Is the ES too cheap

[Mincey]

4 hours ago, GMB said:

Ford scorpio ugly. Made in Germany just like the new fugly BMWs

The passing of time hasn't made it any more appealing that it was back in the 90's. And it wasn't very appealing then. I'd love to know how intoxicated the manager who signed the design off was. My boss had one and instead of letting me drive a hired Escort (steady!) from Peterborough to Stoke, he lent me his metallic orangey/red/awful Scorpio. I'd rather have walked.

[e-yes]

5 hours ago, GMB said:

Lucid Air sapphire beautiful? And they are not even chinese. They are from Arizona designed in California. I want one.

Ford scorpio ugly. Made in Germany just like the new fugly BMWs

Love the Lucid. Its surprising they have already launched and discontinued the 1111hp model !

[HotSpur-Lexus]

I have a current model 5er (M5) and a current model ES (300h) - both are pre-facelift, it is my first Lexus, but I have had over 60 BMW's and 30 Mercedes - Simply all 3 make great cars.

Is one better than the other - depends on your usage scenario and expectations.

 

[LenT]

23 minutes ago, HotSpur-Lexus said:

but I have had over 60 BMW's and 30 Mercedes - Simply all 3 make great cars.

So…you’ve never found time for an Audi then?  😊

[dutchie01]

1 hour ago, HotSpur-Lexus said:

I have a current model 5er (M5) and a current model ES (300h) - both are pre-facelift, it is my first Lexus, but I have had over 60 BMW's and 30 Mercedes - Simply all 3 make great cars.

Is one better than the other - depends on your usage scenario and expectations.

 

You car dealer?

[HotSpur-Lexus]

One Audi (A4)- never again.....but also had 3 VW Passat's and 1 Golf they were good cars

 

Am I a Dealer - No.

[Juicedrinker]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:46 AM, Dippo said:

You never owned a Scorpio then!

Or what about a Fiat Multipla!!!!!!!!  When I worked for Guinness GB years ago I could not believe with all the vehicles that were available for Sales and Technicians from the fleet company a muppet in the sales team actually ordered one of these as his company vehicle thinking it was really cool and 'funky'.  He regretted it at every Regional meeting thereafter😂! 

[johnno]

On 8/10/2023 at 1:23 PM, rayaans said:

Linas...

When are you going to learn that no one wants to read through pages of your drivel and couldn't care less what you think.

You're the only person who comes on this forum to write essays on slagging off Lexus vehicles and making comparisons without actually owning or driving them.

Your opinions are of your own, and my opinions are my own, hence why I am making it clear that your opinions are rubbish, absolute hogwash and a load of complete and utter nonsense the majority of the time with no real basis to them apart from copy and pasting car reviews.

I think it's genuinely time you give up this forum and go find yourself a BMW, join the BMW forums, at which point you may take comfort in the fact the people on there might be more interested in the appendage measuring contest you seem to engage in.

Well said rayaans. I have withdrawn from contributing to these forums for a couple of years following a relentless, ignorant and know-it-all diatribe from this person. 

[Shahpor]

6 hours ago, johnno said:

Well said rayaans. I have withdrawn from contributing to these forums for a couple of years following a relentless, ignorant and know-it-all diatribe from this person. 

Can I ask why you would do that when you can simply use the ignore feature to not see Linas's posts anymore?

Since I am sure none of us want to lose any members on here over this sort of thing, I would assume that the ignore function is there to prevent this exact response?

[PRT68]

I invoked the ignore function a couple of years ago, bliss.......

[johnno]

11 hours ago, Shahpor said:

Can I ask why you would do that when you can simply use the ignore feature to not see Linas's posts anymore?

Since I am sure none of us want to lose any members on here over this sort of thing, I would assume that the ignore function is there to prevent this exact response?

Didn’t know there is an ignore function or how it works?

[LenT]

19 hours ago, johnno said:

Well said rayaans. I have withdrawn from contributing to these forums for a couple of years following a relentless, ignorant and know-it-all diatribe from this person. 

But surely all that achieved, John, was that the LOC was deprived of the value of your contributions.  Or am I missing something?

To reflect the original topic, if your personal opinion or experience was that the ES was too cheap/ expensive/ fast/ slow/ big etc then someone will find it of interest.  If it’s an opinion based, say, on your subjective experience, it’s less likely that a contrary view will change yours. 

But that doesn‘t mean it mustn’t be expressed.  

Personally, I’ve often found that I may learn more from someone with whom I disagree - mainly because it’s so much easier to agree than to make the effort to investigate a subject more deeply.

As for the ‘Ignore Function’….why?

How hard can it be NOT to read a Post?  And surely if that Post is hidden from you, then those that comment on it may not make very much sense.

When this thread started, I found it interesting to read the often opposing views about the ES, having already determined that it wasn’t for me.

