So Tesla’s Range isn’t that good either

[wivenhoe]

I am not saying the RZ’s range isn’t a disappointment but other manufacturers aren’t being as honest about range degradation. The EPA range (the test all US reviewers quote to  criticise the RZ) of a Tesla Y Long Range with heating range is only 159 miles.

Article in The Telegraph. No doubt the Tesla fans won’t believe this but it demonstrates there are more truthful manufacturers who are slighted and there are manufacturers who just lie.

 

 

[Boomer54]

51 minutes ago, wivenhoe said:

I am not saying the RZ’s range isn’t a disappointment but other manufacturers aren’t being as honest about range degradation. The EPA range (the test all US reviewers quote to  criticise the RZ) of a Tesla Y Long Range with heating range is only 159 miles.

Article in The Telegraph. No doubt the Tesla fans won’t believe this but it demonstrates there are more truthful manufacturers who are slighted and there are manufacturers who just lie.

 

 

I caught that one also. Glad I am not a shareholder. I am forever wary of the 'golden boy' companies. because it always seems just a matter of time unless the gloss comes off.

tesla range request us justice - Search (bing.com)

 

[talaipwros]

285 miles real life test.

 

 

 

 

 

[ColinBarber]

Legally the car manufacturers have to use figures from the official tests however both the EPA and WLTP tests aren't suited for testing EV range, mainly because the average speed is low where EV efficiency is high - almost the opposite of an ICE vehicle.

[Boomer54]

Thanks, I didn't know that.

[John Adams]

Talking about range, I've just come back from a very early 80 mile round trip. All 30 and 40mph A roads. Very little traffic and 8 deg c outside temperature. I had to have the fan on because of steaming up. Average speed was 36mph  and total average  of 2.4miles/kwh. Gawd knows what it would be on a motorway but not impressed. Was expecting better.

Incidentally I saw a UK range test last night on You Tube and the guy covered 140 miles miles at an average speed of 60mph and 3miles/kwh. More importantly though, he said the useable Battery capacity was 67kwh but he didn't know whether it had a software update because it was a dealer demo car. Could be wrong I suspect

[Malc1]

today reading the Toyota prediction that their new EV likely in about 4 years will be a more sensible car with a 745 mile range and maybe a 10 minute recharge !

That's going to be the one to wait for and which the Coys Accts will approve of .  if you have a company car that is !

I tend to believe Toyota more than i would the MG Chinese or Tesla et al

Malc

[eightk]

What an EV needs is accuracy - when you start a journey you need to know it’s estimating your remaining range correctly. I haven’t driven a Lexus/Toyota EV but Hyundai/Kia are very accurate with their onboard guesswork, whereas Tesla wasn’t as good by a long way. Literally.
Add in the slow 80-100% charging times I experienced and the 10-20% you ideally need to keep in reserve at the empty end of the Battery and you’re left with 70% of usable capacity at best with a Tesla on a long trip. Then assume you’re just using superchargers because they’re the only ones guaranteed to work and a long trip is strung between wherever the superchargers have been positioned, or it was pre 2022 before I went back to petrol for long journeys. 

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

today reading the Toyota prediction that their new EV likely in about 4 years will be a more sensible car with a 745 mile range and maybe a 10 minute recharge !

That's going to be the one to wait for and which the Coys Accts will approve of .  if you have a company car that is !

I tend to believe Toyota more than i would the MG Chinese or Tesla et al

Malc

They have been saying for years that it is a couple of years out, possibly to convince people to wait for Toyota to catch up rather than jump ship.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/toyotas-next-move-solid-state-batteries

Until it appears, I wouldn't believe anything.

[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, Malc1 said:

today reading the Toyota prediction that their new EV likely in about 4 years will be a more sensible car with a 745 mile range and maybe a 10 minute recharge !

That's going to be the one to wait for and which the Coys Accts will approve of .  if you have a company car that is !

