Little luxury cars

[HPS13]

Linas

If you have nothing positive to say about certain models of Lexus (and Toyota) then why join in on a thread about small cars? 

This forum has a lot of happy owners of all Lexus models who contribute in a polite respectful manner and help and support each other. We get that you don't like certain cars and you are more than entitled to feel that way but why not use your energy in a more positive way. For example, I'm not going to list reasons why I wouldn't own a 2006 GS because you seem to be happy with yours. It's all so easy to be negative to others when it doesn't agree with you but it doesn't have to be that way. 

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, HPS13 said:

Linas

If you have nothing positive to say about certain models of Lexus (and Toyota) then why join in on a thread about small cars? 

This forum has a lot of happy owners of all Lexus models who contribute in a polite respectful manner and help and support each other. We get that you don't like certain cars and you are more than entitled to feel that way but why not use your energy in a more positive way. For example, I'm not going to list reasons why I wouldn't own a 2006 GS because you seem to be happy with yours. It's all so easy to be negative to others when it doesn't agree with you but it doesn't have to be that way. 

If there would be thread asking where to find unicorns, would I be allowed to join it and say that unicorns do not exist? Or that would be unacceptable because some unicorn believers and 2 year olds would get upset about it? 

You can be as happy with your car as much you want, but that doesn't mean it is objectively good quality or for that matter comparable to certain other car. You subjective satisfaction that does not make the difference on quality and materials used to build that car. That I point out cheap plastic parts it doesn't make me "unrespectful", it is just objective... if you find it too painful to read then it is your problem. 

[Lmafudd]

2 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

If there would be thread asking where to find unicorns, would I be allowed to join it and say that unicorns do not exist? Or that would be unacceptable because some unicorn believers and 2 year olds would get upset about it? 

You can be as happy with your car as much you want, but that doesn't mean it is objectively good quality or for that matter comparable to certain other car. You subjective satisfaction that does not make the difference on quality and materials used to build that car. That I point out cheap plastic parts it doesn't make me "unrespectful", it is just objective... if you find it too painful to read then it is your problem. 

But being objectionable and offensive doesn't make you right. Others have an opinion that may differ and you may legitimately say that you disagree but why be so rude about it? They may be right and you wrong - who knows?

There is only one person that's always right and I married her so I know it's not you!

[NemesisUK]

7 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

That I point out cheap plastic parts it doesn't make me "unrespectful", it is just objective...

I think the point here is that this would be seen as your opinion (subjective), unless you can support that view with an independent assessment/references

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, NemesisUK said:

I think the point here is that this would be seen as your opinion, unless you can support that view with an independent assessment/references.

Just don't be ridiculous... go sit in GS mk4 for 5 minutes (or for that matter your own RX which is amazing quality car), then got sit in UX for 5 minutes and materials on UX is simply inferior, one does not need degree in engineering to see the difference... unless they are biased or live in alternative reality.

It would be dumb to suggest they are comparable - one is literally entry level car of the brand and the other is second best after flagship.

It would not be controversial to say BMW 5-Series is better quality and more luxurious than Mini-cooper... it is just weird that people can't admit that having lower end and cheaper model they don't get same luxury as higher end models... that is just how it is. 

5 minutes ago, Lmafudd said:

But being objectionable and offensive doesn't make you right. Others have an opinion that may differ and you may legitimately say that you disagree but why be so rude about it? They may be right and you wrong - who knows?

There is only one person that's always right and I married her so I know it's not you!

it must be thought - sorry for you. 

In principle I agree - I just can't see where I was rude, before you got rude and where I was offensive.

[Boomer54]

1 hour ago, Linas.P said:

It is Toyota CH-R with Lexus badge mate... so no it is not "real" Lexus.

Ohhh and it is my "cage that was rattled"?! Yet is you who basically suggest I should not be allowed to post, because it hurt your feelings... who is cry baby here? You certainly can have your opinion, but it doesn't pass the basic "smell" test. The question is on "quality" and you only argument - "UX is better than in undefined way CH-R and more economical than NX". How does it even relevant? So good start would be to at least try to answer the question.

That is the main mistake you made here, is that you assuming I am looking for friends. I don't.

There is certainly group of people here who are just basically fans of their cars, like Lexus and want to be in "positive only" fan club, basically just licking each other off with mutual compliments. I am not in that group and I honestly want to distance myself from it - if Lexus does something great, then I will be hear to state I and defend it, but if Lexus does something stupid then I will be the first one to say "this is stupid"... and I do not care if that hurts some other club member who has irrational love for their car. If UX is plasticky then it is plasticky, if IS300h is slow then it is slow. If you want honest answer - I am here for it, but I am not here to be anyone's friend.

