Ludicrous!

[dutchie01]

Its about the feel, the thought, the knowledge that if needed you can simply go warpspeed by pushing a pedal. Makes driving more relaxed and safe by knowing you can get out of a dangerous situation easily. I dont have a tesla but my neighbour has two ( private !). He told me you do it 3 times and thats it but its very easy cruising. Maybe the EV will save high powered fossil cars that will be used for hobby like the car did save the horses?

[Malc1]

15 hours ago, dutchie01 said:

Makes driving more relaxed and safe by knowing you can get out of a dangerous situation easily.

Yes   I've done this a few times with ease in my V8  4ltr   😇

Malc

 

[RONNIE W HODGEKINSON]

 Wholeheartedly Agree Malcolm.. It was just simply Showoffmanship Whichever way you dress it ....!!!!

[steve2006]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:43 AM, Malc1 said:

depends on the era of course  .....  Press Button A  .......... or B to retrieve your tuppence or so

999 was of course always free

Malc

I seem to remember it was four pennies in old money which changed to 2 new pence in 1971 an effective increase of 20%. Yes decimal currency was probably the beginning of rip off Britain along with “Purchase Tax” the predecessor of VAT.

Anyway just off to the butcher’s shop for 3/6’ worth of stewing meat, not shin, for me Mam. 😀

It was a Tesla model S that left me standing at traffic lights in the Celsior, the driver did however get to 60 MPH, the legal limit and stop accelerating at that point

[Bluemarlin]

1 hour ago, steve2006 said:

I seem to remember it was four pennies in old money which changed to 2 new pence in 1971 an effective increase of 20%. Yes decimal currency was probably the beginning of rip off Britain along with “Purchase Tax” the predecessor of VAT.

 

I might be misremembering, but I seem to recall them taking thrupenny bits. I also remember that it took superhuman strength to open the doors on a phone box.

[Malc1]

never remember brass 3p bits being used nor old silver  6p either  ....  YES those doors could be challenging to open, especially when one's aged 5 or 6  and a bit of a weakling 🥶

Malc

[eightk]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:43 PM, Rabbers said:

No question about it.  Still, if he makes a habit of it I’d be interested to know how long his tyres last.

From experience less than 20,000 miles 😎

Most of the wear is probably the weight of the thing on bends rather than launching it from every set of lights - there’s no wheelspin no matter how hard you try.

It’s clever but pointless really - where it is of real world use is lane changes, slip roads, getting out of a ‘situation’ etc - the safety aspect of the power is the most useful part.

[DavidCM]

3 hours ago, eightk said:

 😎

Most of the wear is probably the weight of the thing on bends rather than launching it from every set of lights - there’s no wheelspin no matter how hard you try

Driving through my local village two days ago,I noticed a low loader and" police slow" signs.It was a dry,not particularly busy road ,40 mph speed limit.....and some moron in a Tesla had managed to park it halfway through the hedge,backwards,probably at speed as he had ripped the rear nearside wheel and suspension completely off it.I don't think it was the ludicrous model...it must have been the Reliant Robin edition.

At least it didn't catch fire.

[javadude]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:12 PM, GMB said:

Sorry guys you just don't get it do you?

Fast acceleration is nice but in an electric box it is one dimensional boring. What about the whole experience - the sound and feel of the V8. The character. The change through the gears. The good feeling from being able to control the car correctly. The isF compared to the electric box is like fine Opera compared to Showaddywaddy.

I don't want a clinical, soulless, car. I want the theatre and the experience of a real car with real character. I love my isF but I think I love my motorbike just as well - I would have said more but I don't want to upset the isF- . Now ( motorcycling) that is a real feeling of satisfaction when you get it right.  God forbid you get it wrong!🏍️😱

I used to think the same. I had an IS200 with big exhaust and induction kit and it was fun. My Tesla is more fun with the g force of acceleration and instant response. No gears, no faff, just linear acceleration and buckets of power/torque whenever you want it. It's AWD with Mitchelin Pro Sport 4s and just sticks to the road. I find being about to do 0-60 in about 3.7s in near silence makes me smile. (Best done on a quiet dry road and I do tend to keep to the speed limit, just have fun getting there sometimes.) For me now the noise of old ICE cars now seems a bit well... pathetic, even BTCC and F1 which I enjoy. When I'm just cruising, which is most of the time, the acceleration, silence and one pedal driving make it effortless and relaxing to drive. I'd never go back even if it cost me more to run.

