Insurance payout after theft, lower than expected

[Tk561]

Hi there

My RX 450h 2021 was stolen using the can bus method just over a week ago in London. It was due to have the anti theft plate fitted just a few days later. 

The insurance offer was quite a bit lower than expected. I have researched the same model, year and similar mileage on the Lexus website and Autotrader to compare.   

The valuer told me that they take an average value across the country which seems a bit unusual as I would be looking within 50 miles at most  

He also told me that he would not accept any examples from me of other cars for sale or change the offer.

The only option if I disagree is to dispute this offer, in which case it gets passed to an engineer who will evaluate the offer but will not take any examples from me. After this I can complain to the Financial Ombudsman. This may not be successful as by the time they look at the complaint the value of the car would have dropped.  

Has anyone had experience of this and managed to get a better offer, which steps did you take?

thanks in advance

tk561

 

 
 

[LenT]

3 hours ago, Tk561 said:

He also told me that he would not accept any examples from me of other cars for sale or change the offer.

Firstly, commiserations on your loss.  

The Valuer works for your Insurer.  Claiming that he takes an ‘average’ value across the country’ sounds a bit disingenuous.  Is he really able to show that he has identified ALL the available comparable models of Lexus cars in order to arrive at an average?  Or has he perhaps cherry picked the lower value examples?

You might ask to see his compilation of available examples on which his ‘average’ value is based.  If you can show that your examples, compiled from respected trade sources such as Autotrader, are, in fact, more representative of the current regional model value, then I would be inclined to direct your arguments to the Insurers directly.

I would also read your policy closely to be clear exactly what your premiums have been buying you.  Insurers have been known to ‘overlook’ some of the more generous aspects of a policy they’re selling when it comes to paying out.

For example, are they providing a loan car while your loss and compensation are being resolved?  It may be cheaper for them to settle quickly at a higher value, then have a drawn out argument while their other costs mount up.

Finally, do you belong to, say, the AA or RAC?  They offer Members legal assistance and/or advice and may be able to provide an independent market value.

When an HGV wrote off my Honda Accord, they were my Insurers and very helpful in dealing with the other Insurer. 

{Although there was still a degree of comparing different examples, despite the fact that it was the other Insurer who was totally liable!)

Presumably you want to replace your Lexus with a similar - or possibly newer - model.  Inevitably there comes a point when refusing to compromise over small sums is simply depriving yourself of the opportunity to buy what may be immediately available.

I hope it all works out for you.

[Spock66]

I suspect you may get a different experience if your insurance policy can claim off the other party, but are very tight when paying out themselves.

I would be asking the insurance company to find a like for like vehicle at the offer value they are proposing.

[rayaans]

12 hours ago, Tk561 said:

Hi there

My RX 450h 2021 was stolen using the can bus method just over a week ago in London. It was due to have the anti theft plate fitted just a few days later. 

The insurance offer was quite a bit lower than expected. I have researched the same model, year and similar mileage on the Lexus website and Autotrader to compare.   

The valuer told me that they take an average value across the country which seems a bit unusual as I would be looking within 50 miles at most  

He also told me that he would not accept any examples from me of other cars for sale or change the offer.

The only option if I disagree is to dispute this offer, in which case it gets passed to an engineer who will evaluate the offer but will not take any examples from me. After this I can complain to the Financial Ombudsman. This may not be successful as by the time they look at the complaint the value of the car would have dropped.  

Has anyone had experience of this and managed to get a better offer, which steps did you take?

thanks in advance

tk561

 

 
 

You need to make your case about why your car was worth more than offered in writing to them.

I.e. you definitely need to send over similar examples on autotrader or Lexus dealer websites atleast 5. 

You also need to make the point that currently CAP prices that they use are not representative of the current market.

You also need to send over service history / MOT / Invoices if applicable for the vehicle. 

You also need to make the point across that the insurer has a responsibility to put you in the same position as you were prior to the vehicle being stolen and their offer would considerably put you out of pocket. 

You can always threaten to take to small claims court as well as the financial ombudsman. 

Its common for insurers to give you a low ball figure to begin with. 

Make sure you don't limit yourself to 50 miles when searching similiar vehicles by the way as they do take the value across the country into account, not just in one area

[larryadler]

I think it would be very beneficial to member on this site to indicate  the year mileage and condition of your vehicle. Not asking for an accurate figure as offered by the insurer but what you consider the correct market value to be. 
The assessor seems to be typical of todays customer service, take the offer or get nowt, your input will not be considered, what I say goes complex!

It would be even more advantageous to name the insurer, so that no one else gives them any future business!

I think this is typical in every walk of life these days unfortunately, you pay the required premium then when the claim goes in, that’s when you find out how good the insurer is, out of interest do they promote their Defacto rating.

This is oh so frustrating at a time like this when you should be getting their full support.

Best wishes.

[steve2006]

Ask them to find you a car with the same colour, specifications, prior condition, mileage and history as yours for the money being offered.

[Frank the Hornet]

Whilst you are in dialogue with this maybe worth considering  legal expenses cover  ( if you indeed have it normally with either your Motor or Home insurance ) Particularly your home cover often this covers disputes with goods or services bought which indeed should cover car Insurance.

Work checking both, a call in should not  affect your Home / car insurance as not regarded as a claim. The initial helpline will give initial guidance and what you should do to resolve the matter before any formal advice  (if any ) is given.

This may give you more leverage in your challenge with your Insurer.

[Frank the Hornet]

meant to say "worth checking both " !!

[LenT]

5 hours ago, steve2006 said:

Ask them to find you a car with the same colour, specifications, prior condition, mileage and history as yours for the money being offered.