I tend to believe Toyota more than i would the MG Chinese or Tesla et al

Malc

Not sure people would defer for 4 years even if that timetable was accurate. On the otherhand if it were to be truly gamechanging then it wouldn't bode well for residual car value on those cars that suddenly became technologically obsolesent (relatively speaking).

[Malc1]

Technologically obsolescent seems to be flowing along almost each and every day with EVs sadly ! OR maybe thankfully 🤔

Malc 

[MartinH]

Anecdata: a 'friend of a friend' has a two-year-old Tesla (idk which model), whose fully-charged capacity is now 20% less than when new. 

So yes, bin it when Battery capacity falls short of need, just like a mobile phone.

[ColinBarber]

48 minutes ago, MartinH said:

Anecdata: a 'friend of a friend' has a two-year-old Tesla (idk which model), whose fully-charged capacity is now 20% less than when new. 

So yes, bin it when battery capacity falls short of need, just like a mobile phone.

That's why manufacturers typically provide 8 year warranties in case of issues. The majority don't suffer anything like that - but obviously the media like to jump on anything negative to generate clicks.

The following is Which? research which is probably a bit more representative:

 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/the-truth-about-electric-car-battery-degradation-apYqu1y6IYnr

 

[AWC]

9 hours ago, Malc1 said:

today reading the Toyota prediction that their new EV likely in about 4 years will be a more sensible car with a 745 mile range and maybe a 10 minute recharge !

That's going to be the one to wait for and which the Coys Accts will approve of .  if you have a company car that is !

I tend to believe Toyota more than i would the MG Chinese or Tesla et al

Malc

A 10 minute recharge for a decent sized Battery would need a 500kW charger so not a home job!

[PaulWhitt20]

9 minutes ago, AWC said:

A 10 minute recharge for a decent sized battery would need a 500kW charger so not a home job!

Exactly, you still have to put the same number of electrons in the Battery. The quicker you do it the more have to go down the cable at once, hence a higher current. Which will be too much for domestic use and will require specialist equipment. 

[ColinBarber]

13 hours ago, AWC said:

A 10 minute recharge for a decent sized battery would need a 500kW charger so not a home job!

If you are at home you just charge over night though? Rapid charging is useful to minimise wait times when you are on a trip.

[MartinH]

1 hour ago, ColinBarber said:

the media like to jump on anything negative to generate clicks

This was not reported by any media — it's anecdotal and undoubtedly an exaggeration. The owner's golf club mates tell him they avoid parking next to his Tesla lest their own car be trashed by the likely conflagration, so 19th-hole banter.

[Malc1]

11 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

If you at home you just charge over night though? Rapid charging is useful to minimise wait times when you are on a trip.

Simply surely, a rapid visit to the refuelling point ……. BP fuel / petrol station style where Toyota maybe have some preplanning with the likes of BP , Shell, Esso ……. Refuelling EVs needs to be simplified and this should work ok

Malc 

[ColinBarber]

10 minutes ago, MartinH said:

This was not reported by any media — it's anecdotal and undoubtedly an exaggeration. The owner's golf club mates tell him they avoid parking next to his Tesla lest their own car be trashed by the likely conflagration, so 19th-hole banter.

I understand in this instance but we have all seen similar stories in the media. The same as a very specific insurance quote for £9k that get made out as if it's now the norm, when most people will have received a ridiculous quote, or even refusal to quote, in their lifetime.

[dutchie01]

Charge at home and every morning you are good to go. One day ALL petrolstations will have chargingfacilities where you charge some 20% enough to bring you home again. Currently it depends what you use your car for. Drive 300 mls a month around where you live means 1 charge every 3 weeks. Drive around the country and do 1000 mls get a diesel.