Actually, you might wish to look at the rest of the quote. 

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

Actually, you might wish to look at the rest of the quote. 

I can confirm that I looked at whole quote, did not click on the link though... 

I guess I agree with you that I could be more constructive and that would make people agree and see my way of thinking more often, rather than arguing about the tone instead of substance of what I said...

BUT... I have no interest of dealing with snowflakes and if somebody find me annoying that is kind of intentional - almost a filter of "individuals I don't want to speak with anyway". 

[NemesisUK]

18 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Just don't be ridiculous... go sit in GS mk4 for 5 minutes (or for that matter your own RX which is amazing quality car), then got sit in UX for 5 minutes and materials on UX is simply inferior, one does not need degree in engineering to see the difference... unless they are biased or live in alternative reality.

I had a UX as a courtesy car a couple of times and quite enjoyed the experience. It certainly didn't feel cheap or inferior to my then RC. That's my opinion. I don't know the specification of the materials used or how they compared with those in my RC but, in my opinion, they appeared and felt very acceptable.

Your opinion clearly differs but you cannot state objectively that the UX trim material is inferior. What criteria/specification are you using? Just your subjective assessment, no more right or wrong than my subjective assessment. 

 

[Linas.P]

1 minute ago, NemesisUK said:

I had a UX as a courtesy car a couple of times and quite enjoyed the experience. It certainly didn't feel cheap or inferior to my then RC. That's my opinion. I don't know the specification of the materials used or how they compared with those in my RC but, in my opinion, they appeared and felt very acceptable.

Your opinion clearly differs but you cannot state objectively that the UX trim material is inferior. What criteria/specification are you using? Just your subjective assessment, no more right or wrong than my subjective assessment. 

I found RC interior quality very disappointing as well, better than UX, but had no shortage of cheap plastic pieces... my particular pet peeve was "carbon fibre effect" surrounds for windows switches, as well relatively cheap switch gear for wipers/lights and some other areas. 

"What criteria/specification are you using" - anything that is not nice to touch or makes annoying sound, hard or slippery materials... so basically definition of "plasticky and light" vs. "padded, covered in leather, soft-touch, having feeling of heft and quality". For example if we compare switch-gear in LC500 to that in RC... it is immediately clear how LC500 is superior, just by using it, the stalks are made from heavier material which is could to touch (some sort of alloy) vs. very light feeling plastic in RC. The action in LC500 precise, has tactile feel to it on, you never need to double-guess if you enabled or turned something off, whereas on RC it is mush... like you not very sure if it clicked, or if it didn't... I know to large part is to do with stupid fashion of indicators that don't stay engaged, BMW and few other makes tried it and went back to using normal indicators, Lexus was kind of late to that party and RC was one car that got it (IS of certain years got it as well). It is hard to describe feeling, but it does not mean it is subjective. We can go to next step - comparing old IS to RC... sure old IS had loads of parts there were cheaper, but let's continue focusing on the switch gear - yes it was plastic, but it was high quality plastic, sort of matte finish, the clicks were pronounced and precise, the pieces felt hard, solid and kind of heavy, the action of switchgear was reassuring. So it is not necessary for something to be made out of titanium (although preferable) to still be good quality. That is the difference between something that is solidly made vs. cheaply made. And as result that is how I put cars on the ladder, I am not saying it is 100% objective, but at least I have rational system of values (or system that could be rationally explained)... not "UX is better than CH-R, therefore it is good alternative to GS". 

Perceived quality is feeling, and feeling is difficult to describe, I would describe it as follows - imagine mechanism with plastic gears in it, they are little bit sloppy, when you turn the handle  you feel some sloppiness, some bending, some rattling, not very confidence inspiring, plasticky vs. imagine mechanism with precise cut metal gears, there is no sloppiness, there is no wobbliness, you turn the handle and you can feel those gears matching and engaging precisely. So the first example is "cheap feeling", the second example is "premium feeling", now extrapolate that to every touch point in the car.. door handle, action of closing door, is door heavy and closes more like a safe, or is it light and you feel like you need to be delicate with it, same story for all the buttons, covers, touch points etc. When you press on the surround next to the button - does it feel like wood, metal, solid material in general or does it feel like a plastic... what sound does it make - does it absorbs the sound like it is solid or amplify the sound like it is hollow... 

Look - I am picky on quality aspect and I pay a lot of attention to perceived quality, I appreciate that not all people understand or even care... but when somebody comes and argues that "I don't know anything about what makes quality to be quality" and their argument is "but my car has better MPG"... it just insults my intelligence... because I don't mind discussing very minute detail and we can go down to individual button and decide which car has nicest bonnet latch actuation, but it is hard to have meaningful discussion when people don't even conceptually understand the definition of "quality".

