Electricity tariffs for charging

[Gazetta]

I am about to take delivery of my NX450h and was wondering if anyone has any experience of the cost benefits or pitfalls of the special tariffs for charging EV charging?

[ColinBarber]

You typically pay more for daytime electricity to get a cheaper overnight rate. So it would depend on how often you need to charge and if you could benefit by delaying other things (e.g. set dishwasher and washing machine to run overnight or overnight hot water heating via immersion etc.).

The best is probably Octopus Intelligent Go but you would need a compatible charger to qualify. 

[peniole]

Your need to charge at least 75Kwh a month just to break even on the heightened day tariff. That's about 260 miles of electric only driving at 3.5 miles per Kwh. Don't forget you also need to charge at certain times to get the cheap rates, so may at times be inconvenient. That calculation is based on a 20p saving per Kwh for charging and a 5p penalty for the rest of the time and a 300Kwh monthly home usage.

[Ken R]

I have recently switched to Octopus Go which gives 4 hours at 9p kWh from 12.30am. You are charged a higher rate than the standard variable tariff outwith these hours (approx 29p against 26p). Intelligent Octopus offers even lower rates offpeak however it depends upon the charger and vehicle compatibility. The Alfen charger/NX450h combination isn't recognised at present but hopefully will be added in the coming months. 

[steve2006]

There is normally a requirement to have a “smart” meter too.

Having now retired from working in the power distribution industry I haven’t kept up with domestic tariffs but understand the two rate (E7 and E10) tariffs have gone.

Most suppliers seem to be offering only 5 or 6 hours of early morning “cheap” rate at around 8p/KWh but with the average 7.5 KWh charger will that provide enough charge for your required mileage.

I would also imagine the daily rip off standing charge would also increase with EV tariffs as E7/E10 tariffs did.

When I began my career normal rate was 4.1p per KWh and cheap rate was 1.9p per KWh most of which came from coal fired power stations.

[peniole]

The standing charge does also increase by about 1.5 pounds a month, 5p a day. Factored into my calculation above.

[zanderblue]

9 hours ago, steve2006 said:

There is normally a requirement to have a “smart” meter too.

Having now retired from working in the power distribution industry I haven’t kept up with domestic tariffs but understand the two rate (E7 and E10) tariffs have gone.

Most suppliers seem to be offering only 5 or 6 hours of early morning “cheap” rate at around 8p/KWh but with the average 7.5 KWh charger will that provide enough charge for your required mileage.

I would also imagine the daily rip off standing charge would also increase with EV tariffs as E7/E10 tariffs did.

When I began my career normal rate was 4.1p per KWh and cheap rate was 1.9p per KWh most of which came from coal fired power stations.

E10 is not quite gone yet. I am on it and use my off peak tariffs by scheduling my heavy users to take advantage.

OVO keep asking if I want to change, but since it is an ‘evergreen’ tariff i just decline.

 

[Hayzee]

10 hours ago, Ken R said:

I have recently switched to Octopus Go which gives 4 hours at 9p kWh from 12.30am. You are charged a higher rate than the standard variable tariff outwith these hours (approx 29p against 26p). 

The Octopus Go tarrif 1st July to 30th September was 9.5p cheap rate and 29p normal rate, the latter being the same as their standard variable rate. Obviously that made it a no brainer, maybe they will do the same sometime in the future.

[peniole]

8 minutes ago, Hayzee said:

The Octopus Go tarrif 1st July to 30th September was 9.5p cheap rate and 29p normal rate, the latter being the same as their standard variable rate. Obviously that made it a no brainer, maybe they will do the same sometime in the future.

