Is the ES too cheap

[rayaans]

28 minutes ago, serbarry said:

So you assume that I am a stupid who likes Lina's comments because they have no basis or substance to them. According to you I am a superficial and dumb person who likes reading his comments which according to you have no basis. In every single comments Lina's wrote, he gave solid reasons and detailed information. Your reply is always irritated, upset, bothered because his comments are negative about the ES or Lexus in general. I haven't read a single reply with solid basis so my question is again the same: why do you care about his comments? As explained above if you think that your car is wonderful it doesn't mean that it is for everyone and I really find it childish to be upset because one person, and only one in this forum, doesn't congratulate you for your amazing car and instead criticizes it. Can't you really accept that one person doesn't like it? Ok so accept my congratulations and forget about Lina's: I still think that ES is wonderful and I am not joking: I find it very attractive from the exterior but the interior I can't tell you because I saw it only once in Paris in 2018 as said above. Anyway I remember that I was impressed and sent pictures to my friends saying that maybe when I will retire I could buy one. Each time I went to Lexus Cork I always had a look at the ES parked there because especially after Lina's comments, I always hoped to be able to see the interior and understand why Lina's comments are so negative. Unfortunately all ES were locked. So my only memories of the interior are back to 2018 when, I must remind you, my comparison was my Prius. And when back in 2004 I was lucky enough to have a brand new Prius as loan for a week from the local dealer in Italy, everyone of my friends was astonished by the interior of the Prius, the materials quality, the ultra comfortable seats and especially the touch MFD with the image of the battery charging and discharging and changing colour and the flows describing the HSD system. If I am not wrong at that time, the Prius was the first ever car on the market with a touch MFD and for sure with that colourful screen. Unfortunately all my friends told me that it had a wonderful interior design but it was ugly outside and that for that price they would have bought a Mini (which was very popular and trendy in 2004 in Italy). And you know what? I could not care less about my friends' opinions nor I was offended or bothered by their opinions. And I said to myself that if one day I would find an affordable second hand Prius I would have bought it (I could not afford brand new). And indeed I moved to Ireland in 2007 and in 2010, when my 1994 Civic coupé died, (so please pay attention: my comparison with the Prius was my 1994 Civic coupé), I found a 2004 Prius and my dream came true. In 12 wonderful years of ownership I have loved it every single day and still now I think it was my best car ever, even better than the GS which, in nearly 2 years of ownership, has already costed me 2,800 euros for servicing and repairs. Now I ask you: do you agree with me that my 2004 Prius was an amazing car with a wonderful interior? You don't? I am sorry but you are WRONG!!!! Because you have not owned a Prius for 12 years and therefore, you can't judge my Prius because as you said only the owners can judge their cars. The same as according to you Lina's can't judge the ES because he doesn't own it, but, if he had a positive opinion about the ES, it would not matter if he doesn't own one because you would be the happiest child in the world because one more person likes your toy.

PS this forum is just so boring when you can only congratulate each other for the cars you bought and insult someone who criticises them.

I'm not going to read the essay you've written.

Like an uneducated child trying to win an argument by blabbering on and on

[serbarry]

6 minutes ago, rayaans said:

I'm not going to read the essay you've written.

Like an uneducated child trying to win an argument by blabbering on and on

You have no arguments, no basis. You saying I am an uneducated child but you didn't even read what I wrote so you can't judge if I am blabbering. You just insult me and Lina's because he doesn't like your car and I like his comments. So who is the child? I let others to judge.

[rayaans]

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

You are fool is you think I have posted one off MPG of the car which I drove for 10-20 miles. 

What basis does you criticism has? Isn't it hypocrisy to say that without providing any basis yourself? It is irrelevant that somebody owned the car, ownership is not a proof of knowledge, I know many people who owned car for 6 years and the only thing they can tell is that it was "red and some sort of korean car", but according to you they are experts? And so what that my comments are critical (should not be confused with negative) towards Lexus and so what that it has been for number of years. What exactly has changed since 2006 when Lexus decided not to introduce IS350 in UK (which is great car), what has change since 2016 when they did the same with RC350, nothing has changed all the way to this day?.. Have they made any significant change to their strategy which would be positive from my perspective? No they have not, so why would I suddenly be positive about something... they continue to sells same cars I continue to criticise them? What is so surprising here?

You just contradicted yourself twice in single sentence - "No one said you have to like the cars, No one said you have to even own the cars" YET "you really need to shut up and stop providing useless negative opinions of vehicles you haven't owned"... so which one is it, should I own the car and only speak positively about it, or I don't need to own or like the car and can say whatever I think about it?!