But it’s a subject that some seem to find hard to keep in perspective.  In the great scheme of things, being faced with different opinions about a car doesn’t strike me as one of the greatest personal challenges in Life.  

[johnno]

1 hour ago, LenT said:

But surely all that achieved, John, was that the LOC was deprived of the value of your contributions.  Or am I missing something?

To reflect the original topic, if your personal opinion or experience was that the ES was too cheap/ expensive/ fast/ slow/ big etc then someone will find it of interest.  If it’s an opinion based, say, on your subjective experience, it’s less likely that a contrary view will change yours. 

But that doesn‘t mean it mustn’t be expressed.  

Personally, I’ve often found that I may learn more from someone with whom I disagree - mainly because it’s so much easier to agree than to make the effort to investigate a subject more deeply.

As for the ‘Ignore Function’….why?

How hard can it be NOT to read a Post?  And surely if that Post is hidden from you, then those that comment on it may not make very much sense.

When this thread started, I found it interesting to read the often opposing views about the ES, having already determined that it wasn’t for me.

But it’s a subject that some seem to find hard to keep in perspective.  In the great scheme of things, being faced with different opinions about a car doesn’t strike me as one of the greatest personal challenges in Life.  

Then I guess you haven't been subjected to one of the high-minded essays dismantling the views of others as if they were back in primary school (myself unfortunately included). I am an engineer with 50+ years experience of car ownership and joined an owners club to learn more and to discuss common interests with others, not to be lectured to by bigots.  

[LenT]

40 minutes ago, johnno said:

Then I guess you haven't been subjected to one of the high-minded essays dismantling the views of others as if they were back in primary school

Actually, John, I have!  

Not about matters Lexus, about which almost everyone here will know more than I do.  But about such diversionary tactics as conspiracy theorists citing misinformation about vaccines instead of discussing Lexus cars.

Arguably opinion that might have a more serious effect on Members than whose car is better!

But the best one can do is provide the supporting evidence and the reader has to make their judgement.  If others have to resort to personal invective or patronising dismissal instead of logic and reason, then their argument is already lost.

Those are the Posts I read - and then active my built-in ‘Ignore Function’. 😊

 

[Shahpor]

If you hover your mouse over the persons name, the function appears:

 

Although I am with Len on this one as threads might look a little strange when posts are unable to be viewed, but if it works for you then that is a good thing.

[johnno]

2 hours ago, LenT said:

Actually, John, I have!  

Not about matters Lexus, about which almost everyone here will know more than I do.  But about such diversionary tactics as conspiracy theorists citing misinformation about vaccines instead of discussing Lexus cars.

Arguably opinion that might have a more serious effect on Members than whose car is better!

But the best one can do is provide the supporting evidence and the reader has to make their judgement.  If others have to resort to personal invective or patronising dismissal instead of logic and reason, then their argument is already lost.

Those are the Posts I read - and then active my built-in ‘Ignore Function’. 😊

 

Thanks Len

[johnno]

2 hours ago, Shahpor said:

If you hover your mouse over the persons name, the function appears:

 

Although I am with Len on this one as threads might look a little strange when posts are unable to be viewed, but if it works for you then that is a good thing.

Thanks for the information Shahpor, very useful.

[Shahpor]

5 hours ago, johnno said:

Thanks for the information Shahpor, very useful.

No worries, hope it helps 👍

[Tonyw]

I think we need to revisit the competition at this price range. To understand perceived value.

what else available under the magic £40k is big, safe, efficient, reliable and highly specced. We have all the safety and semi autonomous toys as standard, heated seats, wheel which can be remotely started (on newer cars) sunroof which is small but included. A descent sounding basic stereo, wireless charging and connected infotainment, choice of colour inside and out at the same price and loads of other standard features that take the competition over £40k.

Looking at Comcar 

ES premium is listed at £40k as we know, I am looking at £35-40k

Alternate (similar type of car, not mpv etc)

Audi A4 35 Sline, similar performance, much lower standard spec and terrible ride.

Audi A3 45, nice and quick but much smaller and completely different car

Merc CLA or A class saloon 180 AMG, nice smaller car, no C class at the price, let alone an E class

BMW 320 Sport, class leader in driving but poor spec and poor resale value and poor image

Golf GtI, completely different car type, but worth noting as a great option

Genesis, interesting option, but unknown resale and dealer network, not many people have heard of them

Skodas, Superb is a good high spec alternative, but hasn’t got the brand value, future resale value and would you rather have a Skoda or a Lexus if given the option and the same amount of cash or PCP?

Jaguars, I had an XF previous and loved it, but they have stopped making all saloons, and build quality is poor

Honda Civic, same price, high spec, great new hybrid engine, similar build quality, much smaller and even harder to sell the idea to other people when explaining why you chose it over other options

Mazda 6, was actually quite a good car, with similar high spec and quality, I drove one for 2yrs, now cancelled 

Alfa Guilia, pretty, fast, great car, but now gotten too expensive

Pug 508, nice looking, small engine only (1.2) same argument as Skoda
 

So, yes, you can go faster or round corners better, some have better fuel economy, but I can’t see anything that offers better long term value.