[Malc1]

13 hours ago, javadude said:

I'd never go back even if it cost me more to run.

Chris, I presume you had a Lexus V8 of some sort to compare ?

Malc

[GMB]

22 hours ago, Malc1 said:

Chris, I presume you had a Lexus V8 of some sort to compare ?

Malc

I think it must be an age thing. I love the v8 experience. Many many years ago I just liked to race around and go fast. A few   (56 since passing the tests)  years and a few bans, speeding fines, write-offs, car repairs, etc later I now appreciate the finer aspects of real cars of character. It is almost impossible to even do the traffic light grand prix anymore as you will draw the attention of the dashcam snitches. ( I have a dashcam too🤨).

Now I enjoy the "drama" and feel of a fast v8 and very occasionally give it some stick, keeping an eye out for the cameras and occasional plod hiding behind a dustbin. I feel lucky to have finally got one. - I did have a 1976 rover P6 v8 but that was about 160BHP and not very quick compared to today but it still sounded great. It rotted to death🤯

 

[Malc1]

Gray,  have you a 1992 Ls400 then ?

Malc

[GMB]

3 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

Gray,  have you a 1992 Ls400 then ?

Malc

I wanted one a few years back but could not afford one and I remember all the fuss when they were first launched. But, three years ago, I was fortunate enough to find a nice Isf 2012 which has proved - up to now - 100% reliable. Sad news is that it is going SORN until next spring due to massive increases in insurance plus the usual road/robber tax £695 and expensive annual service. Thanks for asking.🥲

[Malc1]

28 minutes ago, GMB said:

I wanted one a few years back but could not afford one and I remember all the fuss when they were first launched. But, three years ago, I was fortunate enough to find a nice Isf 2012 which has proved - up to now - 100% reliable. Sad news is that it is going SORN until next spring due to massive increases in insurance plus the usual road/robber tax £695 and expensive annual service. Thanks for asking.🥲

Road Tax on my 91 and 95 Ls400s are £325 and Indy servicing can be / is for me, comparatively inexpensive thankfully ……. Keeping them in good sensible roadworthy condition is I feel key to ongoing low maintenance costs overall  ……. and hopefully, fingers xd these two delights will keep going for a while yet ……. It’s just that dopey E5 fuel costs that keep me poor 🥲

Malc 

[Linas.P]

2 hours ago, GMB said:

I think it must be an age thing. I love the v8 experience. Many many years ago I just liked to race around and go fast. A few   (56 since passing the tests)  years and a few bans, speeding fines, write-offs, car repairs, etc later I now appreciate the finer aspects of real cars of character. It is almost impossible to even do the traffic light grand prix anymore as you will draw the attention of the dashcam snitches. ( I have a dashcam too🤨).

Now I enjoy the "drama" and feel of a fast v8 and very occasionally give it some stick, keeping an eye out for the cameras and occasional plod hiding behind a dustbin. I feel lucky to have finally got one. - I did have a 1976 rover P6 v8 but that was about 160BHP and not very quick compared to today but it still sounded great. It rotted to death🤯

I don't think it is age thing i.e. younger people appreciating old technology less (or something along the lines). This is more of quartz vs. automatic thing. Quartz watches are factually superior to any mechanical watches, yet would you rather have £20 Casio or £6000 Omega as present? Similar reason as well why there is so much debate about manual vs. automatic gearbox.

As well different people appreciate different things and I don't think it is age thing either. I just appreciate nice, naturally aspirated, high revving engine - electric may be faster, but I don't care, I just don't enjoy driving them. And trust me I tried... not l ludicrous mode, but Model S and Model 3 are plenty fast enough of the line even without it. 