I can predict your answer here - "if Lexus strategy is so bad, and if you are so unsatisfied with the cars they are releasing then don't be on the LOC". Is that is what you want to say?! So the answer is the same as it has always been - it is not your business, not your problem and I will continue to be here as long as I want and I will be as critical as I want. Deal with it... 

And if you have come to conclusion that I am troll and keyboard warrior, then why you even arguing - isn't that in wain?! And if I come to terms that is who I am, what difference does it make - I will just continue trolling you. Get that ignore function set-up and take a rest. 

Finally, I still think it is kind of funny that you think you know something about me that even I don't know, you know what cars I have driven and for how long... you really a very gifted person... perhaps you need to buy a magic orb, a spooky tent and tell the people their future, such abilities should not go to waste!

You don't own an IS300h. I've owned one for over 6 years. I can categorically and confidently say that my experience and assessment of the vehicle is superior to yours. I can also confidently say Stevens assessment of his ES300h is better than yours. Your claims are naturally ridiculous and inaccurate as a result. 

My point is that you're acting like a butt hurt baby on every single post you make and it drags on and on and on. When I say you don't have to own them, I literally mean don't own them, don't drive them and ***** off. I love how you slag off basically every Lexus yet you don't buy the "superior" competition. You've had a long time to get yourself a BMW!

Let's not forget you spent about 3 years claiming how superior your IS250 was to then IS300h owners. 

Give your opinion, move on. Stop dragging it out like you're going to brainwash current owners into thinking their car is inferior to something else on the market in literally every thread that asks for any kind of opinion. Most prospective owners want opinions from current owners, not someone who doesn't even own the car yet tries to be the expert.

[Linas.P]

3 minutes ago, rayaans said:

You don't own an IS300h. I've owned one for over 6 years. I can categorically and confidently say that my experience and assessment of the vehicle is superior to yours. I can also confidently say Stevens assessment of his ES300h is better than yours. Your claims are naturally ridiculous and inaccurate as a result. 

My point is that you're acting like a butt hurt baby on every single post you make and it drags on and on and on. When I say you don't have to own them, I literally mean don't own them, don't drive them and ***** off. I love how you slag off basically every Lexus yet you don't buy the "superior" competition. You've had a long time to get yourself a BMW!

Let's not forget you spent about 3 years claiming how superior your IS250 was to then IS300h owners. 

Give your opinion, move on. Stop dragging it out like you're going to brainwash current owners into thinking their car is inferior to something else on the market in literally every thread that asks for any kind of opinion. Most prospective owners want opinions from current owners, not someone who doesn't even own the car yet tries to be the expert.

Accuses somebody of acting like "butt hurt" baby... whilst being the only one who acts like butt hurt baby at the moment... 

[rayaans]

3 minutes ago, serbarry said:

You have no arguments, no basis. You saying I am an uneducated child but you didn't even read what I wrote so you can't judge if I am blabbering. You just insult me and Lina's because he doesn't like your car and I like his comments. So who is the child? I let others to judge.

The basis of the argument is quite simple. Linas makes a lot of claims and doesn't / hasn't owned any of these cars, seems to have driven every car in existence whilst making "expert" reviews along with basically slagging off the whole Lexus lineup, yet still drives a Lexus. That's hippocrisy. 

Linas has been around here a long time. We all know he can't make a positive comment and writes a dissertation in most posts he as a way to try and justify himself to actual owners

[rayaans]

Just now, Linas.P said:

Accuses somebody of acting like "butt hurt" baby... whilst being the only one who acts like butt hurt baby at the moment... 

I'm just saying it exactly how it is. 

[Bounce75]

This has been an interesting topic to follow.

 

I don't necessarily agree with all the comments made by Linas, but he is entitled to his opinion & some of what he is saying is true.

Some of his comments though you do have to take with a pinch of salt, but it does make for interesting reading none the less.

I love my Is300h & I know Linas has a dislike for them, but I am the one who owns it & that is all that matters to me.

As for the ES, I have only sat in one at the dealers so cannot really comment about how good or bad they are, all I know is that I wouldn't buy one because of their size.

 

[Cs150]

Honestly what is there to argue about the ES is a big comfy barge that can be purchased new for £32/33k. That is of course the Premium Edition if you haggle hard. It is a large amount of car for the money with a potential decade long warranty if you keep up the servicing. Let people look down on it all opinions are subjective.... 

[serbarry]

11 minutes ago, rayaans said:

You don't own an IS300h. I've owned one for over 6 years. I can categorically and confidently say that my experience and assessment of the vehicle is superior to yours. I can also confidently say Stevens assessment of his ES300h is better than yours. Your claims are naturally ridiculous and inaccurate as a result. 

My point is that you're acting like a butt hurt baby on every single post you make and it drags on and on and on. When I say you don't have to own them, I literally mean don't own them, don't drive them and ***** off. I love how you slag off basically every Lexus yet you don't buy the "superior" competition. You've had a long time to get yourself a BMW!