[wivenhoe]

But the 285 miles for the Tesla was in good conditions. The article was that the true range in cold temperatures was severely degraded. My point is that all EV’s suffer in cold temps but some manufacturers are misleading with the actual range in winter. Look at the tests for a Tesla Y Long Range in winter with the heating on at its 159 miles - no worse than the RZ, yet not any better.
A similar article to the Telegraph reported that the very well considered Genesis G60 suffered 35% loss in winter - it’s inevitable with the current Battery tech.  

 

 

 

[wivenhoe]

11 hours ago, John Adams said:

Talking about range, I've just come back from a very early 80 mile round trip. All 30 and 40mph A roads. Very little traffic and 8 deg c outside temperature. I had to have the fan on because of steaming up. Average speed was 36mph  and total average  of 2.4miles/kwh. Gawd knows what it would be on a motorway but not impressed. Was expecting better.

Incidentally I saw a UK range test last night on You Tube and the guy covered 140 miles miles at an average speed of 60mph and 3miles/kwh. More importantly though, he said the useable battery capacity was 67kwh but he didn't know whether it had a software update because it was a dealer demo car. Could be wrong I suspect

John

I think you need to get your Battery checked. Over the last 2 days I covered 85 miles (recorded by my tracker) and charged to 100% at home tonight. The 85 miles was probably 80%+ on very fast duel carriageways. Sometimes a bit over 80  and generally 70. The temp was about 15c. I also preheated the car on one of the days when it wasn’t connected.  My charger says it took 31.5kw to 100% for 85 miles = 2.7 which allowing for preheat was probably nearer 2.9. I had the front seat on auto +2 and the radiant heater was on throughout. 
My dealer told me the upgrade is now on new cars and still expected available for current cars Q4 - fingers crossed. 

[F.A.]

2 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

But the 285 miles for the Tesla was in good conditions. The article was that the true range in cold temperatures was severely degraded. My point is that all EV’s suffer in cold temps but some manufacturers are misleading with the actual range in winter. Look at the tests for a Tesla Y Long Range in winter with the heating on at its 159 miles - no worse than the RZ, yet not any better.
A similar article to the Telegraph reported that the very well considered Genesis G60 suffered 35% loss in winter - it’s inevitable with the current battery tech.  

 

 

 

I agree that all EVs will see a drop in range during winter months. The point is that the Tesla Model Y can do 285 in good conditions but the  Rz can only do around 200 in good conditions probably with no AC / heater on too ( do people actually do this?) I think I would take the Tesla, despite the drop a similar Rz range during the winter months. You can  charge it up faster compared to the Rz too. 

[wivenhoe]

Accept your views - I achieve about 220 without much ac, except maybe the point about the charge rate. If you have a home charger then there is no difference in charge rate.
If you’re reliant on public chargers then other than the Tesla Superchargers there aren’t many chargers above 150kw which the RZ accepts.
However, there is only 2 minutes difference in 20% to 80% charge times between the RZ and Y Long Range. The manufactures mislead people by leading with say 250kw charge rate but once a Battery gets to say 50% then no matter what Ultra High Speed charger the car is on, the rate drops to say 100kw which is why the RZ and Tesla takes about the same time. Of course, if you only need to go from say 20% to 40% the Tesla on a Supercharger will be maybe 5 mins quicker. 

If I was using the car for business requiring mainly long drives then I certainly wouldn’t have considered the RZ. That said, I really dislike the look of the Tesla’s and don’t fancy driving without a HUD or Speedo in front of me. Each to their own !

Over the time I have had the RZ I have come to realise that there is a lot of misleading stuff about EV’s, particularly charge rates. How many manufacturers make it clear that irrespective of the charger capacity the charge rate drops off significantly so that 80% to 100% takes longer than 20% to 80% or that in cold temperatures range loss can be up to 40%. People keep comparing against mythical range and charge rates when in real range terms the cars are far more similar than it appears. 
Apologies for extremely long response !

[talaipwros]

On 10/25/2023 at 9:59 AM, wivenhoe said:

I achieve about 220 without much ac

Wow, that's excellent, do you still achieve that?