If anything in todays traffic I started appreciating opposite of "efficient" - that are cars that create a lot of drama at low speeds, hence I am looking for classic car, like your Rover P8 example, not fast but creates noises at low speed. Because Tesla is just no good - in most places you can't even do 60MPH, so what is the point of 3s to 60MPH? 1.5s enjoyment at the time getting to 30MPH? we getting to the point of 20MPH... I do appreciate safety aspect of acceleration, but car that can do 6s to 60MPH is plenty fast enough in my experience. 5s or 4s perhaps is nice to have, anything below 4s are diminishing returns and I can't see any use for that.

So when it comes to electric cars - their acceleration advantage is useless, ICEVs can easily reach the point of 4-6s acceleration and ICEVs can give sense of speed and drama at lower speeds. I guess EVs are theoretically good in terms of comfort when cruising, in theory they are quieter and that perhaps is appreciated by some. However, in practice that is an issue - ICE engine humming is rather relaxing for most and it masks annoying wind and road noises (turns out to be something with frequencies that human body enjoys), so in practice EVs have to be way more insulated for noise otherwise they just annoying at cruising speeds.

As well I would not be worried about dashcams as much, I have one as well, but in practice unless you admit to offence when asked the chances of prosecution are very low. Not to mention - police literally does not care. I even had hit and run case on dashcam and they told me "not in public interest to investigate". So the chances for them investigating you harmlessly accelerating from the lights is beyond impossible. 

[Malc1]

V8s forever 🤩

Malc

[LenT]

45 minutes ago, Malc1 said:

V8s forever 🤩

Malc

V6s for a great deal of the time…

Len

[Barry14UK]

I think age does play a part for many people.  Certainly, when I was young I liked fast noisy cars and motorcycles and had them on roads and race tracks.  Actually, I enjoyed doing off road motorcycle trials most where each 'section' posed a challenge and the occasional one meant you flew through the air following a jump rather like experienced in scrambles or motorcross.  (I can understand the thrill competitors can get flying through the air on ski jumps, something I missed out on).

However, as the years have gone by, I have come to enjoy more the serenity and comfortable ride of my RX and 'my music' rather than the sound of a noisy exhaust.  Fast acceleration and high speed is no longer a great attraction, although I wouldn't mind a short blast like I enjoyed in a Ferrari some years ago and my v8 Maserati wasn't slow.  If a current owner agreed to take me out for a nostalgic spin in it for a relatively short time, I wouldn't  turn it down but wouldn't want it as an everyday car and I have no need to try and impress girl friends or neighbours. I do think that racing would lose something if all cars were only electric though.

It must be frustrating to some to have a very high speed car, however powered, and be limited by speed limits and slow drivers in front and so many more vehicles on the road, so you need to 'track' your bike or car if you want to exploit it's potential, at least in the UK.  Furthermore, apart from vague promises made some years ago to increase speed limits, the overall trend has been the other way, particularly if you drive in Wales!  There are some who would wish current speed limits more strictly enforced without any tolerance which if implemented would mean the need to drive well within these limits.  Also, I read that it is now proposed to introduce cameras with radar that will detect drivers slowing down a considerable way before them and after they are passed.  I can see a future where 'the powers that be' will want us to travel in a way that speed and acceleration is determined outside of the control of the driver, so the rewarding driving experience is removed and no longer at the discretion of the driver, so less important how vehicles are powered.

In retrospect, I am glad I had the experience of speed as a young motorcyclist when there were no speed limits on many roads so you rode as safely as you felt circumstances permitted, when crowd barriers at circuits were close to the track so you could get up close to the action.  I don't go to race circuits any more but have noted at some that there is a more substantial barrier that has since been added further away from the track.  Brands Hatch is an example, somewhere I spent many a happy visit. Of course, restrictions have improved safely but there has to be a sense of proportion and practicality on the roads, so except in exceptional circumstances further speed limits or more strictly enforced ones should not be imposed.  Driving on the road is not a sport but I am sure regulators see it only in terms of statistics of safely getting from A to B.  Deriving enjoyment or satisfaction from driving is not a consideration. 

   

[Malc1]

13 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

Driving on the road is not a sport but I am sure regulators see it only in terms of statistics of safely getting from A to B.  Deriving enjoyment or satisfaction from driving is not a consideration. 

