Ludicrous!

[DavidCM]

2 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Finding a thrill at low speed seems the only thing left. Narrow tyres, small wheels and a truly bad chassis can give that just drive a suzuki swift from 20 yrs old, every roundabout is a challenge at 40 kmh!

..other frights are available .Try a BMW 320/325 from the 1980's,or a Nissan 300ZX turbo...wet roads optional, sideways action guaranteed.

[Boomer54]

I tend to agree. I think anything that takes your attention off the road more than is healthy is bad from a safety viewpoint. Hence, I think speed control areas that mean you spend undue time watching your dashboard rather than the road around you is inherently less safe. The safest drivers I know pay little attention to their driving and far more concentrating on other drivers. You cannot do that very well in speed controlled areas.

[NemesisUK]

I find the HUD a huge benefit with regard to watching speed and the road ahead.

[GMB]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

when I go on Autobahn I just set cruise control at 120MPH and leave it there

I agree, the only snag with cruising at 120 is the massive increase in fuel consumption even with a lexus auto gearbox that has two overdrive ratios. So, only if in a big hurry such as a ferry to catch.

[Linas.P]

19 minutes ago, GMB said:

I agree, the only snag with cruising at 120 is the massive increase in fuel consumption even with a lexus auto gearbox that has two overdrive ratios. So, only if in a big hurry such as a ferry to catch.

It is not too bad, I agree that above 150MPH it really becomes unreasonable, where even on Autobahn I would not go over 150MPH in any car, past 150MPH regardless what you driving it becomes just diminishing returns. 

For example set at 120MPH my old IS250 would do 32-36MPG and that is on E85. On proper petrol even 40MPG would be within reach. BMW 530D is absolutelly happy at 120MPH, in car fully loaded and with 4 people we were getting good 45-50MPG. Sure at 90MPH, you can probably get 55MPG, but the difference was not huge... note as well that 5MPG difference when you already getting 50MPG is tiny. 

Generally speaking the smaller is the engine, the more punishing the high speed cruising will be to the car. I am kind of generalising here, but cars with 3L+ engines, especially diesels don't mind 120MPH, the cars with 2L or less, hybrids or SUVs are really sensitive past ~60MPH. And by the time you get to 90MPH it really starts to hurt. So I guess it depends what you driving.   

3 hours ago, Boomer54 said:

I tend to agree. I think anything that takes your attention off the road more than is healthy is bad from a safety viewpoint. Hence, I think speed control areas that mean you spend undue time watching your dashboard rather than the road around you is inherently less safe. The safest drivers I know pay little attention to their driving and far more concentrating on other drivers. You cannot do that very well in speed controlled areas.

You are spot on. I have rented a car severe times where it had tracker in it and I am not going to bore you with the detail, but the rental agreement stipulated that 50 Euro fine will be automatically applied if I go over 25km/h over the limit. It is so UNSAFE that it is literally ridiculous. Instead of driving with the flow and instead of making sure you are overtaking safely, you just end-up watching the speedometer all the time. So some level of discipline and keeping to the speed limits makes it safer, but if country gets very strict with speed limits I would argue it makes roads less safe.

The driver who is looking at the road ahead and concentrating on driving will always be safer than driver who cannot see what is happening around them and just watches the speedometer. 

There is balance to be had here... I do agree that going at 50MPH in the school area when the kids are out is outright criminal and should result in driving ban (despite it being only 20MPH over), but I absolutelly cannot see any issue travelling at 90MPH or more on empty motorway at night. And that is why having a human police officer is so much better than having speed camera, the human can apply leniency when that is fair to do, or be harsh when requires... sadly we moving away from that and now everything is monitored by increasing number of money grab cameras. Camera does not care where you gone 20-over, it does not care if it was safe or not safe... it just goes *flash* - fine will be sent within 14 days. 

[Jgtcracer]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:43 AM, Malc1 said:

depends on the era of course  .....  Press Button A  .......... or B to retrieve your tuppence or so

999 was of course always free

Malc

I struggle to remember a time before internet!!

[Ala Larj]

Inter what?