Let's not forget you spent about 3 years claiming how superior your IS250 was to then IS300h owners. 

Give your opinion, move on. Stop dragging it out like you're going to brainwash current owners into thinking their car is inferior to something else on the market in literally every thread that asks for any kind of opinion. Most prospective owners want opinions from current owners, not someone who doesn't even own the car yet tries to be the expert.

But seriously?? I am astonished! Why don't you ask the moderators to put in terms and conditions that only positive and flattering comments about Lexus models are allowed here?

[serbarry]

7 minutes ago, Bounce75 said:

This has been an interesting topic to follow.

 

I don't necessarily agree with all the comments made by Linas, but he is entitled to his opinion & some of what he is saying is true.

Some of his comments though you do have to take with a pinch of salt, but it does make for interesting reading none the less.

I love my Is300h & I know Linas has a dislike for them, but I am the one who owns it & that is all that matters to me.

 

 

And it's exactly what I have been trying to say in my comments: you are happy with your car, so why is important if someone doesn't like it! I can't believe what I am reading. It reminds me of children arguing who has the best toy.

[rayaans]

2 minutes ago, serbarry said:

But seriously?? I am astonished! Why don't you ask the moderators to put in terms and conditions that only positive and flattering comments about Lexus models are allowed here?

What's so astonishing?

Opinions are fine but how many forums do you go on where an owner slags off every, single car in the whole line up? 

Most Lexus IS owners are annoyed it wasn't brought to the UK for example but literally all I have read for 3 years from Linas is nothing but ****.

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, rayaans said:

The basis of the argument is quite simple. Linas makes a lot of claims and doesn't / hasn't owned any of these cars, seems to have driven every car in existence whilst making "expert" reviews along with basically slagging off the whole Lexus lineup, yet still drives a Lexus. That's hippocrisy. 

Linas has been around here a long time. We all know he can't make a positive comment and writes a dissertation in most posts he as a way to try and justify himself to actual owners

Actual owners means nothing, how many times we have to repeat this! If you have own the car and love it - more power to you, but you can't shut other people-up who have different opinion.

You have to calm down, stop attacking random people and calling everyone stupid - you are the only one out of order here!

 

[rayaans]

1 minute ago, serbarry said:

And it's exactly what I have been trying to say in my comments: you are happy with your car, so why is important if someone doesn't like it! I can't believe what I am reading. It reminds me of children arguing who has the best toy.

Some toys are better than others....

Linas thinks his is better than everyone else's all the time 🤣

[Shahpor]

Steve is right, this thread has been somewhat interesting to follow.

@rayaans, I hate to say it, but you are coming off as somewhat petulant.  Linas is entitled to his opinion and I haven't read anything on this thread that I would consider going too far.

For what it's worth, I consider myself Pro-Linas on this forum as I do find his posts quite engaging.  Also, he is right in that it would be a boring place if everyone just agreed with each other on everything.

Having said that, arguments are never fun, so I certainly don't encourage them!

Lastly, can I say that there is a grain of truth in the idea that owners are inherently bias towards their cars since no one likes have their choices questioned.  So, should this be the case, it will always be difficult for someone to have a negative view on them but that doesn't mean it shouldn't necessarily happen.  In this example, comparisons to BMW's and other manufacturers are perfectly justifiable reasons why the ES hasn't sold too well, as per the original post's question.  That in itself shouldn't be a problem, but when the comparison raises some questions about the ES as a car generally, things tend to start to get out of hand.  Should this be the case?  No, of course not.  Does it happen often?  Yes.

Basically, you can have differences of opinions - for whatever reason! - on these things or you can bury your head in the sand and pretend that all Lexus cars are perfect.

[serbarry]

2 minutes ago, rayaans said:

What's so astonishing?

Opinions are fine but how many forums do you go on where an owner slags off every, single car in the whole line up? 

Most Lexus IS owners are annoyed it wasn't brought to the UK for example but literally all I have read for 3 years from Linas is nothing but ****.

Are you Mr Lexus? Do you own the Lexus brand and Lina's is offending your products? You are taking it too personal. Relax. It's just one negative voice out of many positive ones. Why do you care?

[rayaans]

1 minute ago, Linas.P said:

Actual owners means nothing, how many times we have to repeat this! If you have own the car and love it - more power to you, but you can't shut other people-up who have different opinion.

You have to calm down, stop attacking random people and calling everyone stupid - you are the only one out of order here!

 

Who's been shut up. You've been going on here for a few years haven't you?

I don't own a BMW 5er or an ES. But I don't go around saying my expertise on those two vehicles is superior to current owners.