I think you're quite correct nowadays BUT cyclists can Sport Speed at will coz I'm reading they are NOT subject to road speed limits 

AND there are so many ridiculously thought out roadworks / improvement programmes currently in place that any speed at all, even 10 - 20 mph is often wishful thinking ...........  maybe a Govt ploy towards road safety .....  keeping all the traffic in " jams " 

Anyway, where did this term " traffic jam " come from one wonders, the inability to freely flow in a pot of raspberry jam comes to mind 😆

Malc

[GMB]

Barry and Malc I could not agree more. I still have the motorbike ( and the historic broken bones to prove it ) and the fast car and still enjoy them while I still can. However driving pleasure is nothing compared to what it once was. As you imply; our driving experience is being controlled and ruined by all the restrictions. It's all about safe careful drivers and not so much about limits.

The last time I went out on the bike for a quick spin in sunny weather I did not get out of second gear and just sat in queues at traffic lights and even stuck in a queue because some idiot refused to pass a bolshy lycra lout hogging the road. I went home after 20 minutes of frustration and had a good moan at the Mrs about the joys of motoring today.

Even our country roads have more 50mph average speed cameras. Having been out of the UK for many years, on my return I noticed that the standard of driving has reduced dramatically, the roads are badly congested, the potholes are omni-present. The cameras are everywhere. The lunatics are running the asylum.      -  Nurse!!!!🤕

[Malc1]

31 minutes ago, GMB said:

The lunatics are running the asylum. 

and the latest Highways Agency / Govt suggestion ( possibly for Climate Change, fumes protection too maybe )  is to build a tunnel under the Stonehenge area to reduce / take away the traffic on that oft congested road passing alongside Stonehenge  .  you know, we all slow down a little to take a peek at the Stones if we can ....... ...... then we speed up until the next congestion spot to try to get down ta' West Country !

NOW  believe it or not that tunnel and roadworks is going to cost  £ 1.7 billion, YES billion  .......  the whole of HS2 was only going to be about £57bln

No worries tho' English Heritage whatever have put in an objection that the tunnel won't be quite right for their Heritage niche !

WTF  

Malc

 

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, GMB said:

he last time I went out on the bike for a quick spin in sunny weather I did not get out of second gear and just sat in queues at traffic lights and even stuck in a queue because some idiot refused to pass a bolshy lycra lout hogging the road. I went home after 20 minutes of frustration and had a good moan at the Mrs about the joys of motoring today.

Fully correct and not only in the UK. I started driving a bike way back in 1980. The number of cars on the road was half of what it is now, police was not really interested in speeding ( and had no radar). The small countryroads were not filled with in lycra wrapped middle aged groups of men on expensive racebikes and nobody cared about driving like a maniac or even noise. Remember the 4 in 1 exhausts without dampers? I even had a Suzuki 750 3 cylinder twinstroke for a short period of time. Replaced the original exhaust with a 3 in 1 expansion without dampers. The noise was absolutely deafening, the bike suicidal. With todays knowledge it is bizarre what was allowed back then. 

On a summers night i hear the imprezas, bikes, and whatever fast doing their rounds from 22.00 hrs on. no traffic and looking for a thrill. But even that will disappear. Belgium has started to install section control areas ( intelligent radar system pic of number plate when you enter one in the middle and then when out. over the limit is 100% fine within 24 hrs all fully automatic) on B ROADS. For sure this will come to an area near you. Finding a thrill at low speed seems the only thing left. Narrow tyres, small wheels and a truly bad chassis can give that just drive a suzuki swift from 20 yrs old, every roundabout is a challenge at 40 kmh!

[GMB]

49 minutes ago, dutchie01 said:

Narrow tyres, small wheels and a truly bad chassis can give that just drive a suzuki swift from 20 yrs old, every roundabout is a challenge at 40 kmh!

For sheer terror, excitement and buttock clenching fear try getting one of these round a gravel infested potholed roundabout. It took me quite a few days scary practice and It is still not easy.

[Rabbers]

Ageing has its benefits, or so I like to think.

I drive a little slower but more safely because experience has taught me to anticipate the idiocy of others;  I eat and drink less but enjoy my meals better;  I walk and generally move slower but act accordingly and with exactly the same results as before.

As regards other things, they are nobody’s business but my own.

