Buying IS220d for a first is it a good buy?

[Code25]

Considering a Lexus IS220d 2007 model with over 100k mileage as a first car. Is this a wise purchase? What are the key factors I should consider and potential issues to look out for with this model?"

[Mincey]

I'd read all the posts on here about the IS220d. To be fair, I still see a lot of them around and they look to be in good condition. There are plenty of horror stories here to counter balance that though. If you can get an IS250 instead, I'd go with that and many others would give the same advice too.

[Code25]

Thank you very much I would search is250 instead.. Which year would you advise for the is250

[Notamech]

4 minutes ago, Code25 said:

Considering a Lexus IS220d 2007 model with over 100k mileage as a first car. Is this a wise purchase? What are the key factors I should consider and potential issues to look out for with this model?"

Largely depends on your usage. But i would recommend staying away from diesels unless you do lots of motorway miles. Given strict emissions standards diesels tend to have filters to capture and burn particulate matter. In order for this filter to effectively burn the particulate matter the filter needs to reach very high temperatures that typically only happen with long high speed driving. If not these DPFs tend to clog up over time. Diesels can also have their EGRs choke. If you're going to do short trips  infrequently get a petrol it will be cheaper and easier to maintain. 

[Linas.P]

1 hour ago, Code25 said:

Considering a Lexus IS220d 2007 model with over 100k mileage as a first car. Is this a wise purchase? What are the key factors I should consider and potential issues to look out for with this model?"

Absolutely not - avoid at all costs, so good decision to look for IS250

To expand a little bit as to why - constant DPF issues, EGR issues, head gasket issues, injector issues, DMF is problematic, if previous issues not resolved turbo issues, basically they are known to fall apart and forum is full of the constant issues. In theory if you doing 100 miles per day on motorway and do all preventative maintenance you could keep IS220d running, but by now all the IS220d are neglected to the point of uneconomical repair. 

Besides diesel doesn't even make that much sense compared to IS250. In the city both get quite similar MPG ~30, the only real advantage of diesel is on motorway where let's say IS250 gets 40+ and IS220d 50+. But on petrol you get very smooth engine and gearbox that actually sounds decent, and on diesel you get weird manual box where it requires you to do ~80MPH on motorway if you want to be in 6th, or you drive in 5th then you kind of need to stay ~65MPH. Which means that if you drive in 6th at 70MPH engine just doesn't get to the right RPM and doesn't clean-up DPF and if you stay in 5th then economy becomes similar if not worse than petrol.

[cdmaskell]

Totally agree with all the previous threads. Please avoid the 220D. Your pocket would greatly appreciate such a decision.

[J Henderson]

In addition to the above advice, make sure the IS250 is an automatic. A manual one will cost an eye-watering £675 a year for road tax.*

 

* unless it's a very early 55-plate example.

 

[LenT]

1 hour ago, Code25 said:

Considering a Lexus IS220d 2007 model with over 100k mileage as a first car. Is this a wise purchase? What are the key factors I should consider and potential issues to look out for with this model?"

You don’t mention one important factor - your budget.  Personally, I would go for the latest version of the IS250 that you can find.

Then all the other usual caveats apply.  So look for a full Dealer service record and check the history for any repairs.  Regular, competent maintenance is more important than actual mileage - or even the specific year or trim.

I would only buy from a recognised and established Lexus / Toyota dealer, or cars listed on Autotrader.  Some people buy of eBay, apparently!! 🙁

[Code25]

21 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

Absolutely not - avoid at all costs, so good decision to look for IS250

Which site would you advise I go to? 

[PaulWhitt20]

1 hour ago, Code25 said:

Considering a Lexus IS220d 2007 model with over 100k mileage as a first car. Is this a wise purchase? What are the key factors I should consider and potential issues to look out for with this model?"

Thank you for coming on here to ask before you potentially make a purchase you may regret.

Feel free to ask any questions, no mater how stupid they seem. We will try our best to help.

[Code25]

Thank you answering my worries and also I would like to ask which site would you advise I surf to get the is250? 

[PaulWhitt20]

Try AutoTrader, or any local dealers/reputable traders

[Linas.P]

55 minutes ago, LenT said:

You don’t mention one important factor - your budget.  Personally, I would go for the latest version of the IS250 that you can find.

Then all the other usual caveats apply.  So look for a full Dealer service record and check the history for any repairs.  Regular, competent maintenance is more important than actual mileage - or even the specific year or trim.