Maybe it depends on the region, but I doubt any region would have no penalty. Here's for the northwest it's now a 3.02p/kWh penalty, and the benefit is down to 18p/kWh difference:

GO:

Night rate (00:30 - 04:30):

9p / kWh

Day rate (04:30 - 00:30):

30.23p / kWh

Standing charge:

49.77p / day

 

Flexible (aka standard variable):

Electricity

• Unit rate:27.21 p/kWh
• Standing charge:49.77 p/day

[BonzoSPB]

The wife and I both have plugin hybrids which both take approx 2.5 hours to charge.

If I took on E-ON's electric car option I'd have a cheaper rate from midnight to 7am but the cost per KwH of electric for the rest of the day is more than what I pay now. If I was prepared to get up at 3am every morning to swap the charging cable between the cars I worked out I'd be very slightly better off but I'm not prepared to do that.

If we had a fully electric car that took approx 8 hours to charge it'd be worth swapping.

[Hayzee]

2 hours ago, peniole said:

Maybe it depends on the region, but I doubt any region would have no penalty. Here's for the northwest it's now a 3.02p/kWh penalty, and the benefit is down to 18p/kWh 

My comment only applied to the previous quarter when the Go and standard daytime rates were indeed the same. This quarter there is a 3p premium on daytime rates

[Ken R]

My tariff from 1 October -

29.96p kWh - Day rate

9.00p kWh - night rate (00.30-04.30)

Standing charge 60.02p per day

 

[RXtoNX]

My current Octopus Go tariff

9.00p KWh (00.30 - 04.30)

31.03p kWh Day rate

Day rate penalty is 0.31p KWh (normal rate 30.72p kWh) hence well worth being on the tariff

[Gazetta]

Thanks to all of you who have kindly taken the time to repsond, I appreciate it.

The standing charges on the availbale Octopus tariffs are all the same 49.77p/per day except for their Agile Octopus February 2023 v1 which is 41.61p/per day, cheaper however this tariff has variable half-hour charging based on wholesale prices (capped at 100p/kWh (Other suppliers are available).

Does anyone have a rough idea of how much electricity it takes to charge the NX450h+ from "flat" to "full" and how long it takes to charge? I have a Ohme wallbox 7 kWh charger installed. 

I hope to find time over the next week to draw up a spreadsheet and do the calculations based on 2 or 3 of the available octopus tariffs I will share it.

[Hayzee]

20 minutes ago, Gazetta said:

Does anyone have a rough idea of how much electricity it takes to charge the NX450h+ from "flat" to "full" and how long it takes to charge? I have a Ohme wallbox 7 kWh charger installed. 

The most my wallbox has fed my 450h (0 EV miles) is 14.28kwh which took 2h 26m. A couple of things to note: 1. There is some inevitable loss of energy from the wallbox to the vehicle so the car Battery will have received a few % points less than 14.28 kWh. 2. The wallbox charges at maximum kWh for around 2 hours then slowly throttles back as the on board car charger tapers the input kWh down to zero.

BTW Intelligent Octopus Go has a cheap rate of 7.5p/kWh and as you already have a Ohme box, which is supported, you should look at that option which is not the same as agile Octopus and has specific daytime and overnight (23.30 - 05.30) rates.

[Mobeam]

53 minutes ago, Gazetta said:

Thanks to all of you who have kindly taken the time to repsond, I appreciate it.

The standing charges on the availbale Octopus tariffs are all the same 49.77p/per day except for their Agile Octopus February 2023 v1 which is 41.61p/per day, cheaper however this tariff has variable half-hour charging based on wholesale prices (capped at 100p/kWh (Other suppliers are available).

Does anyone have a rough idea of how much electricity it takes to charge the NX450h+ from "flat" to "full" and how long it takes to charge? I have a Ohme wallbox 7 kWh charger installed. 

I hope to find time over the next week to draw up a spreadsheet and do the calculations based on 2 or 3 of the available octopus tariffs I will share it.