[Linas.P]

17 hours ago, Barry14UK said:

I think age does play a part for many people.  Certainly, when I was young I liked fast noisy cars and motorcycles and had them on roads and race tracks.  Actually, I enjoyed doing off road motorcycle trials most where each 'section' posed a challenge and the occasional one meant you flew through the air following a jump rather like experienced in scrambles or motorcross.  (I can understand the thrill competitors can get flying through the air on ski jumps, something I missed out on).

However, as the years have gone by, I have come to enjoy more the serenity and comfortable ride of my RX and 'my music' rather than the sound of a noisy exhaust.  Fast acceleration and high speed is no longer a great attraction, although I wouldn't mind a short blast like I enjoyed in a Ferrari some years ago and my v8 Maserati wasn't slow.  If a current owner agreed to take me out for a nostalgic spin in it for a relatively short time, I wouldn't  turn it down but wouldn't want it as an everyday car and I have no need to try and impress girl friends or neighbours. I do think that racing would lose something if all cars were only electric though.

It must be frustrating to some to have a very high speed car, however powered, and be limited by speed limits and slow drivers in front and so many more vehicles on the road, so you need to 'track' your bike or car if you want to exploit it's potential, at least in the UK.  Furthermore, apart from vague promises made some years ago to increase speed limits, the overall trend has been the other way, particularly if you drive in Wales!  There are some who would wish current speed limits more strictly enforced without any tolerance which if implemented would mean the need to drive well within these limits.  Also, I read that it is now proposed to introduce cameras with radar that will detect drivers slowing down a considerable way before them and after they are passed.  I can see a future where 'the powers that be' will want us to travel in a way that speed and acceleration is determined outside of the control of the driver, so the rewarding driving experience is removed and no longer at the discretion of the driver, so less important how vehicles are powered.

In retrospect, I am glad I had the experience of speed as a young motorcyclist when there were no speed limits on many roads so you rode as safely as you felt circumstances permitted, when crowd barriers at circuits were close to the track so you could get up close to the action.  I don't go to race circuits any more but have noted at some that there is a more substantial barrier that has since been added further away from the track.  Brands Hatch is an example, somewhere I spent many a happy visit. Of course, restrictions have improved safely but there has to be a sense of proportion and practicality on the roads, so except in exceptional circumstances further speed limits or more strictly enforced ones should not be imposed.  Driving on the road is not a sport but I am sure regulators see it only in terms of statistics of safely getting from A to B.  Deriving enjoyment or satisfaction from driving is not a consideration. 

   

I agree with most of what you said and I said myself that driving in UK, in western Europe in general is becoming less enjoyable and more and more hostile towards the drivers.

Although I wanted to add one more point - I actually don't mind speed limits being enforced, BUT only if they set reasonably high in the first place. For example I honestly do not see the reason and don't have have desire to drive faster than 90MPH on British motorways. In Germany sure, it is completely different, lane discipline and driver training is far better and when I go on Autobahn I just set cruise control at 120MPH and leave it there, but on British motorways 90MPH would be sufficient and they can even enforce it strictly if they want. Incidentally most of Europe adopted 130-140KPH speed limits so 80-90MPH would not be anything crazy, just in line with the rest of the continent.  So that is the main problem in UK - speed limits are already set too low to be efficient and comfortable to travel at, and now we have pressure to lower them even further. If speed limits were reasonable then they can be enforced, but sadly it seems we will be getting double whammy, not only the limits which are way unreasonable and too low, but as well maniacs enforcing it to the single MPH.

Again I would add - this is mostly to do with dishonest politicians, for very long time they blamed all accidents on speed, because that is convenient excuse - "nothing wrong with the road, just people using it wrong, driving too fast etc". So overtime the sentiment was created that speed = danger and therefore to avoid injuries the speed has to be reduced, despite accidents being caused by all sorts of things, not only speed. And we see this happening over and over again in different context - politicians creates the false narrative to shift the blame somewhere else, then people demand the issue to be death with and then politicians deals with wrong issue in wrong way. Basically, because they never want to admit lying, they just throw new lies after the old ones and leads us all into wrong direction. This is particularly convenient when that wrong direction as well means raising money for government.