Proverbs

[Phil xxkr]

As I am due in Western Greece tomorrow I thought I might catch up on some wise Greek sayings - you never know! Whilst I am doing this the word "proverbs" popped in my head. And then recalled being taught these at home and at school never recognising or appreciating this transfer of ancient wisdom.

So my question is, are these being taught today? I suspect not, this vast compendium of empirical knowledge essential to helping you guide your way through life's up and downs. Perhaps if they were mandated some people might realise life's travails are not unique to them  but universal through the ages.

No man ever steps in the same river twice, is my favourite from Hereclitus. 

[Boomer54]

53 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

As I am due in Western Greece tomorrow I thought I might catch up on some wise Greek sayings - you never know! Whilst I am doing this the word "proverbs" popped in my head. And then recalled being taught these at home and at school never recognising or appreciating this transfer of ancient wisdom.

So my question is, are these being taught today? I suspect not, this vast compendium of empirical knowledge essential to helping you guide your way through life's up and downs. Perhaps if they were mandated some people might realise life's travails are not unique to them  but universal through the ages.

No man ever steps in the same river twice, is my favourite from Hereclitus. 

One near and dear to my heart.

"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step".

Now you need to really think about the meaning and how it can help you in real life. For example, after I had a quadruple heart by pass following years of degradation in fitness due to atherosclerosis I returned home in very bad shape. The following day I started on my back step and I did 5 steps before I was a quivering wreck. The next day I did 6. 6 months later I was no longer counting steps just stopping after 2 hours of continuous step ups. I generally take from that proverb that I can break down huge, sometimes almost insurmountable looking problems, into small chunks that with application I can resolve.

Unfortunately , that was pre RA, and the only proverb that helps with that is 'be prepared to accept what you cannot change". Fortunately, RA does not affect the joints that enable you to smile. 😄

[Phil xxkr]

2 hours ago, Boomer54 said:

One near and dear to my heart.

"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step".

Now you need to really think about the meaning and how it can help you in real life. For example, after I had a quadruple heart by pass following years of degradation in fitness due to atherosclerosis I returned home in very bad shape. The following day I started on my back step and I did 5 steps before I was a quivering wreck. The next day I did 6. 6 months later I was no longer counting steps just stopping after 2 hours of continuous step ups. I generally take from that proverb that I can break down huge, sometimes almost insurmountable looking problems, into small chunks that with application I can resolve.

Unfortunately , that was pre RA, and the only proverb that helps with that is 'be prepared to accept what you cannot change". Fortunately, RA does not affect the joints that enable you to smile. 😄

I admire your fortitude Steve, you remind me of an ancient Greek proverb " the tree that faces the strongest wind grows the deepest roots" Best wishes Phil. 😎

[First_Lexus]

3 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

So my question is, are these being taught today? I suspect not, this vast compendium of empirical knowledge essential to helping you guide your way through life's up and downs. Perhaps if they were mandated some people might realise life's travails are not unique to them  but universal through the ages.

I very much agree. We were taught these, as I remember not specifically  but more as a teaching aid when studying classics, Latin and Ancient Greek (which was only for one term each year in place of Latin for about three years - I’m going to say ages about 9-12 but it was a long time ago!).

The one that has stuck with me over the years is along the lines of;

”It is sensible to endure those things that you cannot change as worrying about them achieves little.”  
I guess this is the same one that @Boomer54is also referencing!

I can’t remember the context, but I’m sure there was also one along the lines of “Destroy that which you cannot conquer.” I’m unconvinced that is especially useful today, but almost certainly made perfect sense to your average Roman General…

I’ve probably posted this previously, but speaking to the youngsters who are still in education in my family makes me slightly depressed. The focus seems to be wholly on ‘training’ rather than ‘education.’ For me, school days are about knowledge for its own sake, at least until age 16 and upwards. I think we now specialise far too early and the prioritisation of science and mathematics over the humanities may make sense in terms of a future workforce but I’m not sure it produces fully rounded members of society. That said, science and maths wasn’t prioritised at all when I was at school, so who am I to talk 😇?

[Phil xxkr]

2 hours ago, First_Lexus said:

I very much agree. We were taught these, as I remember not specifically  but more as a teaching aid when studying classics, Latin and Ancient Greek (which was only for one term each year in place of Latin for about three years - I’m going to say ages about 9-12 but it was a long time ago!).