I would only buy from a recognised and established Lexus / Toyota dealer, or cars listed on Autotrader.  Some people buy of eBay, apparently!! 🙁

Agree with all, but not the latest model you could get.

I would not - I would go opposite, the earliest one you can find, because there is no mechanical difference between 2005-2015. So I just can't see any reason to overpay for basically the same car. Now sure - if you want more modern looking car then you should go for mk3 (2013+), but there is honestly no difference between 2005-2012, except you would pay more for a later car. Yes later cars got upgraded sat-nav, but by todays standards both are equally useless and both could and should be replaced by android system, 2006 cars got upgrade to wented rear discs, but that has no benefit in real life. Really don't know why would one go for later car.

What is important is to make sure the cars maintained - these cars are known to run forever as long as they are serviced well. Mileage almost doesn't matter, the higher is the mileage the better value is the car, as long as it has service history. I personally had IS250 up-to 200k miles and it required minimal maintenance, but I acquired one with 120k miles and 13 Lexus services, even at 120k miles (~6 years old back then) it looked almost new inside. 

As for manual - indeed unless you get late 2005 car (before April 2006), it will be ridiculous £675 to tax and it has same issues as diesel manual when it comes to DMF and clutch, and that is costly £1000 to repair. Solid flywheels are available, but not at all cheaper and weird gearing is still present. So I would advise going for auto as it seems to suit the V6 engine very well and it is very pleasant and smooth ride. 

[Linas.P]

26 minutes ago, PaulWhitt20 said:

Thank you for coming on here to ask before you potentially make a purchase you may regret.

Feel free to ask any questions, no mater how stupid they seem. We will try our best to help.

Yes - it is so sad that so many people come to ask for help after they have already purchased IS220d, rather than asking before making this costly mistake. 

[LenT]

5 hours ago, LenT said:

 Some people buy of eBay, apparently!! 🙁

 Drat!!
’off eBay’ …obviously!

Another tipping mistook!

[J Henderson]

5 hours ago, Linas.P said:

there is honestly no difference between 2005-2012

2011-2012 cars are slightly more efficient.

Can't remember exactly why this is, or how it is achieved, but the newest models have better fuel economy and lower emissions which puts them into a cheaper tax band - J instead of K.

 

[Linas.P]

Not trough mechanical difference, if anything maybe a slight change ECU mapping or something like that. Even then - it would not translate into significant practical change in fuel consumption.

[H3XME]

18 hours ago, Code25 said:

Considering a Lexus IS220d 2007 model with over 100k mileage as a first car. Is this a wise purchase? What are the key factors I should consider and potential issues to look out for with this model?"

As above - Do NOT get the diesel. Even if by some miracle you get a good one, there will be more to fix/maintain in the long run.

If you can, go for IS250. Manual is quite good, a lot of them have LSD too, it's a different gearbox and ratio to the diesel, so much better drivability but manuals cost more to tax, unless you can find '55 or '06 plate manuals - they costs as much as autos to tax. Or ideally, go for Automatic, easy to drive and hassle free, BUT they cost considerably more than manuals just because they're more sought after. After all it's Lexus, makes sense people want automatic more.

I've had 3 250s over the years, always come back to them because they're good cars. I do 60miles/day commute in my manual, and like others have said, you can get ~30 in town if you're gentle on the throttle and 40+ on the motorway (I get about 43mpg at 70mph).

Think of it this way, it may cost you a little more to buy the petrol, but in the long run it will be a much cheaper car to run than the diesel because all the things that go wrong on 220s are just engine related. The only common fault these two cars share are sticky calipers (or more specifically slider pins that cost £20) if you don't regularly grease them up (once a year). 

[H3XME]

16 hours ago, Linas.P said:

same issues as diesel manual when it comes to DMF and clutch, and that is costly £1000 to repair. Solid flywheels are available, but not at all cheaper and weird gearing is still present. 

Agreed on the fact that auto is perhaps more suited for this car, it's not really sporty by any means in a stock form.

Clutch job is £625 (just had a quote last week). Dual Mass Flywheel doesn't need changing typically - this depends on mileage and how it's been driven. They will tell you to change the DMF too just to get more money from you but if there are no heat spots or anything, there's no reason to replace it. My last 250 had its first clutch changed at 140k miles. DMF was still good on it and had it until almost 180k miles - no issues. However, DMF is around £1k from Lexus and that's the only place you can buy one, IIRC. Solid flywheels are ~£500-600 but I'd only consider this for sportier driving or whatever you wanna do with the car if you don't mind extra vibration. DMF reduces vibrations. 