[Barry14UK]

Another aspect of the growing 20mph limits is that Battery cars apart, vehicles  will be operating even more at well below optimum efficiency, thereby using more fuel and producing more emissions.

I agree that due largely to the density of traffic on our roads nowadays,there is a need for speed limits which are widely accepted as reasonable, so drivers will largely respect them.  Maybe certain roads could have higher limits at certain times especially at night when there are far fewer cars and particularly lorries about but weather conditions can be a factor.  I remember driving along a motorway once at about the legal speed limit when a fog bank rolled across with little warning and like others in front of me I braked to a stop.  Because I always leave a good a good gap between myself and the car in front when in lane,  I was able to do this by moderately hard braking and the driver behind me was also able to stop in time.  However, cars behind him scattered all over the motorway as they ploughed into each other.  Had I been travelling at another 10 mph  I think I might have been rear ended too. It's a horrible feeling when you think for an instant will the following car be able to stop or slow sufficiently as may be the case before hitting you.

One of my pet hates is drivers that overtake me and then immediately cut back in in front of me so that my braking space between me and the car in front of me is so reduced that if that car in front of me slows for some reason I might well hit the overtaking car so I have to brake to regain the space, as apart from being dangerous I have to reset my cruise control if in use at the time.

 

[Boomer54]

43 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

Another aspect of the growing 20mph limits is that battery cars apart, vehicles  will be operating even more at well below optimum efficiency, thereby using more fuel and producing more emissions.

I agree that due largely to the density of traffic on our roads nowadays,there is a need for speed limits which are widely accepted as reasonable, so drivers will largely respect them.  Maybe certain roads could have higher limits at certain times especially at night when there are far fewer cars and particularly lorries about but weather conditions can be a factor.  I remember driving along a motorway once at about the legal speed limit when a fog bank rolled across with little warning and like others in front of me I braked to a stop.  Because I always leave a good a good gap between myself and the car in front when in lane,  I was able to do this by moderately hard braking and the driver behind me was also able to stop in time.  However, cars behind him scattered all over the motorway as they ploughed into each other.  Had I been travelling at another 10 mph  I think I might have been rear ended too. It's a horrible feeling when you think for an instant will the following car be able to stop or slow sufficiently as may be the case before hitting you.

One of my pet hates is drivers that overtake me and then immediately cut back in in front of me so that my braking space between me and the car in front of me is so reduced that if that car in front of me slows for some reason I might well hit the overtaking car so I have to brake to regain the space, as apart from being dangerous I have to reset my cruise control if in use at the time.

 

Really, we are very much entering the arena of exactly what should our elected officials be allowed to do without our express permission. I am not now talking about term elections either as being the appropriate mechanism by which that permission is given. The fact is human nature is a double edged bitch. More is always better whether it comes to taking more holidays ,or taking more control which is really the very issue here.

Personally, I do believe this country really could do with taking a look at how the Swiss do things. There, you the voter get a lot more say over issues that might affect you unlike the UK where empire buildings bureaucrats just cannot keep their fingers out of your pie !

[First_Lexus]

49 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

Really, we are very much entering the arena of exactly what should our elected officials be allowed to do without our express permission. I am not now talking about term elections either as being the appropriate mechanism by which that permission is given. The fact is human nature is a double edged bitch. More is always better whether it comes to taking more holidays ,or taking more control which is really the very issue here.

Personally, I do believe this country really could do with taking a look at how the Swiss do things. There, you the voter get a lot more say over issues that might affect you unlike the UK where empire buildings bureaucrats just cannot keep their fingers out of your pie !

I agree. Government by consent is fine, but the detail of policy isn’t always clear at the point of election, or it changes. Officials and politicians like to talk about ‘public consultation’ but the reality of these is what I heard described recently as ‘pretend democracy.’

The explanation was simple, and was based on the consultation on closing railway ticket offices. They believed between 80-100k public submissions would be made, and usually these are 95% (or more) opposed. You’d expect the policy to be changed, right? Wrong…

It seems they actually use an algorithm to take account of the fact that most people moved to respond oppose the change. Thus, they’re able to assume that the majority who didn’t respond approve! Happens everywhere. We’ve all seen local planning decisions where almost every submission is opposed, but they go through. Same with speed limits in Wales. 