The one that has stuck with me over the years is along the lines of;

”It is sensible to endure those things that you cannot change as worrying about them achieves little.”  
I guess this is the same one that @Boomer54is also referencing!

I can’t remember the context, but I’m sure there was also one along the lines of “Destroy that which you cannot conquer.” I’m unconvinced that is especially useful today, but almost certainly made perfect sense to your average Roman General…

I’ve probably posted this previously, but speaking to the youngsters who are still in education in my family makes me slightly depressed. The focus seems to be wholly on ‘training’ rather than ‘education.’ For me, school days are about knowledge for its own sake, at least until age 16 and upwards. I think we now specialise far too early and the prioritisation of science and mathematics over the humanities may make sense in terms of a future workforce but I’m not sure it produces fully rounded members of society. That said, science and maths wasn’t prioritised at all when I was at school, so who am I to talk 😇?

You are so right my friend. And you are probably referring to Epictetus who wrote, 

"Most of what passes for legitimate entertainment is inferior or foolish and only caters to or exploits people's weaknesses. Avoid being one of the mob who indulges in such pastimes. Your life is too short and you have important things to do. Be discriminating about what images and ideas you permit into your mind. If you yourself don't choose what thoughts and images you expose yourself to, someone else will, and their motives may not be the highest. It is the easiest thing in the world to slide imperceptibly into vulgarity. But there's no need for that to happen if you determine not to waste your time and attention on mindless pap.”
― Epictetus, The Art of Living: The Classical Manual on Virtue, Happiness and Effectiveness

My goodness he must have had an insight into our current times 😱

[Boomer54]

2 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

I admire your fortitude Steve, you remind me of an ancient Greek proverb " the tree that faces the strongest wind grows the deepest roots" Best wishes Phil. 😎

And there I was thinking you were going to say 'you remind me of a Ferrari with a new set of tyres all a😄round'.

[Phil xxkr]

21 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

And there I was thinking you were going to say 'you remind me of a Ferrari with a new set of tyres all a😄round'.

Well Tim Allen, he of Tool Time said, women are like cars ; we all want a Ferrari, sometimes we need a pick-up truck, and end up with a station wagon 🤣

[Boomer54]

I shall go away and think if I have been very cleverly insulted. I mean I have been called many things, just not a "station wagon".

[VFR]

If things don’t change they will stay as they are. (Said ?)

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

7 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

As I am due in Western Greece tomorrow I thought I might catch up on some wise Greek sayings - you never know! Whilst I am doing this the word "proverbs" popped in my head. And then recalled being taught these at home and at school never recognising or appreciating this transfer of ancient wisdom.

So my question is, are these being taught today? I suspect not, this vast compendium of empirical knowledge essential to helping you guide your way through life's up and downs. Perhaps if they were mandated some people might realise life's travails are not unique to them  but universal through the ages.

No man ever steps in the same river twice, is my favourite from Hereclitus. 

One I use a Lot .. In Life You Know What you Know But Sometimes You Know What you Know You Don,t Know !!!  My Question Regards your School Days and the Curriculum in Particular Is Why Don,t They Teach The kids to Handle Money Because the Majority that i know Haven,t got a clue.. They just Spend Spend Spend without giving any scientific thought to how they are going to Pay it back... The uk is currently around 1.9 Trillion in Personal Debt  and the frightening thing is its still Rising.. Would it not be a good idea to start training kids when there Young How to Save and live within there means or am i being old school here..!!!!

[Boomer54]

41 minutes ago, RONNIE W HODGEKINSON said:

One I use a Lot .. In Life You Know What you Know But Sometimes You Know What you Know You Don,t Know !!!  My Question Regards your School Days and the Curriculum in Particular Is Why Don,t They Teach The kids to Handle Money Because the Majority that i know Haven,t got a clue.. They just Spend Spend Spend without giving any scientific thought to how they are going to Pay it back... The uk is currently around 1.9 Trillion in Personal Debt  and the frightening thing is its still Rising.. Would it not be a good idea to start training kids when there Young How to Save and live within there means or am i being old school here..!!!!

Hi Ronnie,

We are from a different era where credit was not so freely available so in that sense we are 'old school'. However, let me explain why the situation is not so dire as you may think. You see the level of personal debt does not exist in isolation. What counts is the ability to repay that debt and indeed just how much of that debt is actually secured against assets such as property, pension savings etc. What I am saying is personal debt is one figure on just one side of the ledger. It is just as important what is the double entry on the otherside.

having said all that your comment s regarding financial education is absolutely spot on in my experience.

