Taking the plunge in to EV

[ivancrx]

I was in my local dealership yesterday just checking on the new UX we are collecting on 1st is all as expected so I thought I would have a look at the RZ (The UX is for the wife, fair swap I thought).

I have to say I was quite impressed in the short time I was looking over it, so much so I am borrowing one next weekend for a couple of days.

I know very little about electric vehicles and am unsure if it is time to get into them yet or wait a little longer?

My first silly question (I am sure there will be loads of them) is about charging them at home, is there a charger that is supplied with the vehicle when you buy one or would this be an additional cost on top of the vehicle?

I have owned 6 other Lexus vehicles over the last few years so I am a little brainwashed towards the brand and especially the service I get from our dealer but I have read most of the posts on the forum and there are a few worrying things with the RZ, Build Quality, Charging Problems, Lack of knowledge by technicians when thing go wrong, but I like to make my own mind up.

I have a 2021 RX at the moment and the insurance on it is going silly even having had the security modification on it, I have been quoted between £1200-£3900 to insure it when it only cost £600 last year.

Going to be an interesting journey I think.

[John Adams]

I had a charger fitted free by Lexus when I bought the NX450 last year. Not sure if there are any deals available with them now but you could always ask . Otherwise be prepared to pay £1000 or so for a charger.

With regards to issues, there is absolutely no problem with build quality and it is what you would  expect from a Lexus.  Most of my issues have been niggly ones mainly with the software but also intermittent charging issues on ac which will eventually be sorted. It doesn't stop me using the car. I always wanted an electric car and as i have always owned Lexus I waited for this to arrive. I thought long and hard before I bought it and overall it is not a bad car but I think it is overpriced for what it is. I'm still a bit peeved that I only have one key at the moment  which is inconvenient and no locking wheel nuts until the end of the year but again, it will eventually be sorted

As always, my opinion and I would suggest a good test drive so you can make your mind up. Good luck!

[ivancrx]

18 minutes ago, John Adams said:

I had a charger fitted free by Lexus when I bought the NX450 last year. Not sure if there are any deals available with them now but you could always ask . Otherwise be prepared to pay £1000 or so for a charger.

With regards to issues, there is absolutely no problem with build quality and it is what you would  expect from a Lexus.  Most of my issues have been niggly ones mainly with the software but also intermittent charging issues on ac which will eventually be sorted. It doesn't stop me using the car. I always wanted an electric car and as i have always owned Lexus I waited for this to arrive. I thought long and hard before I bought it and overall it is not a bad car but I think it is overpriced for what it is. I'm still a bit peeved that I only have one key at the moment  which is inconvenient and no locking wheel nuts until the end of the year but again, it will eventually be sorted

As always, my opinion and I would suggest a good test drive so you can make your mind up. Good luck!

Thank you John most appreciated.

I will try and press for a charger from Lexus then. I am looking forward to a couple of days with the car so I can give it a good test before I decide.

[talaipwros]

1 hour ago, ivancrx said:

I was in my local dealership yesterday just checking on the new UX we are collecting on 1st is all as expected so I thought I would have a look at the RZ (The UX is for the wife, fair swap I thought).

I have to say I was quite impressed in the short time I was looking over it, so much so I am borrowing one next weekend for a couple of days.

I know very little about electric vehicles and am unsure if it is time to get into them yet or wait a little longer?

My first silly question (I am sure there will be loads of them) is about charging them at home, is there a charger that is supplied with the vehicle when you buy one or would this be an additional cost on top of the vehicle?

I have owned 6 other Lexus vehicles over the last few years so I am a little brainwashed towards the brand and especially the service I get from our dealer but I have read most of the posts on the forum and there are a few worrying things with the RZ, Build Quality, Charging Problems, Lack of knowledge by technicians when thing go wrong, but I like to make my own mind up.

I have a 2021 RX at the moment and the insurance on it is going silly even having had the security modification on it, I have been quoted between £1200-£3900 to insure it when it only cost £600 last year.

Going to be an interesting journey I think.

It is a lovely vehicle, but as you are new to EV's what do you think its actuall motorway range is?

[ivancrx]

15 minutes ago, talaipwros said:

It is a lovely vehicle, but as you are new to EV's what do you think its actuall motorway range is?

I would expect around 180 miles as a realistic number, most of my driving is around town these days with only the occasional motorway use. If going any distance I understand the need to factor in charging but this would fit in with comfort stops. Gone are my days of needing to get everywhere as fast as possible.