 

 

[Mincey]

20 minutes ago, Tonyw said:

I think we need to revisit the competition at this price range. To understand perceived value.

what else available under the magic £40k is big, safe, efficient, reliable and highly specced. We have all the safety and semi autonomous toys as standard, heated seats, wheel which can be remotely started (on newer cars) sunroof which is small but included. A descent sounding basic stereo, wireless charging and connected infotainment, choice of colour inside and out at the same price and loads of other standard features that take the competition over £40k.

Looking at Comcar 

ES premium is listed at £40k as we know, I am looking at £35-40k

Alternate (similar type of car, not mpv etc)

Audi A4 35 Sline, similar performance, much lower standard spec and terrible ride.

Audi A3 45, nice and quick but much smaller and completely different car

Merc CLA or A class saloon 180 AMG, nice smaller car, no C class at the price, let alone an E class

BMW 320 Sport, class leader in driving but poor spec and poor resale value and poor image

Golf GtI, completely different car type, but worth noting as a great option

Genesis, interesting option, but unknown resale and dealer network, not many people have heard of them

Skodas, Superb is a good high spec alternative, but hasn’t got the brand value, future resale value and would you rather have a Skoda or a Lexus if given the option and the same amount of cash or PCP?

Jaguars, I had an XF previous and loved it, but they have stopped making all saloons, and build quality is poor

Honda Civic, same price, high spec, great new hybrid engine, similar build quality, much smaller and even harder to sell the idea to other people when explaining why you chose it over other options

Mazda 6, was actually quite a good car, with similar high spec and quality, I drove one for 2yrs, now cancelled 

Alfa Guilia, pretty, fast, great car, but now gotten too expensive

Pug 508, nice looking, small engine only (1.2) same argument as Skoda
 

So, yes, you can go faster or round corners better, some have better fuel economy, but I can’t see anything that offers better long term value.

 

 

A colleague took me out in his '19 320d yesterday. Seeing the dash alone would have made me flee the showroom. It rattled, was very uncomfortable and certainly was nowhere as quiet as the ES. 

[Mincey]

Meant to change the above to say it was an M Sport but hit quote instead of edit. D'oh...

[Cs150]

Been taken out in BMWs recently one was 2018 the other 2020 both 3 series and as a passenger felt very mediocre indeed. Rattles evident and certainly not smooth probably related to the harsh diesel power delivery. Does not provide a solid feel when it comes to build quality. The Mondeo was driving until last year actually felt a better screwed together vehicle. If this is what a status symbol is then really people can keep it and enjoy their status. Additionally If this is what the motoring press feel is the best they are certainly living in a parallel universe. 

[Dippo]

4 hours ago, Tonyw said:

I think we need to revisit the competition at this price range. To understand perceived value.

what else available under the magic £40k is big, safe, efficient, reliable and highly specced. We have all the safety and semi autonomous toys as standard, heated seats, wheel which can be remotely started (on newer cars) sunroof which is small but included. A descent sounding basic stereo, wireless charging and connected infotainment, choice of colour inside and out at the same price and loads of other standard features that take the competition over £40k.

Looking at Comcar 

ES premium is listed at £40k as we know, I am looking at £35-40k

Alternate (similar type of car, not mpv etc)

Audi A4 35 Sline, similar performance, much lower standard spec and terrible ride.

Audi A3 45, nice and quick but much smaller and completely different car

Merc CLA or A class saloon 180 AMG, nice smaller car, no C class at the price, let alone an E class

BMW 320 Sport, class leader in driving but poor spec and poor resale value and poor image

Golf GtI, completely different car type, but worth noting as a great option

Genesis, interesting option, but unknown resale and dealer network, not many people have heard of them

Skodas, Superb is a good high spec alternative, but hasn’t got the brand value, future resale value and would you rather have a Skoda or a Lexus if given the option and the same amount of cash or PCP?

Jaguars, I had an XF previous and loved it, but they have stopped making all saloons, and build quality is poor

Honda Civic, same price, high spec, great new hybrid engine, similar build quality, much smaller and even harder to sell the idea to other people when explaining why you chose it over other options

Mazda 6, was actually quite a good car, with similar high spec and quality, I drove one for 2yrs, now cancelled 

Alfa Guilia, pretty, fast, great car, but now gotten too expensive

Pug 508, nice looking, small engine only (1.2) same argument as Skoda
 

So, yes, you can go faster or round corners better, some have better fuel economy, but I can’t see anything that offers better long term value.

 

 

This shows that the original question may be right - the ES is too cheap! 

 

I think Lexus are causing the problem by holding the Premium Edition below the £40K VED break point. When I ordered mine in February 2022, the price difference between the Premium Edition  and the Premium Pack was £4,500. Today it's £8,000.