Hi Gary,

I have been using a OHME 7Kw charger for past year. 30% [flat] to 100% takes [as attached] 2 hours 20 minutes. The total energy used per charge is approx 12kw.  My current Octapus tariff is 20p per Kw....going up probably next year.  Hope this helps 

[Ken R]

3 hours ago, RXtoNX said:

My current Octopus Go tariff

9.00p KWh (00.30 - 04.30)

31.03p kWh Day rate

Day rate penalty is 0.31p KWh (normal rate 30.72p kWh) hence well worth being on the tariff

My day rate penalty is greater - 3.08p kWh (usual sv price 26.88p) but I still calculate that the Octopus Go tariff works out cheaper overall.

[Hayzee]

36 minutes ago, Ken R said:

My day rate penalty is greater - 3.08p kWh (usual sv price 26.88p) but I still calculate that the Octopus Go tariff works out cheaper overall.

Mine  is the same as yours Ken. Each monthly bill they generate gives the average cost per Kwh so I keep an eye on that to ensure it's sufficiently lower than the standard (non Go) variable daytime rate

[Gazetta]

Big thank you

On 10/13/2023 at 4:21 PM, Mobeam said:

Hi Gary,

I have been using a OHME 7Kw charger for past year. 30% [flat] to 100% takes [as attached] 2 hours 20 minutes. The total energy used per charge is approx 12kw.  My current Octapus tariff is 20p per Kw....going up probably next year.  Hope this helps 

Thanks David that is really useful info, just what I was looking for.

[Gazetta]

On the subject of tariffs, I have just been looking at the Octopus Agile tariff (historic half hour p/kWh prices available online) and the calculations based upon my electricity usage from Jan 1st this year to present day, show that I would have been better of by *£85 being on Agile (variable p/kWh and and 41.61p/day standing charge) than on my standard variable tariff (currently 25.92p/kWh and 47.4p/day standing charge). My average cost for the year to date is 30.12 p/kWh.

Agile peak prices of around 34p/kWh are between 4pm and 7pm, but can extend up to 8pm or 9pm and occasionally the peak price throughout much of the day (as the tariff is based upon grid demand, during cold snaps and in the winter months.)

Conclusion: If I manage to avoid using high use appliances during the peak evening periods and charging my car in the off peak times, (which occasionally go negative p/kWh - which means being paid to use electricity!) even assuming my *£85 saving will be eaten up by the November & December longer peak price periods, I may just try the agile tariff. 

 

[Herbie]

Good grief, this sounds far too complicated for me.

I seem to remember that the old Economy 7 rate was given during the night when it was quiet and demand was low. It won't be long before there are no quiet periods of low demand anymore, so nighttime electricity will soon cost as much as daytime rates.

[Hayzee]

Gary....you should still take a look at the intelligent Octopus Go rates. They may well be appropriate for you as they give cheap but certain night and day rates.

[Gazetta]

If you want help with the calculations, I will post a file one here then you would just have to obtain your consumption figures (should be available form your energy supplier), paste them into the file and it will give you what the costs of using the agile tariff  would have been, to compare against your actual bills paid. Of course nobody knows where energy prices are going so there is the trade off between potential gains / losses when compared with fixed rate tariffs and how comfortable you are with that scenario.

[BonzoSPB]

Surely for most people with a NX450 the advantage of an overnight charging tariff for a car that takes just under 3 hours to charge just isn't worth it unless you can time other appliances to kick in during the low cost period (or you use hardly any electricity during the day).

[RXtoNX]

21 minutes ago, BonzoSPB said:

Surely for most people with a NX450 the advantage of an overnight charging tariff for a car that takes just under 3 hours to charge just isn't worth it unless you can time other appliances to kick in during the low cost period (or you use hardly any electricity during the day).

If you say so 🙄

My current Octopus Go tariff

9.00p KWh (00.30 - 04.30)

31.03p kWh Day rate

Day rate penalty is 0.31p KWh (normal rate 30.72p kWh) hence well worth being on the tariff

Do the maths based upon 14kwh to charge the car 4x/week and normal daytime usage of 12kwh/day