Linas honestly you need to learn to give your opinion once and let it be rather than stating the same old Lexus sucks drivel on every thread you enter.

[rayaans]

1 minute ago, serbarry said:

Are you Mr Lexus? Do you own the Lexus brand and Lina's is offending your products? You are taking it too personal. Relax. It's just one negative voice out of many positive ones. Why do you care?

There's nothing personal here. I could ask you the same thing, why do you care?

[Linas.P]

4 minutes ago, rayaans said:

Who's been shut up. You've been going on here for a few years haven't you?

I don't own a BMW 5er or an ES. But I don't go around saying my expertise on those two vehicles is superior to current owners.

Linas honestly you need to learn to give your opinion once and let it be rather than stating the same old Lexus sucks drivel on every thread you enter.

And will be on threads for many more years, so you will have to find the way to cope with it... that is just reality.

And you do you, if you don't want to discuss cars, don't discuss them, if you don't want to offend others don't offend them, be as careful as you want - it is up to you. 

I have given my opinion, somebody said something contrary to that and we are discussing it, don't be butt hurt baby... if anything it seems you are more hurt than most ES owners here.

Or you suggesting I am limited to one post per thread and if somebody quotes, or metions me I have no right to responding? 

[rayaans]

Just now, Linas.P said:

And will be on threads for many more years, so you will have to find the way to cope with it... that is just reality.

And you do you, if you don't want to discuss cars, don't discuss them, if you don't want to offend others don't offend them, be as careful as you want - it is up to you. 

I have given my opinion, somebody said contrary to that and we are discussing it, don't be butt hurt baby... if anything it seems you are more hurt than most ES owners here.

And you'll have to cope with me. 

I disagree with your opinions, I believe most of the time they're rubbish, unhelpful and I'll call you up on them. Again, you can't stop me from doing that either. 

[LenT]

11 minutes ago, Bounce75 said:

As for the ES, I have only sat in one at the dealers so cannot really comment about how good or bad they are, all I know is that I wouldn't buy one because of their size.

While my car was being serviced, the Sales Rep.took myself and another customer on a tour of the parking lot, trying to interest us in a couple of ES.  We both had the same reaction as yourself, to his disappointment.

Obviously, size being the main problem, our reaction wouldn’t have been confined to a Lexus.  But I did get the impression that the tour was being conducted more in hope than expectation.  

[serbarry]

6 minutes ago, rayaans said:

There's nothing personal here. I could ask you the same thing, why do you care?

Am I offended because Lina's criticises Lexus? No. And indeed I don't care about Lina's criticism towards lexus models, but you do. You are bothered. 

[Linas.P]

2 minutes ago, rayaans said:

And you'll have to cope with me. 

I disagree with your opinions, I believe most of the time they're rubbish, unhelpful and I'll call you up on them. Again, you can't stop me from doing that either. 

I am copping with you perfectly well. I have no issues with your opinion - it wasn't me coming out of blue, not contributing anything to the tread just to say that you are stupid and childish and have to leave LOC. Was I?

[rayaans]

1 minute ago, serbarry said:

Am I offended because Lina's criticises Lexus? No. And indeed I don't care about Lina's criticism towards lexus models, but you do. You are bothered. 

 

3 minutes ago, Linas.P said:

I am copping with you perfectly well. I have no issues with your opinion - it wasn't me coming out of blue, not contributing anything to the tread just to say that you are stupid and childish and have to leave LOC. Was I?

My response was evoked by the fact you simply have no balanced arguments. All negatives all the time. Atleast the forum would be more enjoyable if you said something vaguely balanced rather than constant negative drivel

[george72]

I am at a loss to why this thread has descended into what it has. This is the second es that I have owned and I don't have any regrets at all. It's comfortable, reliable, has the tech and safety equipment that are important to me. 

This said, I am absolutely aware of all it's limitations and totally concur with linas that the es300h feels a little down market compared to a bmw  5 series. And before people react I can verify that my previous cars before my last 2 es300h we bmws. 

But times change, priorities change and now the es300h is absolutely right for me. And yes it's a compromise but I cannot question the value for money that this represents. I for one will not be returning to bmw ownership anytime soon. 

[LenT]

23 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Lastly, can I say that there is a grain of truth in the idea that owners are inherently bias towards their cars since no one likes have their choices questioned.  So, should this be the case, it will always be difficult for someone to have a negative view on them but that doesn't mean it shouldn't necessarily happen. 

You’re right to bring this point up again, Shapor, because it is a characteristic that crops up in many human activities.  If one invests a significant amount of time, money and conviction into a subject, it can then be very hard to be dispassionate about it.

This of course suggests that ownership per se may not be such a reliable judge of quality as might be hoped.  That’s certainly the reasoning that keeps the motoring journalist in business!