in price

If I find Shell V Power then I understand that E5 has no ethanol ( maybe )

 

I also have my 2006 Honda Legend on E10 fuel only 

Malc

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

Think You,ve Got It Spot On Here Rowley

[Sundance]

Just to add to my earlier rant I should also mention the paradoxical narrative about whether E5 or E10 has the same constituent parts at every pump. The different retailers would have you think that Esso fuel is of better quality than Tesco, or that Shell is better than CostCo or Sainsburys.

Well, in the absence of indisputable fact my guess is as good as yours and believe you me it can only be a GUESS.

The one standout FACT currently is that the cost of fuel at the pumps has dropped (in my area anyway) by over 15p/ltr over recent weeks and arguably should still be on the decline. My last trip to Shell (E10) cost me £1.39p/ltr whereas at the same outlet 5 weeks ago it was £1.55p/ltr.

However, my advice is to take advantage now because oil shipments in the Middle East are being suspended due to attacks by militants and the price of crude is on the UP again! 🙄

[Jgtcracer]

12 hours ago, Malc1 said:

NOW     Tesco offer their E5 Momentum at 99 octane and always just 7p / ltr uplift in price

I’ve been using Tesco Momentum exclusively in the RCF for at least 6 months and reports around 10% increase in fuel economy.  I’m saving money ‘per mile’ by using it against standard E10.  Car seems to run better on any E5 vs any E10 and I’ve got £30 extra in my bank per month that I otherwise wouldn’t….
 

No negatives for me and for what it’s worth, didn’t find any further benefits by using Vpower so don't.

[Bluemarlin]

On 12/19/2023 at 9:06 AM, Sundance said:

Some still say that Esso E5 has zero ethanol in it.  Who exactly are we to believe? This is a proper old chestnut, pour yourself a (very) large drink and off you go in search of the many and numerous threads on here covering this topic.

 

I have no definitive answer to that, but can comment on my experience.

Due to zero ethanol  content, I mainly used Esso E5, simply becausse I found it gave me reliably better mpg than anything else. Esso now state that that it's no  longer zero ethanol, and that at least appeaars to be the case, as I'm getting at least 2-3mpg less with Esso E5 than I used to. I've since swtiched to BP which seems to be better.