[John Adams]

7 minutes ago, ivancrx said:

I would expect around 180 miles as a realistic number, most of my driving is around town these days with only the occasional motorway use. If going any distance I understand the need to factor in charging but this would fit in with comfort stops. Gone are my days of needing to get everywhere as fast as possible.

Interestingly, I've done a couple of longish trips on the Motorway at a steady 60mph (I don't drive fast these days) in econ and with the ac on as and when needed. I'm getting 2.9m/kwh which is around 185miles. I haven't had a problem charging on the motorway -yet. However, for the last couple of weeks I have been driving locally on 30/40mph roads and I am struggling to get above 3m/kwh for some reason . I know the forthcoming software update will increase the range as they are reducing the buffer.

[ivancrx]

2 hours ago, John Adams said:

Interestingly, I've done a couple of longish trips on the Motorway at a steady 60mph (I don't drive fast these days) in econ and with the ac on as and when needed. I'm getting 2.9m/kwh which is around 185miles. I haven't had a problem charging on the motorway -yet. However, for the last couple of weeks I have been driving locally on 30/40mph roads and I am struggling to get above 3m/kwh for some reason . I know the forthcoming software update will increase the range as they are reducing the buffer.

So 180 miles is about right for motorway driving.

[talaipwros]

7 minutes ago, ivancrx said:

So 180 miles is about right for motorway driving.

motorway driving at 60mph, at 70mph with a temperature of 10 degrees celcius and AC on, Lexus website says 152 miles

[ColinBarber]

5 hours ago, talaipwros said:

motorway driving at 60mph, at 70mph with a temperature of 10 degrees celcius and AC on, Lexus website says 152 miles

wind and especially rain is also a factor - pulling litres of water off the road with every rotation of a wheel with a big wide tyres can make a noticeable difference. 

[wivenhoe]

I agree with John - the build quality is excellent and everything feels like it will last in the Lexus tradition. My problems may well not be representative and you have to look at other manufacturers and they all seem to be having issues - pure EV’s are new to them and whilst BMW & Merc have been building them for some time,they have their issues and are far more expensive for similar specs. 
The Takumi is worth considering as the dimmable roof is very effective although the increase in price is a bit ott, although the ML sounds and more sophisticated dampers seem worthwhile. 
When looking at charging, you quickly understand why all EV’s spec the time for 20% to 80%. Like most others, no matter what speed charger you connect to, at 80% the RZ charge rate plummets to about 10kw / hour, so the last 20% will take over an hour. I have found on 150kw chargers the 20% - 80% time is about 30 mins so the same as the brochure. 

Tesla doesn’t protect their batteries by severely restricting the rate at 80% but then you do risk having ‘sub optimal’ build quality !

Good luck with the demo. Whilst I too are bit old for road racing I picked up a ES today as a curtesy car and I honestly thought the handbrake was half engaged when I took off. Looking now the 0 - 60 for the ES is near 10s but the RZ is near 5 so I was being unfair in my expectations of the ES. 

[ColinBarber]

14 hours ago, wivenhoe said:

Tesla doesn’t protect their batteries by severely restricting the rate at 80% but then you do risk having ‘sub optimal’ build quality !

Where is the evidence of this? All the charging curves I've seen and tests by people like Bjørn Nyland show their charging curves are average, with some other manufacturers being more aggressive. e.g.

 

 

Interestingly the charge curve of the Toyota bZ4X is very different with new software, it doesn't fall off a cliff at 80% but doesn't charge as fast when flat. If you go with conventional wisdom of only charging to 80% before moving on (it is faster to charge to 80% and charge more often than going to 100% with less stops) then this doesn't really help, but if you need more than 80% to get to the next stop then you benefit.

[ivancrx]

22 hours ago, John Adams said:

I'm still a bit peeved that I only have one key at the moment  which is inconvenient and no locking wheel nuts until the end of the year but again, it will eventually be sorted.

I assume that it should have been fitted with the locking nuts from the factory? I can't understand how they can't get a set until the end of the year a bit of a basic item I would have thought, then inky one key, has one broken or did it only come with one at handover? These little things make you wonder if Lexus are slipping in their service?

 

[John Adams]

26 minutes ago, ivancrx said:

I assume that it should have been fitted with the locking nuts from the factory? I can't understand how they can't get a set until the end of the year a bit of a basic item I would have thought, then inky one key, has one broken or did it only come with one at handover? These little things make you wonder if Lexus are slipping in their service?