The gearing is not weird on the petrol at all. Having driven both, manual and auto, you can drive exactly the same (5th gear at 30mph etc), the only difference is that manual petrols have 3.9 final drive which results in 2500RPM at 70mph in 6th gear which is roughly 300rpm higher than auto, but it also means it accelerates slightly better.

[steve2006]

Obviously your preferences regarding colour and specifications are unknown but here’s an example.

Several worn tyre advisories over the years and suspension dust boots but nothing much more.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307270135127?sort=relevance&advertising-location=at_cars&include-delivery-option=on&make=Lexus&model=IS 250&page=3&postcode=De55 1bg&fromsra

[Linas.P]

54 minutes ago, H3XME said:

Agreed on the fact that auto is perhaps more suited for this car, it's not really sporty by any means in a stock form.

Clutch job is £625 (just had a quote last week). Dual Mass Flywheel doesn't need changing typically - this depends on mileage and how it's been driven. They will tell you to change the DMF too just to get more money from you but if there are no heat spots or anything, there's no reason to replace it. My last 250 had its first clutch changed at 140k miles. DMF was still good on it and had it until almost 180k miles - no issues. However, DMF is around £1k from Lexus and that's the only place you can buy one, IIRC. Solid flywheels are ~£500-600 but I'd only consider this for sportier driving or whatever you wanna do with the car if you don't mind extra vibration. DMF reduces vibrations. 

The gearing is not weird on the petrol at all. Having driven both, manual and auto, you can drive exactly the same (5th gear at 30mph etc), the only difference is that manual petrols have 3.9 final drive which results in 2500RPM at 70mph in 6th gear which is roughly 300rpm higher than auto, but it also means it accelerates slightly better.

DMF is usually recommended because, the clutch job itself is quite costly, so when you already have it apart it just makes sense to do it at the same time and as well, you must replace clutch when replacing flywheel (of any kind, same as pads when replacing discs) so it would be unfortunate to pay £600 for clutch + like £300 to replace it, just to pay this again next year + DMF. But I get what you are saying - it may not need doing every time. 

If I am not mistaken, there are two gearings for IS250 - Sport/SR which has shorter rations (sounds like what you describing) and long rations similar to diesel (they are different but related gearboxes) which goes into SE, SE-L? 

[H3XME]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

it would be unfortunate to pay £600 for clutch + like £300 to replace it, just to pay this again next year + DMF. But I get what you are saying - it may not need doing every time. 

If I am not mistaken, there are two gearings for IS250 - Sport/SR which has shorter rations (sounds like what you describing) and long rations similar to diesel (they are different but related gearboxes) which goes into SE, SE-L? 

No no, my £625 quote was clutch & labour included. Clutch on its own is ~£300, but I know what you're saying.

Hmm, I don't know. This is the first time I hear this. I have 2006 Sport now, and the black one was SE-I and it's exactly the same. No idea about SR, I would be surprised, but I suppose it's possible. It's like the LSD speculations.

Some people say that no 2IS had LSD. Some people say say only 2010+ cars had it as an optional extra etc..

In my experience, every UK manual I've come across had a factory Torsen LSD. I've come across only one Automatic with LSD, so I would say that it's very rare and 90%+ Automatics have open diffs, but with manual I'd say most if not all UK manuals have LSD.

I don't know how people try to find out, but the best way to find out is by doing a burnout. Only one wheel spins if it's open. Both wheels spin if it's LSD and you can check the tyre marks to be 100%. I'd suggest doing this on a patch of grass or when it's wet so you don't put unnecessary strain on your gearbox, especially if the car is fitted with factory size rear tyres😬

As for trying a power slide out of a corner - It's very difficult to tell if it's Open diff or LSD because even if it's open diff, it may feel like it's going sideways when in reality only 1 wheel spins. Stock suspension & big tyres don't help the case because the Torsen diff isn't anything amazing - it can be very temperamental (almost dangerous if you don't know what you're doing) because it will open and close depending on the amount of torque you send to the rear wheels. This LSD works the best when you have a foot to the floor because you're sending 100% of the torque down which is forcing the diff to lock. My car will drift a roundabout just fine now because it's lower, stiffer and on skinnier tyres - all of that helps to lock this LSD, but when it was stock it would struggle / wouldn't lock. So I understand where this confusion is coming from, but the only way to find out and be 100% sure is like I said above.. do a burnout and check tyre marks.