Pretend democracy indeed. We’re being ‘consulted’ simply to tick a box. The policy will be implemented regardless.

[First_Lexus]

Back on topic, I did drive a Hyundai IONIC5 a few months ago. It’s an impressive thing, and would likely be my choice if I went EV. The acceleration on that was instant, but tbh didn’t really leave much of an impression on me. 

I’m an old codger these days, and prefer to waft and go about things much more slowly. The driving ‘experience’ won’t be the deciding factor. Range at motorway speeds in Winter of 250+ miles is what I’ll need before taking any EV plunge.

On the subject of range, a friend with a Tesla Y used it for a holiday to Devon and Cornwall recently. The tales of lack of charging infrastructure and range anxiety after mid-point on the M5 were hilarious - well, hilarious in hindsight! Range would be far less of an issue if the charging infrastructure was consistent. 

[Spacewagon52]

I have driven through a large village that has a 20 mph limit all the way through. I am all for safety but 20 mph is very difficult to maintain - 25 mph might be more reasonable - just my opinion. Back to topic - I am also in the old codgers brigade and have no desire to race around like a headless chicken. Steady driving is much more relaxing and less strenuous on the nerves. It also saves you money. I am not advocating dawdling, but you gain very few minutes on medium length runs. We have all seen the "racing driver" overtake everyone he can and then catch him up at the roadworks!

With age comes wisdom - I hope!

[Barry14UK]

2 hours ago, Spacewagon52 said:

I have driven through a large village that has a 20 mph limit all the way through. I am all for safety but 20 mph is very difficult to maintain - 25 mph might be more reasonable - just my opinion. Back to topic - I am also in the old codgers brigade and have no desire to race around like a headless chicken. Steady driving is much more relaxing and less strenuous on the nerves. It also saves you money. I am not advocating dawdling, but you gain very few minutes on medium length runs. We have all seen the "racing driver" overtake everyone he can and then catch him up at the roadworks!

With age comes wisdom - I hope!

The peasants are revolting! https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/crowds-gather-to-protest-against-wales-20mph-law-as-petition-opposing-the-new-limit-tops-400-000-signatures/ar-AA1hbG6l?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=639d4e6b57a04d2aa986be6212b3aac3&ei=32

[First_Lexus]

21 minutes ago, Barry14UK said:

The peasants are revolting! https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/crowds-gather-to-protest-against-wales-20mph-law-as-petition-opposing-the-new-limit-tops-400-000-signatures/ar-AA1hbG6l?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=639d4e6b57a04d2aa986be6212b3aac3&ei=32

 

[Spacewagon52]

1 hour ago, First_Lexus said:

 

Brilliant! Not seen that clip

[First_Lexus]

I was in a new Tesla Model Y yesterday. The acceleration is indeed ludicrous, and much more severe than that in the Hyundai IONIC 5 I was in previously. But…

…the car was less than a year old, and the rattles and squeaks from the interior were not indicative of a quality product! The tech is impressive, albeit a bit baffling for me, and I wouldn’t be keen on the central screen rather than dials behind the steering wheel.

What I would also say is that the acceleration - apart from being technically impressive - doesn’t really have a point as imho it is unnecessary and potentially dangerous as it is so immediate and so rapid.

[Boomer54]

9 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

I was in a new Tesla Model Y yesterday. The acceleration is indeed ludicrous, and much more severe than that in the Hyundai IONIC 5 I was in previously. But…

…the car was less than a year old, and the rattles and squeaks from the interior were not indicative of a quality product! The tech is impressive, albeit a bit baffling for me, and I wouldn’t be keen on the central screen rather than dials behind the steering wheel.

What I would also say is that the acceleration - apart from being technically impressive - doesn’t really have a point as imho it is unnecessary and potentially dangerous as it is so immediate and so rapid.

Re that last point I agree. The level of motor skills to drive ultra performance safely may be beyond more than a few aspirational drivers. To me it's a watch that space issue. Incidents may be relatively rare now, but I am not sure they will remain that way.