 

When I bought the NX450 plug in March 22, it came with 2 keys and the card key and locking wheel nuts. I was told by my dealer that all cars this year will be initially  supplied with one key because of a shortage of components and that the second key will have to be ordered.  They also told me that Lexus have stopped supplying locking wheel nuts  to all new cars and even  told me my NX wasn't supplied with them when clearly it was. I subsequently spoke to Lexus CS who told me locking wheel nuts will be supplied to all cars supplied without them by the year end and the second key within 3 months or so. Of course, i then have a 200 mile trip to get them fitted and the key programmed. 

[ColinBarber]

1 hour ago, John Adams said:

When I bought the NX450 plug in March 22, it came with 2 keys and the card key and locking wheel nuts. I was told by my dealer that all cars this year will be initially  supplied with one key because of a shortage of components and that the second key will have to be ordered.  They also told me that Lexus have stopped supplying locking wheel nuts  to all new cars and even  told me my NX wasn't supplied with them when clearly it was. I subsequently spoke to Lexus CS who told me locking wheel nuts will be supplied to all cars supplied without them by the year end and the second key within 3 months or so. Of course, i then have a 200 mile trip to get them fitted and the key programmed. 

Sounds like they may stop fitting locking wheel nuts at the factory and only fit them in country (although I though that is what they did anyway - certain that is how it worked a number of year ago). Within the UK having locking wheel nuts is a factor in the vehicle's insurance grouping (which is why Lexus sometimes stipulate they are Thatcham approved) so suddenly stopping it may result in a group rerating. Possibly the delay is because some of the new vehicle's wheel hubs have a different design to old which require different wheel nuts/bolts but surely if cannot be that hard to find a supplier. Not supplying locking wheel nuts is perfectly fine, but they need to make sure buyers are aware by not stating so in sales literature and that the insurance industry is also aware - if a rerating were needed, the insurance industry would create 2023 versions of each model for owners to select when specifying their vehicle in insurance quotes.

The keys are slightly easier to understand with potential component shortages but this really is wearing thin now given that most companies supply chain issues are now easing. 

[John Adams]

19 minutes ago, ColinBarber said:

Sounds like they may stop fitting locking wheel nuts at the factory and only fit them in country (although I though that is what they did anyway - certain that is how it worked a number of year ago). Within the UK having locking wheel nuts is a factor in the vehicle's insurance grouping (which is why Lexus sometimes stipulate they are Thatcham approved) so suddenly stopping it may result in a group rerating. Possibly the delay is because some of the new vehicle's wheel hubs have a different design to old which require different wheel nuts/bolts but surely if cannot be that hard to find a supplier. Not supplying locking wheel nuts is perfectly fine, but they need to make sure buyers are aware by not stating so in sales literature and that the insurance industry is also aware - if a rerating were needed, the insurance industry would create 2023 versions of each model for owners to select when specifying their vehicle in insurance quotes.

The keys are slightly easier to understand with potential component shortages but this really is wearing thin now given that most companies supply chain issues are now easing. 

Colin you are right. Locking wheel nuts were always fitted in the UK. It used to be in Portbury up to a few years ago and then the dealers started fitting them at the PDI prior to delivery after the Portbury facility closed. I really cannot understand why wheel nuts cannot be sourced in the UK. 

[talaipwros]

On 8/21/2023 at 11:06 AM, ivancrx said:

I was in my local dealership yesterday just checking on the new UX we are collecting on 1st is all as expected so I thought I would have a look at the RZ (The UX is for the wife, fair swap I thought).

I have to say I was quite impressed in the short time I was looking over it, so much so I am borrowing one next weekend for a couple of days.

I know very little about electric vehicles and am unsure if it is time to get into them yet or wait a little longer?

My first silly question (I am sure there will be loads of them) is about charging them at home, is there a charger that is supplied with the vehicle when you buy one or would this be an additional cost on top of the vehicle?

I have owned 6 other Lexus vehicles over the last few years so I am a little brainwashed towards the brand and especially the service I get from our dealer but I have read most of the posts on the forum and there are a few worrying things with the RZ, Build Quality, Charging Problems, Lack of knowledge by technicians when thing go wrong, but I like to make my own mind up.

I have a 2021 RX at the moment and the insurance on it is going silly even having had the security modification on it, I have been quoted between £1200-£3900 to insure it when it only cost £600 last year.

Going to be an interesting journey I think.