[Linas.P]

14 minutes ago, H3XME said:

No no, my £625 quote was clutch & labour included. Clutch on its own is ~£300, but I know what you're saying.

Hmm, I don't know. This is the first time I hear this. I have 2006 Sport now, and the black one was SE-I and it's exactly the same. No idea about SR, I would be surprised, but I suppose it's possible. It's like the LSD speculations.

Some people say that no 2IS had LSD. Some people say say only 2010+ cars had it as an optional extra etc..

In my experience, every UK manual I've come across had a factory Torsen LSD. I've come across only one Automatic with LSD, so I would say that it's very rare and 90%+ Automatics have open diffs, but with manual I'd say most if not all UK manuals have LSD.

I don't know how people try to find out, but the best way to find out is by doing a burnout. Only one wheel spins if it's open. Both wheels spin if it's LSD and you can check the tyre marks to be 100%. I'd suggest doing this on a patch of grass or when it's wet so you don't put unnecessary strain on your gearbox, especially if the car is fitted with factory size rear tyres😬

As for trying a power slide out of a corner - It's very difficult to tell if it's Open diff or LSD because even if it's open diff, it may feel like it's going sideways when in reality only 1 wheel spins. Stock suspension & big tyres don't help the case because the Torsen diff isn't anything amazing - it can be very temperamental (almost dangerous if you don't know what you're doing) because it will open and close depending on the amount of torque you send to the rear wheels. This LSD works the best when you have a foot to the floor because you're sending 100% of the torque down which is forcing the diff to lock. My car will drift a roundabout just fine now because it's lower, stiffer and on skinnier tyres - all of that helps to lock this LSD, but when it was stock it would struggle / wouldn't lock. So I understand where this confusion is coming from, but the only way to find out and be 100% sure is like I said above.. do a burnout and check tyre marks.

In which case I propose even different theory (and I just cannot see any material to support it, so it will remain a speculation) - the manual Sport/SR should have come with LSD, whereas SE/SE-L came without it. So the gearing difference may be based on final drive ratio of the diff, meaning Sport/SR got higher ratio, hence shorter gears. SE-i was only launched in 2009 and I don't believe it ever had manual available for it, or maybe none were sold. 

I was under impression that manual was not available after 2008, but I know here are few 2010 cars floating around with manuals (I would theorise maybe they were late registered 2008 model year cars?).

Kind of annoying that Lexus does not make old brochures available and now I just can't find what options were available back then. 

[H3XME]

10 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

In which case I propose even different theory (and I just cannot see any material to support it, so it will remain a speculation) - the manual Sport/SR should have come with LSD, whereas SE/SE-L came without it. So the gearing difference may be based on final drive ratio of the diff, meaning Sport/SR got higher ratio, hence shorter gears. SE-i was only launched in 2009 and I don't believe it ever had manual available for it, or maybe none were sold. 

I was under impression that manual was not available after 2008, but I know here are few 2010 cars floating around with manuals (I would theorise maybe they were late registered 2008 model year cars?).

Kind of annoying that Lexus does not make old brochures available and now I just can't find what options were available back then. 

My bad, my 2008 was just an SE, not SE-I. 

I agree, the "Sport/SR" trims should have something to be more "sporty" but in reality it had nothing to my knowledge. If anything it was basically a sport model. SR had the lip kit and spoiler at least. My '06 sport has nothing. It's like a base spec car. 

No, there was a handful of early facelifts available in manual (one for sale atm - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304276736918 ) so it wouldn't be just a case of them registering it late, it was made as a proper facelift. 

Yea, it is annoying.

 

[Linas.P]

52 minutes ago, H3XME said:

My bad, my 2008 was just an SE, not SE-I. 

I agree, the "Sport/SR" trims should have something to be more "sporty" but in reality it had nothing to my knowledge. If anything it was basically a sport model. SR had the lip kit and spoiler at least. My '06 sport has nothing. It's like a base spec car. 

No, there was a handful of early facelifts available in manual (one for sale atm - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304276736918 ) so it wouldn't be just a case of them registering it late, it was made as a proper facelift. 

Yea, it is annoying.

 

I did check before saying it and this is the car I found as well. 

Note - this one is likely SE, it is 100% not SE-L (lacks wood trim) and I doubt it is SE-i either (at first I thought so because of sat-nav), but SE-i had Xenon Lights and this one clearly has halogens (lacking washers). So I suspect it is just 2009 model year SE registered in 2010.

That said - your right, it is a proper 2009 FL car, L-Finesse rear lights and indicators on the mirrors.