[Linas.P]

32 minutes ago, First_Lexus said:

What I would also say is that the acceleration - apart from being technically impressive - doesn’t really have a point as imho it is unnecessary and potentially dangerous as it is so immediate and so rapid.

And that is exactly what I think as well...

Besides, despite being technically impressive, I don't actually enjoy it... Yes it is fast, but that is it... The reason why I rev and accelerate in ICEV is because I enjoy the noise it makes, not because I necessary need to go as fast. So I am only interested in fast acceleration for "complete experience", not just for sake of going fast and electric cars just can't provide it. 

 

[Malc1]

it's absolutely brill driving both of my aged V8 4 ltr Ls400s ..  real dials and  " feel "  for the whole driving experience  ....  Zero to lots of mph in just a few seconds is quite enough for me 😇

Oh, and the range is about 500 miles between refuelling

Malc

[Boomer54]

11 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

it's absolutely brill driving both of my aged V8 4 ltr Ls400s ..  real dials and  " feel "  for the whole driving experience  ....  Zero to lots of mph in just a few seconds is quite enough for me 😇

Oh, and the range is about 500 miles between refuelling

Malc

Bet you need plenty of defuelling pitstops within 500 miles.

[Malc1]

16 minutes ago, Boomer54 said:

Bet you need plenty of defuelling pitstops within 500 miles.

refuelling with coffee usually and weeeeee stops too of course and maybe 2 / 2.5 hrs and 125/150 miles ....... next one is mid October from Queenborough to Ruthin Castle for a few days in hopefully delightfully dry and happy weather too 😃  ....  maybe just the one stop hopefully twixt home and hotel  ............ now which Ls400 do i take ......  decisions decisions decisions 😇

Malc

sorry i digress from the " Ludicrous " concepts by not taking the probably never to be acquired EV and all that amazing technology that might go whizz and bang and cost me a fortune to sort out ......  let alone having zero comprehensible dials, speedo etc 🥶

[Rabbers]

The achievable speeds and rates of an acceleration of EVs pose a serious commercial problem for traditional manufacturers of supercars.  That performances hitherto considered highly impressive can now be readily matched and improved by EVs is one of the reasons why the likes of Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maclaren et al., are jumping on the EV bandwagon, as are bigger groups with comparable high-performance models at the top of their ranges.  So far they do not seem to have convinced the specialist media or prospective customers as to how - or if - their EVs might provide levels of driving pleasure equal to those on which they built their reputations and justified their prices.  It will be especially interesting to see what their response will be to the functional quietness of EVs, which many traditional customers for ICE supercars consider a major blemish and obstacle to purchase.  Could one solution turn out to be some sort of synthetic sound device akin to Lexus’ ASC, duly improved to meet the perceived needs  of those for whom noise and pleasure are at least partly synonymous?

[NemesisUK]

As the current generation of car buyer appears to be more concerned with "does my Spotify account sync with my car" rather than how does the car drive/ride/perform I don't think the next generation will give any thought to the sound of a car. In fact it will be a blessing being so quiet as it won't detract from them listening to the latest xyz podcast ...

[dutchie01]

2 hours ago, Rabbers said:

The achievable speeds and rates of an acceleration of EVs pose a serious commercial problem for traditional manufacturers of supercars.  That performances hitherto considered highly impressive can now be readily matched and improved by EVs is one of the reasons why the likes of Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maclaren et al., are jumping on the EV bandwagon,

And thats why they develop LUDICROUS hypercars with 1 million horsepower that are so fast they are completely utterly useless on the road. Well.. bought by investors/speculators anyhow.

[dutchie01]

 

1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

As the current generation of car buyer appears to be more concerned with "does my Spotify account sync with my car" rather than how does the car drive/ride/perform I don't think the next generation will give any thought to the sound of a car. In fact it will be a blessing being so quiet as it won't detract from them listening to the latest xyz podcast ...

Exactly my idea. The older generation ( some of them ) are still interested in mechanical propulsion but the vast majority of new buyers dont give a t***.  Needs to be economical, easy to operate, a little sexy ( screens) and nobody cares where its built. ( if they really want a car instead of a 7000 euro bike and a 1500 euro smartphone.) Times, they are changing.