[Jgtcracer]

1 hour ago, Lmafudd said:

One inch makes a huge difference Hugh! 

Wife keeps telling me a few more would be better but keep telling her the RC is big enough!

[Jgtcracer]

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I found RC interior quality very disappointing as well, better than UX, but had no shortage of cheap plastic pieces... my particular pet peeve was "carbon fibre effect" surrounds for windows switches, as well relatively cheap switch gear for wipers/lights and some other areas. 

"What criteria/specification are you using" - anything that is not nice to touch or makes annoying sound, hard or slippery materials... so basically definition of "plasticky and light" vs. "padded, covered in leather, soft-touch, having feeling of heft and quality". For example if we compare switch-gear in LC500 to that in RC... it is immediately clear how LC500 is superior, just by using it, the stalks are made from heavier material which is could to touch (some sort of alloy) vs. very light feeling plastic in RC. The action in LC500 precise, has tactile feel to it on, you never need to double-guess if you enabled or turned something off, whereas on RC it is mush... like you not very sure if it clicked, or if it didn't... I know to large part is to do with stupid fashion of indicators that don't stay engaged, BMW and few other makes tried it and went back to using normal indicators, Lexus was kind of late to that party and RC was one car that got it (IS of certain years got it as well). It is hard to describe feeling, but it does not mean it is subjective. We can go to next step - comparing old IS to RC... sure old IS had loads of parts there were cheaper, but let's continue focusing on the switch gear - yes it was plastic, but it was high quality plastic, sort of matte finish, the clicks were pronounced and precise, the pieces felt hard, solid and kind of heavy, the action of switchgear was reassuring. So it is not necessary for something to be made out of titanium (although preferable) to still be good quality. That is the difference between something that is solidly made vs. cheaply made. And as result that is how I put cars on the ladder, I am not saying it is 100% objective, but at least I have rational system of values (or system that could be rationally explained)... not "UX is better than CH-R, therefore it is good alternative to GS". 

Perceived quality is feeling, and feeling is difficult to describe, I would describe it as follows - imagine mechanism with plastic gears in it, they are little bit sloppy, when you turn the handle  you feel some sloppiness, some bending, some rattling, not very confidence inspiring, plasticky vs. imagine mechanism with precise cut metal gears, there is no sloppiness, there is no wobbliness, you turn the handle and you can feel those gears matching and engaging precisely. So the first example is "cheap feeling", the second example is "premium feeling", now extrapolate that to every touch point in the car.. door handle, action of closing door, is door heavy and closes more like a safe, or is it light and you feel like you need to be delicate with it, same story for all the buttons, covers, touch points etc. When you press on the surround next to the button - does it feel like wood, metal, solid material in general or does it feel like a plastic... what sound does it make - does it absorbs the sound like it is solid or amplify the sound like it is hollow... 

Look - I am picky on quality aspect and I pay a lot of attention to perceived quality, I appreciate that not all people understand or even care... but when somebody comes and argues that "I don't know anything about what makes quality to be quality" and their argument is "but my car has better MPG"... it just insults my intelligence... because I don't mind discussing very minute detail and we can go down to individual button and decide which car has nicest bonnet latch actuation, but it is hard to have meaningful discussion when people don't even conceptually understand the definition of "quality".

Linus, keep us RC owners out of this!! We’ve been lurking in the background, last thing you need are more debaters in this thread! 
 

🍿 (waits for incoming fire….)

[Linas.P]

5 minutes ago, Jgtcracer said:

Linus, keep us RC owners out of this!! We’ve been lurking in the background, last thing you need are more debaters in this thread!

Having RC-F you should be relatively relaxed, my main pet peeve from RC is resolved, because on RC-F you get real carbon fibre inlays instead of "fake carbon fibre effect" cheap plastic inlays. So you good!

[Malc1]

now now children ...  soon be time for bed and your horlicks everyone .......... 

I wonder if I'll be allowed to buy my 3rd Ls400 .....  but it won't be a Ls400 Mk4 .  too cheap and nasty with all that silly upmarket technology and electronics to go awry ............. 🤣

Now then, how's my Toyota, to be branded Lexus Ls700 Hydrogen Power  coming along   ...  pass the HP sauce someone 

Just Chill and Relax and enjoy whatever cars you have .  that's the essence of the game and the friendly banter we all enjoy here

Malc

[Ala Larj]

10 minutes ago, Jgtcracer said:

Wife keeps telling me a few more would be better but keep telling her the RC is big enough!

It’s my wife that wishes mine were a bit smaller!