Excellent suggestion that puts the onus back on your Insurers and applies the principle that you shouldn’t be disadvantaged by your loss.  However, I think Insurers may only do this in certain circumstances- so again worth examining your policy to see what conditions may apply.

I thought that this adjudication by the Financial Ombudsman might be helpful.  It’s possibly not an exact comparison but might help you give your Insurers an incentive to settle!

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decisions-case-studies/case-studies/new-car-stolen-customer-isnt-offered-replacement

 

[Lydiamight]

Had a similar situation some years ago when my wife BMW 3 series estate was written off by a woman pulling out of their driveway without looking. The police were called as both drivers were admitted to hospital---thankfully with only very minor injuries. Their subsequent reportI apportioned the whole of the blame to the other driver.

I then informed her insurance company that I wasn't interested in their money---I merely wanted a vehicle of similar specification, age and mileage. As the car was a fairly unique specification that was going to be difficult. I accompanied my response with letter from my BMW dealer explaining how difficult it would be to source a similar vehicle and that in his opinion it would cost at least $X thousand pounds. Other insurance company paid out a very generous amount in full within a week without any further quibbles.

It might be worth approaching your Lexus dealer to ask if they would provide a similar letter saying, in their opinion, how much it would cost to replace your written off car.

[John Walker]

I was paid slightly more than what I paid for my stolen RX as it was insured for the market value meaning they considered how much I could’ve sold my car for at the moment of the theft. I find it that prices of these cars went up because despite the fact that I was paid more I couldn’t buy an RX with similar mileage/ specification. 
 

What spec and what mileage was your RX? 

[John Walker]

On the other hand the 2023 RX 450h+ Takumi or a 500h F Sport lost quite a bit of value. You can find a half a year old one for about 60-66k which new would’ve been around 82k 

[taffie999]

The purpose of insurance is to put you back in the same position you were in before your loss. You (and they) can find a realistic value for your car within minutes, based on age, condition, mileage etc. Send them examples of similar cars for sale. They accepted your policy and charged you a premium based partly on that value. This is why gap insurance is a con, it's only needed if car insurance is not fit for purpose. You should fight tooth and nail. including the ombudsman if necessary. 

[welland]

When starting a policy,  they always ask for the value of the vehicle.  I have never understood why they do this,  as it seems to bear little resemblance to the value offered when settling a total loss claim.

[Sundance]

7 hours ago, welland said:

When starting a policy,  they always ask for the value of the vehicle.  I have never understood why they do this,  as it seems to bear little resemblance to the value offered when settling a total loss claim.

My guess is because if you underestimate the value at inception and when claiming it turns out that your car is worth more then the insurer has a ready made argument to settle using the lower amount.

Then if you place a higher than market value on your car at outset the insurer can argue for setting a higher premium.

Insurer win-win.  Insured lose-lose.

[Boomer54]

Deleted because I am having a senior moment.

[Boomer54]

As an addendum that I really shouldn't have to state. CARS ARE A DEPRECIATING ASSET.

[LenT]

On 10/22/2023 at 6:22 PM, taffie999 said:

This is why gap insurance is a con, it's only needed if car insurance is not fit for purpose.

I don’t think it’s a con, but it’s only worth having in specific circumstances.  It should certainly only be taken out after reviewing what your main car insurance covers and offers in compensation for a total loss.

The AA cites a survey that finds a new car can lose up to 40% of its initial value in its first year - although the current chip shortage might well have reduced that.  But traditionally a new car suffered significant depreciation the moment you drove it off the forecourt.  Guaranteed Asset Protection insurance would bridge that gap between what you’d just paid and what it had just lost.

So it would, ideally, in the event of a write-off, enable you to buy another new car of the same spec.  So when I bought my new Honda Accord, I took it out.  When I replaced it with a two year-old Lexus, I didn’t.

I hope this AA article helps:

https://www.theaa.com/cars/gap-insurance#:~:text=GAP stands for Guaranteed Asset,purchase price of your car.

[Tk561]

Hi All

Thank you to all that replied.

My disputed case was passed to an engineer, who immediately increased the offer, making it very close to my expected figure, which I was happy with and have accepted.

The car was a 2021 RX with premium pack, 14k miles.

regards

Tk561

[John Walker]

12 minutes ago, Tk561 said:

Hi All

Thank you to all that replied.

My disputed case was passed to an engineer, who immediately increased the offer, making it very close to my expected figure, which was happy with and have accepted.

The car was a 2021 RX with premium pack, 14k miles.

regards

Tk561

That’s a nice car! Anything more than 38k I think it’s a good offer. 
 

Will you buy another one? 🙂 

[Tk561]

I’m not sure if I will get another RX or any other models that are prone to the CAN bus theft to be honest. Even an RX with the plate fitted, might not get taken but could result in damage during an attempt.   

 

 

[John Walker]

37 minutes ago, Tk561 said:

I’m not sure if I will get another RX or any other models that are prone to the CAN bus theft to be honest. Even an RX with the plate fitted, might not get taken but could result in damage during an attempt.   

 

 

I wasn’t sure either if I would have another one, but after shopping around and test driving different cars I ended up with another RX. 
Not too many luxury reliable cars with fairly low maintenance costs and warranty up to 10 years for free are available. And regardless of what you choose, as long as it’s a fairly new model it will be prone to theft so bare in mine to have a good steering lock all the time on and a tacham approved alarm, tracker and immobiliser. If you check the forums you will hear about Mercedes and Bmw’s being stolen a lot. Also most of the Bentley, Porsche and other premium car brands owners install extra security devices.