[First_Lexus]

1 hour ago, RONNIE W HODGEKINSON said:

Why Don,t They Teach The kids to Handle Money Because the Majority that i know Haven,t got a clue.. They just Spend Spend Spend without giving any scientific thought to how they are going to Pay it back...

Time for a grumpy old man moment. I’m not being contrary, but if school is the place to teach basics such as financial management, then in my opinion that’s a failure of parenting and wider family. Such life skills shouldn’t need to be taught formally at school - they never used to be needed, so what’s changed? If you buy things, then at some point you need to pay for them, either now or later. It’s hardly rocket science. Surely to God we haven’t seen the decline of our civilisation to this extent? Or perhaps we have…

Imho what has changed is the internet. Buying ‘stuff’ and thinking that you need to buy more ‘stuff’ in order to keep up with peers and so called ‘influencers’ is relatively new. Credit didn’t used to be so easily available, and there was far more effort required to get into a town centre and walk around to find what you wanted. Comparisons were within your own circle of friends only, not the whole world.

At University I studied Gandhi (amongst others). He still fascinates me today. One of his famous quotes speaks about ‘restricting voluntary wants and desires’ in order to achieve ‘true happiness and contentment.’ He was speaking about the physical state as much as the need for possessions, but still. 

That said, we probably do need to teach financial sense to our children in school. But I say again, the fact that we think we do need to use such valuable time in such a way demonstrates a failure in wider society.

 

[Phil xxkr]

5 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

Time for a grumpy old man moment. I’m not being contrary, but if school is the place to teach basics such as financial management, then in my opinion that’s a failure of parenting and wider family. Such life skills shouldn’t need to be taught formally at school - they never used to be needed, so what’s changed? If you buy things, then at some point you need to pay for them, either now or later. It’s hardly rocket science. Surely to God we haven’t seen the decline of our civilisation to this extent? Or perhaps we have…

Imho what has changed is the internet. Buying ‘stuff’ and thinking that you need to buy more ‘stuff’ in order to keep up with peers and so called ‘influencers’ is relatively new. Credit didn’t used to be so easily available, and there was far more effort required to get into a town centre and walk around to find what you wanted. Comparisons were within your own circle of friends only, not the whole world.

At University I studied Gandhi (amongst others). He still fascinates me today. One of his famous quotes speaks about ‘restricting voluntary wants and desires’ in order to achieve ‘true happiness and contentment.’ He was speaking about the physical state as much as the need for possessions, but still. 

That said, we probably do need to teach financial sense to our children in school. But I say again, the fact that we think we do need to use such valuable time in such a way demonstrates a failure in wider society.

 

There are three kinds of people: the haves, the have-nots, and the have-not-paid-for-what-they-haves.”, smart journalist, Earl Wilson 😎

[Phil xxkr]

59 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

Hi Ronnie,

We are from a different era where credit was not so freely available so in that sense we are 'old school'. However, let me explain why the situation is not so dire as you may think. You see the level of personal debt does not exist in isolation. What counts is the ability to repay that debt and indeed just how much of that debt is actually secured against assets such as property, pension savings etc. What I am saying is personal debt is one figure on just one side of the ledger. It is just as important what is the double entry on the otherside.

having said all that your comment s regarding financial education is absolutely spot on in my experience.

What you say Steve makes perfect academic sense but I can also say there's nothing more liberating to the mind than having no debt to anyone. 🥳

[Boomer54]

6 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

There are three kinds of people: the haves, the have-nots, and the have-not-paid-for-what-they-haves.”, smart journalist, Earl Wilson 😎

Well apparently there is a 4th kind of "people", and they are called "Station wagons". 

[Boomer54]

8 minutes ago, Phil xxkr said:

What you say Steve makes perfect academic sense but I can also say there's nothing more liberating to the mind than having no debt to anyone. 🥳

Phil, I truly understand what you mean  but what I say is not really academic. It is simply rudimentary accounting. If I can borrow and make a greater return on that money than the cost of servicing the debt then you have the very definition of good leverage.

The real problem here is the element of personal debt that represents current consumption. That is , no positive investment basis for taking on the debt simply one of two things  inability to match income to expenditure, and sometimes a failure to understand the distinction between Need and Want.