The car that is!

Well, I wasn’t expecting my innocent question to turn into a personal argument. I do tend to agree with Linas about perceived quality. However, ‘perceived’ quality IS subjective. The point though is that all the touch points in my GS are not only perceived to be of a better quality than what is generally found in smaller vehicles they clearly are objectively better. I just wish I could have the interior I have in my GS in a UX sized car!

Please keep this thread civil. 

[Jgtcracer]

7 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Having RC-F you should be relatively relaxed, my main pet peeve from RC is resolved, because on RC-F you get real carbon fibre inlays instead of "fake carbon fibre effect" cheap plastic inlays. So you good!

Ironically the real carbon fibre in most RCFs is actually ‘fake’ texalium.

[Lmafudd]

Quality has many individual components to make a whole. Build, finish, efficiency are some of those components. MPG may be just as important to body design to some.

IN YOUR OPINION Mr Linas the UX has too much plastic. I disagree. Maybe the base level does, I wouldn't know as I haven't seen one but my version has nice stitched material that seems like leather. Whether it's 'real' leather I am not too fussy about as I don't eat meat and would be a hypocrite to say otherwise. Overall it's nice and soft, looks good and doesn't hang onto dust as some surfaces do.

When I sit in MY UX it does give me a feel of 'quality'. It was built in Japan as opposed to the C-HR that was built in Turkey. Maybe that fact alone makes it 'feel' better but who knows? Some Turkish Airguns and Shotguns are excellent (one of which I own) so please all note that I am not denigrating Turkish Workers etc.

If, even though your profiles states that you don't have a Lexus currently, you actually have a 2006 GS, well good for you, especially in keeping a car going for that long but I personally loathe saloons and would never even look at one let alone own one. They're just not for me. This is of course my PERSONAL OPINION.

So, all-in-all I think we are stating that unless you have proof that the plastic content of all UX is more than the plastic content of any other vehicle you wish to compare then you should just accept that this is your own perception and not necessarily fact. You may be right, you may be wrong.

Final word about 'Plastic'. It's recently been voted the 4th best invention of all time. I think it should be at number one as without it we'd still be in the dark ages. It is the most valuable material known and if aliens ever do raid Earth it won't be Gold or even Water they'll be after! Lock-up your pop bottles I say!

[dutchie01]

I see Linas is making friends again..

A little luxury car will be hard to find for the simple reason they are not produced. Soft touch points all over the cabin, no hard scratchy plastics, premium interior design combined with a excellent silent drivetrain with enough torque and expensive looking interior can of course be built but it will come at such a price that the car will be unsellable it will not be a viable businesscase. Top of the range LBX or UX are probably the closest you can find outside of building your own.

Thought of that? get a car you like and tune it up. Leather interior can be had for 2k. Nice wheels and wrapping or repaint. How about a classic? Audi A2 springs to mind. Peugeot 205 GTI?  Golf ? Saab 93? How about really small Toyota IQ? buy one for a good price have it fully serviced at a toyota dealer immediately, get leather at a color of your choice and have it repainted and that will be your dreamcar at a reasonable price!

[LenT]

24 minutes ago, Lmafudd said:

Final word about 'Plastic'. It's recently been voted the 4th best invention of all time.

I suspect that may be because fish don’t yet have a vote.  😊

[HPS13]

My UX is the same - feels like quality cabin materials. Black leather with red stitching throughout. Arm rests and dash are all soft touch materials. I also haven't seen a base model spec car so can't comment on that. 

A 2006 GS - whilst a nice place to be on the inside, the exterior to me looks really bland and unappealing. Maybe it looked better 17 years ago but design has moved on. Around 30mpg? No thanks . . . 

 

[Mossypossy]

Bit too small maybe?

[Ala Larj]

10 minutes ago, Mossypossy said:

Bit too small maybe?

Shame it’s an Audi. Don’t want to spend too much time on the hard shoulder!

[Lmafudd]

But at least you'd be able to through 50mph roadworks at any speed you like!

[J Henderson]

1 hour ago, Lmafudd said:

I personally loathe saloons and would never even look at one let alone own one. They're just not for me.

You've been driving Crossover/SUV or whatever your whole life then? For the longest time, a saloon was pretty much the only thing on sale.

[Lmafudd]

43 minutes ago, J Henderson said:

You've been driving Crossover/SUV or whatever your whole life then? For the longest time, a saloon was pretty much the only thing on sale.f

Almost. First car was a Marina Coupe, second Triumph Dolomite then all Hatchbacks or estates. It's my preference. If they suit you then that's okay with me.

[Rabbers]

Anyone wanting to understand the difference between having an opinion and being opinionated should read this thread.