If you are still looking, Premier ( essentially base) model but at under 60K ( only just) at Edinburgh , delivery miles ( 10 )

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308211029337

 

Even better, delivery miles Takumi, £62995.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307129560169

[Kevin Williams]

28 minutes ago, talaipwros said:

If you are still looking, Premier ( essentially base) model but at under 60K ( only just) at Edinburgh , delivery miles ( 10 )

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308211029337

 

Even better, delivery miles Takumi, £62995.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307129560169

For info Ivan. I bought my LC 500 Convertible from Lexus Edinburgh... They are a great independent car dealer to buy a car from... I have bought several cars from Eastern Western Motor Group. They have all been delivered to me in Cornwall...

[Ken R]

14 hours ago, Kevin Williams said:

For info Ivan. I bought my LC 500 Convertible from Lexus Edinburgh... They are a great independent car dealer to buy a car from... I have bought several cars from Eastern Western Motor Group. They have all been delivered to me in Cornwall...

Agree. Lexus Edinburgh are superb to deal with.

[javadude]

On 8/21/2023 at 12:33 PM, John Adams said:

Interestingly, I've done a couple of longish trips on the Motorway at a steady 60mph (I don't drive fast these days) in econ and with the ac on as and when needed. I'm getting 2.9m/kwh which is around 185miles. I haven't had a problem charging on the motorway -yet. However, for the last couple of weeks I have been driving locally on 30/40mph roads and I am struggling to get above 3m/kwh for some reason . I know the forthcoming software update will increase the range as they are reducing the buffer.

I took a look at an RZ at my local dealers this week. The cabin looks a very nice space to be and wasn't as busy with buttons as I'd feared. The car is huge and not exactly aerodynamic at the front so I can see why efficency isn't great. For those looking for a big, comfortable, well built EV it looks a good option, just one that you'll need to charge more often. I suppose that's not so bad though as you should be stopping every couple of hours anyway and 180 miles is easily 3 hours driving. It was a useful visit: it's definitely not the car for me. For one thing it wouldn't fit in my garage. Just need an IS or NX sized EV...

Oh and the whole needing to buy a charger thing sat easier in my brain as I thought of it as a home improvement that will last across other cars in the future. Plus we needed our garage rewiring anyway so combined it with that.

[ivancrx]

Well I have picked the car up this morning and it drives fantastic very impressed. It is the Takumi that I have the use of for a couple of days  and so far the only thing I don't like about it is the seats, much prefer the leather in my RX and the head height getting in is lower.

I will be giving it a full run around this afternoon and tomorrow but so fat it is good.

[John Adams]

43 minutes ago, ivancrx said:

Well I have picked the car up this morning and it drives fantastic very impressed. It is the Takumi that I have the use of for a couple of days  and so far the only thing I don't like about it is the seats, much prefer the leather in my RX and the head height getting in is lower.

I will be giving it a full run around this afternoon and tomorrow but so fat it is good.

I agree with you 100% on the seats. Don't get me wrong, they are not bad but I prefer leather and a car of this class and price should have them like all the premium competitors.

 

By the way, as you have the Takumi try and see if you can get the radiant heaters to work. I have tried everything and I can't get them to work. Will eventually have to ask the dealer or probably Lexus cs but there must be an easy way to do it but i'm stumped. 

[ivancrx]

Well a small update on my views.

Lovely car to drive holds the road great, fantastic pick up the sat nave etc is so much better than in my RX, love the "Hey Lexus"  except when the wife is messing with it.Range on it was good, over 120 miles and still over half full. 

Didn't like the seats in the Takumi but that just my choice, head height getting in was too low but the big thing for me is that I couldn't get my fishing tackle in the boot as easy as the RX.

Overall a good weekend with it, the electric side of things was no issue, loved the looks of the outside bit the inside I found a bit bland . Would I buy one, no as it isn't large enough in the boot for me. 

I am now looking at the Plug in RX, yes it only has around 40 miles on a charge but that would suit most of my daily driving, but it is the cost of changing for very little extra, maybe I will wait a while longer before I take the plunge.

Thank you all for your inputs into this thread, most appreciated.

[Barry14UK]

I am sure there are quite a number holding off buying in order not to just see how this car compares with competitors but how the expansion of EVs is affected by charging facilities and whether Battery advances mean that existing EVs take a more heavy knock from later Battery powered models.  I can't see hydrogen powered cars being a challenge for many years due to need for infra structure.

I think it would require something better than the RZ to tempt me out of my RX and feel many others would feel the same.  Time will tell whether Lexus produce an EV SUV to compete with more up market models from competitors.

[talaipwros]

I have to say that for 50% more range - that is now the standard for the competition - I would not have cancelled the order ( Laxus kindly returned my £2000 deposit ).

If you want to scratch that EV itch, I would suggest buying a  used leaf e+. Their price is now rediculously low and is an excellent EV

[dutchie01]